Topic: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie

[RickB]

Hi guys, long time reader, first time post.

I'm 25, live in Melbourne, Australia. Doug inspired me to have a crack at building a bike. I'll be honest, I don't know a whole lot about mechanicals, certainly nothing serious about bikes. I've always been a bit of a computer nerd. Anyway, I figured I'd have a go at building a cafe racer inspired CB400 Four on a budget.





Here it is. Not much to look at. I'll be honest, I bought this bike unseen from South Australia for $1000 AUD. It was a gamble. However it all seems to be there in one way or another, even if it has some rust and holes in it. It doesn't drip anything.



I haven't been able to get it started. I'm not sure about it. There's a lot of superficial rust, a good size hole in the 4-into-1 collector, the muffler is toast, the seat busted, the battery was missing, the forks have some rust pitting, some of the spokes aren't great and the tank has some bog in it and is dinged up. The electric start is broken. The highlight doesn't work but the front indicators do. The rear aren't connected. The headlight bucket is cracked, as is one of the gauge buckets. The gears seem to select. The brakes function but won't stop the bike in a hurry. The chain and sprocket appear ok if a little rusted. The kick start is loose, as is the foot brake.







I cleaned the tank out with some petrol. This is what came out. I wonder how that bug liked petrol fumes?



I pinched a friends battery. Grabbed another friend to help (pictured), then put the tank back on, zip-tied the fuel hose on to the carburetor and fuel tap as it was very loose and started her up. As I said, the electric starter just makes a single click the the power shuts off. However the kick starter got it going fine when I gave it some throttle. It won't idle for long, even with the choke fully on. I might try cleaning the plugs and putting some WD-40 (lubricating oil in a can for those non-Australians) down the throttle cables to loosen them up a bit. With the holes in the header collector it's hard to hear anything specific about how the engine is running. There's plenty of smoke coming out. I'll try the oil.





I didn't bleed it completely, just enough to see if anything obvious fell out. It appeared pretty clear to me.



I don't know anything about engines really. I'm not sure about the compression as I don't have a tester, but the carburetors appear to function and aren't dirty if I take the caps off. I didn't get too stuck into it as I'm taking it to a Honda mechanic a buddy used for his resto CB250 project to get an informed decision before I continue.


Update:

Ok so I put the bike on a trailer and took it around to this Honda mechanic's house. It was a sobering experience. He told me, without really starting it or taking anything off it, that it appears to have a head gasket problem (there was a leak stain he showed me that indicated this apparently), the rims and rubbers will need replacing, so will all the cables, everything will need cleaning or replacing (bolts, cables, guards etc) and thought the rubber connecting the engine to the carburetor (what are they called?) would need replacing. Obviously all the filters need replacing. The entire exhaust system would need to be replaced as it's got hole in it. He even said that the cylinder's would most likely need re-boring (he mentioned that would cost about $250 a cylinder). He said the front forks would need to be rebuilt too. He said he could take a more in depth look at it during the week, but he'd be taking money from me as it's not worth it. He said sell it and look for something that costs a bit more money initially but will require less engine work.

Obviously this is shattering news to me. I had expected to do a whole bunch of cleaning, powder coating and the odd bit of chrome. I knew the headers and muffler would have to be replaced. But an engine rebuild? I was hoping to avoid this so early on in the project. I knew getting a 4 cylinder bike unseen for $1000 AUD would be risky, but I was hoping I'd get away with something I could get good with my own hard work and a lot of cleaning/paint/new parts. Maybe that was naive.

I'm at a crossroads. I really have fallen in love with the CB400 Four and can't imagine anything else, but I haven't seen many come up for sale on the internet in the last few months. Should I sell this and wait for something that might cost a little more up front but won't require so much work to get it running decently? Argh! Decisions!

I'm devastated.

Rick.

[DollarBill]

Try not to be too disappointed.  The engine does run which is better than a lot of us can say when we start this process.  It sounds like you are willing to learn and do a lot of the work yourself which is a good attitude for a project like this.  I would bet you can get it looking and running good for cheaper than what your mechanic quoted and there are tons of guys around here that are always willing to help you get issues sorted out.  There might even be some with parts you need that will either donate them or sell them cheaply.

