Author Topic: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie  (Read 310990 times)

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yozzie

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2009, 11:01:50 am »
Hey RickB,
I can't believe how many times I hear people say they took something to a mechanic and were told it needed a complete rebuild.  This guy didn't even hear it run or drive it or take a compression test and says the engine needs to be rebored?  What is wrong with these guys?  Good for you for going ahead and learning on your own!  Just gives you more experience and knowledge for the next one!

Offline HedNut

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2009, 11:38:45 am »
I like these guys... they have some good stuff for different headlights here...
They're in the U.S.... but may have decent shipping costs??

http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/Index_Main_Frame.htm

Look in Controls, Lighting....  on the left menu

and these guys too...

http://www.cyclexchange.net/Lighting%20Page.htm

I ordered from them and the package was at my door here in Canada in less than a week...amazing.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 11:57:03 am by HedNut »

Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2009, 04:17:04 pm »
Hey guys,

I went to that amazing little english bike store in Melbourne called Modak. The same place where I got the drag bars from. They had the most perfect chrome headlight bucket and fork ears for $150. Exactly what I was looking for and cheaper than I would have gotten on ebay when you factor in shipping. So I'm super stoked. I'll take some photos tomorrow. Together with the bearing kit I bought, I should be able to reassemble my steering column and start thinking about my forks.

Now I'm going to buy some shocks. Of course I'd like Hagon, but they're twice the price of the stock ones and I don't think I really need super high performance shocks.

So I found these 'Red Wing' shocks on eBay. I don't know anything about them, but the guy told me they come with all the mounting hardware (bushings, bolts etc), which is a big plus for me seeing as I need all that stuff. They're about the same price as stock ones I've seen for sale. Does anyone know anything about these Red Wing 'vintage aftermarket' shocks?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250552239085

It says they're suitable for CB400, does that mean they'd be good for my CB400F too?

Thanks again for all the help guys,
Rick.

Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2009, 09:57:11 pm »
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=62099.0

Just saw this post, it's got me scarred. Maybe I just bite the bullet and buy Hagons? Although with my riding experience and intent (no racing, weekend cruising some turns) would I really notice the difference?

Rick.

Offline Hush

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2009, 02:05:18 am »
Bike is really coming along nicely Rick, I've just pulled out my partners' GSX400 main loom and redone it all so I know what you are going through.
Big thing is that there is very little chance of having nasty wiring failures once you redo the whole thing, it's what I did to my 650 as well and the wiring on that is solid.
I'm not sure about the rear shocks, I bought mine last year from David Silver and once I factored in shipping etc it worked out just as cheap as chasing some on Ebay, plus they arrived within a week..not bad coming from Pomgolia eh! ;)
That's gonna be one very purty little CB400F when you finish it, every now and then it's good to think back to all the trials and hassels you have been through to get this far....then stand back and look at how far you have come. ;D
Merry Christmas to you and yours', happy rebuilding............Hush. :)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2009, 03:53:29 am »
@ Hush: Always good to hear from you. Merry Christmas to you too. DSS were out of stock for the shocks I wanted. Not to mention a hell of a lot more expensive than stock shocks on eBay. In the end I just bought the Redwing ones ($120 USD plus $65 USD shipping). I know they're not the best, but if they're better than or equal to stock, then I'm happy. If they truly do suck, I'll upgrade later. I just have to stick to budget for the time being. I really hope the Redwing CB400 shocks (link above) are ok for the CB400F, I'm guessing they will be but if anyone knows, let me know.


Hi guys, some Christmas break photos for you.





Ok so my CB350F tank finally arrived. A day before Christmas too! It's pretty good, only a slight dent/scape on one side, but nothing major or anything that can't be fixed. For the money I paid ($45 plus $70 shipping to Australia from the USA) I'm very happy. The realy good news is that it fits on the CB400F frame perfect. The tank rubbers and rear rubber are perfect. It's hard to tell if the tank looks right size wise in relation to the rest of the bike when it's just the frame. It may look undersized once I put everything back on, but I'm hoping it'll be good as I like the classic shape. It needs a new cap and petcock and maybe a seal. But that'll come later when I repaint it.







This is the elusive headlight bucket! I found it at Modak in downtown Melbourne for $125. I love that place. It's halogen too. They even had the fork ears I wanted for $30. When I factor in shipping, that's cheaper than I would have got from eBay. So I'm a happy camper. I have no idea what brand it is. I'll try and put a visor on it later on too.



I tracked down a place out in Ringwood called Metro Honda or something that stocks All Balls and got a tapered steering bearing kit. It was expensive at $90 when you consider DSS has them for 27 pounds (about $50) but I didn't want to wait and have nothing to do over Christmas. The other boxes contain front and rear wheel bearings and fork seals. You can see the fork ears/heandlight brackets I got. Standard cafe racer type.