No matter the condition of the bike when you start it will ALWAYS end up costing more than you thought.  I think you will find that it becomes addicting and tremendously gratifying to build up your own bike.

In my opinion you paid too much for that bike and will be hard pressed to sell it for what you paid for it.  But then again I don't know what the market is like in Australia for the CB400.

I'm a computer nerd too so if I can do it you can do it.  Good luck!

[RickB]

Thanks for the encouraging words Bill.

I'm still not sure what to do. Part of me thinks, 'screw what the mechanic says, I'll just make it work'. But the other part says, 'listen to the man with knowledge and know when too much is too much'. In your experience, should I be scared off using this bike because of the supposed engine problems? Or will it be more than likely a money hole for the life of the bike?

I hear what you're saying about the re-sale value. I'm not sure, but I do know I was looking for quite a while for a CB400 in my city and ended up having to go the next state over to get one. Bike's aren't cheap in Victoria it seems. Still, if I could sell it now, I'm not sure I want to wait however long to find another CB400 Four that'll be in better condition, if I could afford the initial asking price anyway (the reason I got this one is because $1000 was all I had to spend on a bike, I couldn't afford to spend $2500 to get something better even if I had wanted to).

Ah well, these are decisions I'll have to make.

Thanks again,
Rick.

[DollarBill]

Do you know what all your mechanic did to diagnose problems?  Did he check the compression?  Did he take anything apart or did he simply start it and listen to it?

You'll find others on here that have started with NO knowledge at all and have done complete engine rebuilds themselves with help from others on this forum.  Without taking the engine apart it's hard to say what you are in for.  A compression test can tell you a lot about your cylinders and the shape they are in.  If the compression numbers turn out to be good then I wouldn't worry with tearing into the engine right now.  However, if you have leaks you can replace the gaskets which will require opening up the engine but it's a lot better than opening it up and honing cylinder heads and such.  If the transmission seems to shift smoothly through the gears then I would leave that alone as well.  Start with giving the carbs a thorough cleaning and buy a set of carb rebuild kits.

Running WD-40 through the cables might help loosen them up and give you a little more life out of them for now.  If they are serviceable and not a safety hazard then you can use them until you can replace them.  How does the inside of the tank look?  If it's not rusty then you are in good shape even though it is dented.  It's hard to tell how deep the dents are but those could probably be filled with a little Bondo.  That's something you can do yourself too...it's not hard.

The exhaust may be able to be repaired if you know a good welder.  It depends on how rotten they are though.  If you have to replace them then that might be the single most expensive item to get.  Here's a set on eBay for $350 USD.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CB400F-Chrome-Exhaust-4-into-1-all-Years_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem20a66d577cQQitemZ140231137148QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

And here is an original Yoshimura setup offered by one of the members here for $500:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=51927.0

I say go for it!  Like you said you never know when you are going to find another. 

[RickB]

Bill,

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement, it's been so helpful already! I sprayed some WD-40 down the cables and that drained a lot of gunk out. Thanks for the tip. I did a compression test to the best of my knowledge today. The results are below. I doubt my numbers are great (but I don't know what they mean right now) but hopefully a new gasket could improve them.

That mechanic just looked over it. I was standing with him when he was going over it. He didn't start it or really even touch the bike. He said he works in a Honda shop, has owned Honda's for 20 years and was recommended by a friend of mine. So I kind of put a lot of faith in what he said. However, I've been doing a lot of thinking about what you said, and the more I think about it, the more I think I can overcome these problems. If the engine does need to be rebuilt, so be it. I can ride it as it is now and fix the engine when it dies. Or if I get the confidence later in the project, I'll try to fix it myself.

So here's some more shots of the major areas.






Collector is in a bad way. Probably need to replace the whole exhaust system.



This muffler is crap. It's almost falling off and will need to go obviously.



The number 1 header doesn't look great, I'd say with a lot of scrubbing it'd probably break through. Never mind, as I said, the exhaust system is going.