Finally, I put in a order at DSS. This order was for frame and front brake components only. I will have to order exhuast and engine (and possibly rims) later when I have the cash. This was about $500 AUD worth anyway, which is all my Christmas money.

Here's what I got:

1 x Brake pad set
1 x Brake pipe - Metal pipe from  Lower hose to caliper
1 x Brake shoe set
1 x Brakelight switch, Rear
2 x Fork dust seal
2 x Fork oil seal retaining clip
2 x Fork tube top bolt
2 x Fuel tank front mounting rubber
1 x Fuel tank rear mounting rubber
1 x Oil filter bolt
1 x Brake caliper piston oil seal
1 x Brake caliper bleed screw
1 x Brake master cylinder repair kit
1 x Swingarm bush
1 x Steering stem top nut washer
1 x Steering stem top nut
2 x Shock absorber upper chrome nut
2 x Shock absorber lower mounting bolt
1 x Wheel spoke kit, Front
1 x Wheel spoke kit, Rear
1 x Throttle pipe

I need to get switch blocks now. I like these ones. They're compact and plain. Anyone got suggestions?

Rick.

traveler

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2009, 08:47:48 am »
Unbelieveable! :'(

Hurts just looking at the hassles you have had....but, I'm sure that you will be happy when it is completed.

Of course, things start definitely looking improved once the grime and rust is off.  Might be worth cleaning the inside of the tank and using a good inline filter to keep the carbs clean when you get to that point.

Keep up the good work.  Please keep us up to date on the goings-on.

~Joe

Offline Hush

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2009, 09:45:03 am »
You are going to be a busy boy over the hols ha ha, I like those controls, one of them is a dead set ringer for my partners GSX400!
One thing to put way way back in your mind and just leave there for a while......but don't let it worry you too much....is the quartz hallogen bulb set up and how much power it will drag off your poor wee charging system...but cross that bridge when you get there.
I like to old CB350F tank shape too, this is going to be a very individual bike. :)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2009, 11:42:55 pm »
Hi guys,

I'm having a hell of a time finding some good switches and a throttle assembly. The stock CB400F switches (and built in throttle assembly) are just way to chunky. I want something less bulky. As I said earlier, I don't mind some of the switches K&S have, but they're a bit racy looking for the vintage look I want. I wouldn't mind them if they were all black and not a boxy.

The other problem I have is, if I do away with the stock Honda switches, how do I connect my push/pull throttle? I'm guessing I need a new throttle assembly? Is that something I can buy aftermarket or from another bike and use on my CB400F?

If anyone has some cool ideas for switches, or even a place to browse some, let me know. So far I haven't been able to find anything but the K&S ones.

Thanks,
Rick.

traveler

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2009, 08:37:57 am »


www.ebaymotors.com

Go to motorcycle parts, then type in "throttle"

~Joe

Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2009, 05:22:38 pm »
Ok so this what I've decided on:

K&N switches. Specifically:

12-0055: Off-Road Handlebar Switch (not sure of the difference between the 12-0055CN?)
12-0202: Right Hand Starter/Stop Switch Honda Style

Then I found a Motion Pro Push/Pull throttle in black which should match the switches nicely. My handle bars will look a little modern for my liking, but that's ok.

Rick.

Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2010, 05:03:45 am »
Hi guys,

A few days ago I finally got to start bolting parts back on to the frame, rather than taking them off. Man it's a satisfying feeling actually building this thing. I never thought I'd become this obsessed with something mechanical. It's a hell of a lot of fun.

So today was getting the battery box back in. The powder-coaters I used were amazing. ProCoat in Tyabb if anyone's on the Mornington Peninsula and needs someone good. I told them to not worry about all the rubber washes on the battery box. They were so rusted a crap I though for sure they'd be no good. So I went out and tried my best to find new rubber washes. I found some nylon tap washes at the plumbing store that I thought might work. I never got to try them, the powdercoaters had taken all the rubber off, cleaned it and packaged it all together for me. Amazing. Saved me so much hassle. All that for $200. Bargain.

I've made the decision to use the K&N pod filters, so I'm not going to install the air filters, airbox and all the bits that go with that. I know the smart thing to do would be to put that in now just in case, but I have this thing about trying to make things clean. There's a lot of perished rubber and plastic in the old air system that I figure I could do without. What do you guys think? Should I put it in just in case? Do I need any of that extra stuff to use the K&N pod filters? I don't think I do.



The first bolt to go back on. It actually took a lot of looking over old photos to make sure I was using the right bolt and washer. Note the ring-spanner. I'm listening to the advice you guys are giving me!



I placed all the bolts into their correct positions whilst I still remember. I need to put the horn and wire harness on now. I'd love some new      Dyna Dual Output 3.0 Ohm Coils but that'll have to wait until I can afford them.