The internals of the tank aren't bad. Obviously the external has had a ding and there's a bit of bondo/bog in it. Again, not a problem as I'd eventually love to put a BCR whale on there if it'll fit a 400 and I can save the money up.





The choke lever is really loose. You can see where I've zip-tied the fuel hose on as it was super loose. The other zip-tie is the other end of the fuel hose connected to the carburetor. This is obviously temporary just to see if it started.





How would I clean the surface of the engine and other aluminum parts? Bead-blast? Sand-blast? Wire-brush and elbow grease? Can I remove the scaling and use a high temperature paint like Doug did for his 550?





Front brake. Needs some attention. As to the spokes. The rim itself seems solid but I'll know for sure when I get the rubber off and see what the insides look like.



Read drum. I need to see what the inside looks like. It functions ok if you push the pedal down hard.



I'm not sure why the chain guard was chopped like that.







Need a new bucket for sure.



The left gauge bucket is dented, the right is ok.





Scary. The rust on the rear fender won't matter as I'll throw that away. I'll need a new seat pan, air filter and rewire it. Strangely, I'm not scared be the electrics as that's one thing I'm confident with because of my computing background.



Ok so today... I went about testing the compression of the cylinders. I borrowed a tester from my local mechanic, took out the spark plugs and held the tester hard up against the hole. Then I gave it a few good kick's of the kick starter and read the measurements. I replaced the spark plug for each cilynder as I moved to the next one. Here was the mode number for each cylinder:

Cylinder 1: 75psi
Cylinder 2: 75psi
Cylinder 3: 50psi
Cylinder 4: 75+psi

Both my Haynes and Clymer manuals are still in the mail from the US, so I'm not sure what this data means. I'm assuming it's not good news.

The number 4 cylinder result (pictured above) actually got  close to100psi on the first kick but not after that. Interestingly enough this number 4 cylinder's spark plug had an extra washer and what looked like some minor threading on it (pictured below). This plug was by far the stiffest to remove.





Number 2 spark plug port. Lots of dirt in there.



Cylinder 3 spark plug. This cylinder had the lowest pressure of the 4 but the plug looked the same as the others.



Ok, today ended a little bit more positive. I got to see my inspiration. My friend Andy's 1971 CB250 restore project. He just got his original side-cover badges re-chromed, so they're yet to go on. Still, it's much prettier than mine!

So I'm taking my bike to another mechanic tomorrow. This guy is a local and of similar age to myself. So I'm not sure if he'll know a lot about old bikes (his little backyard shop had a lot of new bikes in it) but maybe he'll have the motivation to have a crack. He's located just down the road from me, so maybe he won't rip me off. At least I'll have a second opinion.

Once again, I appreciate everyone's input.

Thanks,
Rick.

[aussie]

Howdy ,anything can be fixed/rebuilt but how deep are your pockets?.To get the 400 too look like your mates 250 is going to cost alot.

Just curious, where abouts in SA did you get it from?

[RickB]

Aussie,

Thanks for the response. My pockets aren't deep that's for sure, but what I do have is a lot of time and a will to learn. Plus a lot of friends that can help. Still, that's not going to help with new parts or big jobs like re-boring cylinders.

Yeah Andy put a lot of effort into his bike, and he reckons all up it cost him $5000. But he hasn't put anything on their that didn't come from Honda. I'm no way near as fussy and just want something that looks cool, runs and can be made original easy enough if I wanted to.

But you're right, I need to be realistic about what this will cost. Right now I'm still in the 'should I keep it or sell it' phase. This morning I thought I'd sell it, now I'm thinking I'll keep it. I'll see what this other mechanic thinks and if the engine will run for a while longer, I'll keep it and commit to getting the frame off and starting with a powder coat.

I got the bike from:

Two Wheel Recyclers
6 Samuel Street, Hackham

Based on what the trading post listing and the owner, a guy named Vastra ,said and how the bike actually is, I wouldn't recommend buying from them unless you actually check the bike out first. There was a lot they didn't tell me.

Thanks again,
Rick.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Prioritize your spending.

If you just want a runner, and you don't care so much about cosmetics, focus right now on getting it safe and reliable (brakes, carbs, electrical).  Many of these bikes have weeping head gaskets.  Not pretty, but you may be able to get around to an engine rebuild later if it is cost prohibitive now and the gasket isn't that bad. 

If an overall rebuild is the goal, then tear that sucker down and prepare to spend some money over the next few months.  You can save some money in a variety of ways.  Just look at the project builds here.  Get yourself a Clymer's and take pictures as you take things apart so you know how to reassemble later after you forget.

[Hush]

My bike cost $700 it was in bits and boxes, I kept a running tally of what i spent (money is spent quite slowly as you need bits) and all up I'm at $3500 but I love my bike and know every bolt and wire on her.
Don't give up too soon my Ocker cousin, those wee 400f's are like gold, getting rarer by the day.

[RickB]

Thanks guys, this has already been a great help.

@ Hush: Thanks for the encouragement. To tell you the truth, if I have to spend $3000 over the next few months, and I get to learn about my bike, I'm alright with that. So you've really given me some motivation.

@ CB750 Cafe Racer Fan: Yep, got my Clymers and Haynes in the post. Can't wait to get them. I've found a few wreckers too. So I'm going to go check them out and hopefully find a new exhaust system. If not, get a price for a custom one vs. buying a new one.

I've dropped the bike off at the local mechanic, he seems like a good guy, and I might even be able to build him a website in contra for his labor, so my computer geekness might actually help. Today, things are positive.

[Hush]

Good on you Rick (er great name by the way) getting younger people to appreciate something as rare as these old ladies is quite hard with the modern generation of "plastic rice rockets" but even the most bedeviled owner on here who has had to conquer issues time and again wouldn't trade their old girls for anything.
Just remember that on this forum you have the worlds keenest/madest/best informed/most experienced old Honda fiddlers who like nothing better than to help a struggling fellow enthusiast.

[Joel]

I've got a 400F as well and I love it.  I drove 11 hours each way to pick it up.  Mine won't be pretty for a while because I'm on a tight budget but hopefully it'll be running well enough to safely ride in a few weeks.    Just take it one problem at a time.

[SohRon]

Just keep on smilin', man! It's taken me over three years to afford the rebuild on my bike, just doing what I could here and there, but it adds up, and before you know it, you've got yourself a bike! Take your time, do what you can, and you'll be riding that 400 in no time!

[RickB]

Hi guys,

More bad news today. So I took the bike to that local mechanic. He looked over it yesterday and today. He said he got it running, covered the holes in the exhaust with some rags and said 'he could hear a big end noise'. I've been told that is bad. I said to him, 'well how long until it stops working?', he said 'you could be lucky and it'll last another 6 months but it's getting louder'. He said he doesn't think it'd be worth doing the rest of the bike up with that engine. He said he thought my options were to part the bike, or buy a second hand engine to replace mine.

So, how bad is a 'big end noise', how hard is it to fix on my own, what would it roughly cost to get someone to do it and how much long could I expect the engine to run? I know these are all very dependent on a lot of variables, but I had to ask.

Interestingly enough, I called the guy that sold me the bike and told him that the bike was at the mechanics getting the engine looked at. He said that I shouldn't need to get the engine fixed as it was 'a good runner'. I wonder why he stick to his guns even after he'd sold me the bike? Weird.

A bit sad today.

Rick.

[Hush]

Unless your mechanic is aged over 40 years maybe more, he probably has never ever seen one of these or worked on one.
Most of the really really good Honda mechanics have gone to the big workshop in the sky.
Very few modern mechanics understand these old motors, that big end noise could well be camchain rattle which all these bikes have in some form or other.
OK he also could be right, these 400f's are rare in the lower pacific, you can get the bits to fix it, there are plenty of those, the gearbox is a 6 speed from memory (extremely rare in the Honda SOHC4) actually I think only the 400f has one?!
So you need to make a decision on this, do you want to take her apart and spend some money, wait as your new bits arrive, work on the "cafe" side of the bike while you await engine bits?
Or the alternative, part her out and look for another project?
Depends a lot on your needs and wants, if you need to have a running bike then sell her, if you want to do a cafe and are prepared to wait for bits and ask lots of questions on here then keep her and do a rebuild with your cafe mods.
Don't sweat it too much, someone out there will grab your 400f, it won't go to scrap believe me.
Maybe take some time to think a bit, check the adverts for other bikes (even other makes!) and see if something moves you.
I know a lot of guys on here would love to have your bike in the back of their shed while they dream of how they will ressurect her....you gotta live with your decision so take some time, these bikes have waited 30+ years to be rebuilt, they can wait a bit longer.

[RickB]

Hush, you're awesome!

I'm not tacking anything away from the mechanics skill or anything, but he didn't look much older than 30. Still, I have no reason to doubt him given the state of the bike and the comments made by that first Honda mechanic I saw (he had a beautiful Norton in his garage). But I think you're right, I want the bike, I'll do what I can for the engine but ride it until it dies or fix it if I get the confidence a bit further down the road. At least that's my thinking now. If when I pick the bike up in the next day or two the mechanic has some more stern words for me, maybe I'll consider selling it. But right now, I'm only listening to what I want to hear, and that's 'fix what you can, ride it until it dies then deal with it'.

I loved what you said about the bike waiting 30+ years to be rebuilt. Trouble is, I'm young and impatient. I want to fix it now! 

"If you want to do a cafe and are prepared to wait for bits and ask lots of questions on here then keep her and do a rebuild with your cafe mods"

This is what I'm thinking right now.

Thanks again for the encouragement,
Rick.

[Joel]

"big end noise" is pretty vague.  He wasn't any more specific than that?  Mine seemed loud to me when I was first running it.  I adjusted the valve tappets and cam chain tension according to the manual and it quieted down but it still has a bit of a rattle to it.  It may disappear when I can finally synchronize the carbs or it may be the cam chain tensioner I damaged will just be a bit noisy until I can finally replace it.  Did he do any of that tune-up stuff for you?  If not, give it a try and see if that helps.

[RickB]

Hey guys, time for an update.

So this weekend just gone in Australia was the Queen's Birthday Weekend. It was suppose to be a 3 day weekend where I could get stuck into stripping the bike. As has been the case with this bike so far, it didn't actually turn out that way.



So I spent Friday getting my parents garage (yep, still living with them) organized for the long haul. There's limited space (Dad has a '71 Kamann Ghia cabriolet) that obviously has pride of place. A Mum's not walking outside in the winter to get in her car, so I get the corner.



So my mate Andy and I went about taking bits and pieces off. The goal being to get down to the frame for powder coating. Whilst that is being done I can do the seat, forks, wheels, etc. We started from the back, taking photos of everything and trying to keep the bolts together.





Getting the battery box off was a real pain in the behind. I'm not looking forward to putting that and the mess of wires that attaches to it back together. Surely there's got to be a better way to mount the battery and wires than this hunk of junk?











I got the headers off. I hand a friend sandblast the finned clamp things that hold the header pipes to the engine, and they look brand new. I was pretty excited to see something shine that had come of my bike. However I don't think there's any saving the header pipes themselves. I'm getting some prices on some custom ones to match the originals. I don't like the reproduction ones at davidsilverspares.co.uk and I can't afford the originals. Maybe I'll get something close to originals but cheaper. But perhaps when I factor in chroming etc it might be easier to just get the originals. Unless I paint the replicas I have made matte black until I can afford to chrome them.



I took the rear pegs off (I'll grind off the brackets as I don't think I'll need them). If I want to make my exhaust upswept, do I need to keep the mount for the exhaust or can I cut that off too?





The tiling and skateboard kneepads came in very handy.







I'm going to have to fabricate a new seat. The seat pan on the original is totally shot. However my mate Andy has a spare seat off a CB350, I haven't tested it to see if it fits, but maybe it does and I can start from that. I know what I want to do with my seat, I'm just having a hard time finding a photo of something I can work from. Basically I don't want a fiberglass base or taillight light housing like the BCR seats. I want it all leather but shaped. Kind of like Swan's but a bit smoother. I know this has probably been asked a million times, but does anyone has a good link/tutorial/project on making your own seat from scratch?

Now this is where the trouble started. Serial numbers...



This is complicated. Here I go. When I bought the bike unseen from the next state over, the dealer said that he'd make me up a receipt with the serial number etc and send it out to me. When I got the bike via the shipping company, the address written on the bike was my street address, not my postal address. So I rang the dealer to confirm that he'd sent the receipt and papers to my correct postal address. He said he hadn't had a chance to get the serial number from the bike before the truck had come to pick it up. He asked me to get the serial number off the bike for him and let him know what it was so he could write up a receipt. I thought that was a bit sketchy seeing as he appeared to be from a legitimate dealer and shouldn't he have that on file? Anyway by that stage I'd given the bike over to a mechanic as I mentioned in my earlier posts. Today was the first time I'd had a chance to look at the bike. And guess what? The serial number on the frame is quite obviously ground/filed off. #$%*.

I called the dealer, asking what the history of the bike is because obviously something's not right. He assures me that the bike was a friend of his and it's not dodgy and that he'll track the paperwork down on Tuesday after the long weekend is over. I don't buy that so I called VicRoads (our version of the DMV for the Americans) and start the process of jumping through hoops to try and establish the history of this bike. I have the plate number and an engine number, but no frame number. VicRoads say that because the bike is from South Australia, that I must call the SA Transit people. However VicRoads were amazingly helpful in explaining how the information system works.

I learnt that after a bike is out of registration for 6 years it's details go into archives and are no longer accessible on the national database. You have to go to the specific state and ask them to check their archive. Bikes earlier than 1989 didn't have VIN numbers. Plate numbers can often be used on bike/cars from other states, it isn't a unique number. Engine numbers can be the same, it isn't a unique number.

VicRoads also tell me to contact Consumer Affairs in SA as they believe it is highly likely I was duped and have legislative protection.

So with that knowledge I call SA transit or whatever it's called over there. They were frustratingly difficult to talk to. They had records of the bike, but seeing as I wasn't listed as the owner, they couldn't tell me anything because of privacy concerns. However I did get out of them that the bike isn't listen as stolen, they have the engine number and a serial number (but couldn't give it to me), they hinted that it might not be a 1977 (how can I tell what year it is without the serial?). They suggested I call the South Australian Police Records Response Section. I do.

I am connection to what appears to be a officer in training. She has a heavy Asian accent and I can hear another person behind her coaching her. No problem, I ask the questions to the girl on the phone, and wait for her to relay it to her trainer then listen to the trainers response because I can't understand the heavy accent of the trainee. Anyway the look up the plate number I give them. Surprisingly they correctly read back my engine number. I was encouraged by this. They then say they don't have my frame serial number. I ask for it again, they then say they've found it. I write it down, it doesn't look correct as it doesn't start with CB400F like I was expecting. They tell me it is correct and the bike is not stolen but the bike is listed as owned by someone named McKenzie and perhaps the system hasn't been updated with my details yet (I doubt the dealer even have my details).

So I call back VicRoads buoyed by the details the Police have given me. When I give my serial number to them, they promptly tell me it is for a 2000 Mitsubishi car, not my Honda motorcycle. That is when they explain that plate numbers can me the same in different states.

All this happened late on the Friday afternoon. VicRoads said I should get the bike inspected by someone at my local branch and explain to them my situation. So I'm going to wait and hope that this dealer gives me a proof of purchase (what other paperwork should I have from him?) and take that down to VicRoads, explain that I bought the bike, it doesn't show up as stolen with the SA Transit people of the SA Police, and could I please get a new serial number to stamp into my frame. Until that happens, I'm reluctant to work further on restoring the bike in case they confiscate it from me as stolen property or something similar.

If anyone has stuck with me this far and read all of the above, do you have any advice with filed off frame serial numbers in Victoria? I really hope this is just a red tape thing and not a stolen/wrecked/whatever-else-it-could-be bike.

Rick.

[kghost]

I dunno anything bout ozzie registration or serial numbers....

I have however seen worse restored to glory.

If you can get the paperwork straightened out...

Keep up the good work.

[J.Webster Designs]

get whatever paperwork you need first... as previously stated, i am unfamiliar with what is needed for registration etc.. in OZ. Here in the states, most of the states require a title, and registration in order for the vehicle to be driven and legal. go to the "VicRoads" and ask them what exactly you are going to need in order to register the motorcycle so that it can be driven. they should be able to tell you what paperwork is going to be NEEDED in order for you to drive the bike. make sure that the guy you bought it from can provide that documentation. like you said... hold off on putting money into the bike until you find out if its stolen or not.

[Hush]

Hey young fellah, pleased to see the mechanic didn't scare you off with his initial diagnosis.
You look like you are having fun, take her back to bones and start over, you will not be dissapointed in the result, they always look better built from the ground up.
Your header pipes can be powdercoated, I had a CB650 Custom with them done in black, looked awesome.
That part where they all come together could have plates welded into them if the welder uses gas and is careful, then grind them back to shape, it would be a lot cheaper until you find out about the engine condition anyway.
All the bits once cleaned and painted will fit back in just beautifully, it's amazing how much better they fit when clean and nice to handle.
Sounds like the paperwork is a puzzle, hold out till you find out from the seller about the bike, he is probably bound by some sort of consumer rules about selling dodgy goods so he will make good on his end.
Apart from that you are making a great start, I can see this bike getting finished, it has good bones.

[Brownie]

Hey RickB,,,,,, Don't know how far you are going with the resto/cafe of your bike,, but if you are going to be cutting or adding bits to your frame Vic roads may want you to produce a Engineers Cert...just check with them beforehand.

and my understanding with these Honda fours is,,,,,,, if everything isn't in sync then they tend to Chatter and clang worse than a cage full of monkeys.

so don't be put off too much,and anyway these thing are becoming very sort after Bikes..

[RickB]

Thanks guys,

I spoke to the dealer again today. He's apparently sending me out a receipt. He once again assured me that the bike isn't stolen, it just never had a registered frame number. Why it would be filed down, I do not know. So I should get the paperwork from him on Thursday and I will head down to VicRoads then. Thanks for the tip about the engineer certificate. I'll ask them about that.

I gave my tank and side-covers to a mate that restores old Holden's. He has all the body/painting/sanding equipment. So I have to choose a colour. I see a lot of Honda cafe's in black. I'm not doing that. My friends CB250 is red so I can't do that. I'm going to follow Doug From Idaho's lead and go with a vintage silver. Now I have to find a paint code. I have no idea where to start looking. I want something that is kinda' period correct. But then I'd like it to be metallic with a metallic dark grey pinstripe, like a Norton. Does anyone have any suggestions on finding a good silver? I was thinking of going down to a car dealership and looking for something I like.

Hush, I took the pipes to a exhaust place today. They didn't do custom headers but they did suggest it'd be cheaper to buy new ones than re-build them. I'm going to get some second opinions. 400 UK pounds on davidsilverspares.co.uk for new originals is expensive. Anyone know where I could find them elsewhere? I'd be happy to paint a used set black and re-chrome them later when I can afford it.

I've been selling anything I can on eBay and can't wait to sort this serial number thing out so I can get buying some new parts. I couldn't wait and ordered the Honda/Noton decals from Carpy's. I had to buy something new for the bike, even if it may get repo'ed,

Thanks again guys,
Rick.

[Milkman666]

Hang in there, Rick.

I just had a similar runaround here with the Provincial Ministry of Transportation. I went down there, went home, went back, went somewhere else, went to the dealer for an "appraisal", went home, back to the MOT, where they tell me I need some other bit of paper, went to the PO's place, went home, then back to the MOT and got her registered... simple as that!

Now everything's in order and I can get started on my '75 CB750F.

You've got your work cut out for you there, so just take your time. When you decide to cut something off (like the rear peg brackets), sleep on it first, then look at pictures of other 400F's to see if other owners used/needed the bit you're cutting off.

If you have little experience with engines... this might be the one to start with. They are pretty easy to work on and relatively simple.

Good luck!

[RickB]

@ Milkman666: Yeah I think my paperwork situation just got even harder. However your advice on the cutting/welding thing is sound. I've already changed my mind on so many things. If and when I get to that, I'll be posting some questions here for sure!