Got the fuse box and regulator in. Everything else is on the harness which I want to re-tape in the next few days.



My makeshift buffer wheel. A wire brush that I mistakenly thought wouldn't scratch my engine casing (it did) has come in super handy for cleaning the rust and corrosion off bolts, washers and nuts.





A little bit of sand paper to finish the job.



Before.



After.

Every bolt, washes and nut I'm putting on this bike I'm cleaning. I don't want everything super shiny and new, I can't afford that. I'm happy for this to have a 'maintained' feel about it. As long as everything is clean and as rust free as I can get it, I'll be happy.



My All Balls tapered steering bearing set. I have no idea how to install this. Do I need to use any of the old steering bearing races or parts (photo below) or is this everything I need? In the small instructions that came with the kit, it said I may need to use one or two washers, depending on the bike. Does anyone know how many I need for a '75 Honda CB400F?



Old steering bearing parts and handlebar botls.



Top down view of steering column.

Obviously I'll have to clean out the sandblasting remnants. That'll be fun I bet. Any ideas on the right way to do that?



Top view down steering column.



Bottom up view of steering column.

I have lots I can do now, but I can't wait for new parts to arrive. I've got new shocks, switches, throttle and a whole bunch of DSS stuff. I should have everything I need to put the frame and steering and electrics back together (besides levers). That leaves brake rebuilds, engine/carbs and wheels.

Rick.

Offline HedNut

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2010, 06:29:56 am »
This is my favourite part...I love seeing someone's bike coming back together!  Looks good!  I'm not sure about the tapered bearing kit...never installed one myself...but I'd like to get one...so I'll be learning from you! Cheers!  Looks GOOD!

traveler

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2010, 07:22:23 am »
Good work!

cleaning stuff out....brake cleaner always works well.

~Joe

Offline dagersh

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1976 CB750K6
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Offline Thor's Hammer!

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2010, 02:13:19 pm »
Great restore man.  Keep the faith!  Seems the worst (paper work crap) is over.

Can't wait to see more of the bike going back together.
1978 Honda CB750F : 2005 Kawasaki ZRX1200

Offline malcolmgb

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2010, 02:45:21 pm »
A great read Rick. Not seen it mentioned anywhere but your frame shows it is an early model 1975/76 the 1977 had pillion footrests on small subframes, similar to where your exhaust bracket is, yours are on the swingarm. Getting them to run well on K&N air filters seems to be difficult judging by other peoples experiences on the forum. Good luck with the rest of the build, it is great to see another 400f is soon to be resurected.
Malcolm

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Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2010, 11:19:38 pm »
Hi all,

Thanks for the videos Dagersh, those will help me a lot. I didn't even think to look on YouTube. Thanks.

I'll take plenty of photos for you HeadNut. That way if I get it wrong, maybe someone will notice!

Melcolmgb, yeah I noticed that discrepancy when I read the manual. The original seller was obviously dodgy, the VIN that was on my bike was probably from a '77. Strange. I better update the title of the thread, who do I have to email to have it changed to 1975?

Thanks guys,
Rick.

P.S. Dagersh, is there anywhere I can see you builds or bikes? I love the seat in your profile pic.

Offline campbmic

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2010, 11:36:25 pm »
I'm in the middle of my first rebuild right now, its a 1975 CB550. I seem to be working in a different direction. I'm mainly focusing on the engine right now. I was just wondering what you were planning to do about yours? Are you planning on rebuilding it yourself or shipping it off? If your going to do it yourself do you have any ideas on what you might focus on?

You could always leave the engine out and have a sweet down hill racer!  :P

I had an 82 Suzuki 650 that had a loud tapping noise coming from the bottom end that would accelerate as you cranked the throttle. I found out I threw a rod bearing after I dug into the engine!

Its hard to be wrong when you know nothing!

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2010, 01:40:33 am »
The Allbalz TAPERED bearing kit should have all you need but don't ditch that stuff just yet.
Fitting the new bearings isn't the hard part, figuring out if you need a spacer washer and how big is.
The spacer washer should be thick enough to ensure the lower bearing race does not migrate up the steering shaft after it's all back together, and there are weather seals that go on the triple tree right at the bottom (mine were like plastic coloured cream and black).
Don't forget to pack them with grease.
I found I no longer needed (nor did it fit anymore) the big overlapped top steering weather seal I see in that box of spares.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2010, 04:35:45 pm »
@ campbmic: My thinking on the engine vs. the rest was this. I don't know anything about engines. I'm more than happy to pay someone who knows what they're doing $500-$1000. So I figured I'll do all the bits that I can. Mainly cleaning, painting, rebuilding brakes & carbs etc and leave the really complicated stuff to the pros.

@ hush: Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what any of that means just yet, I'll be taking my laptop with me to the shed over the weekend and use the videos and information here and have a crack. I'll take plenty of photos and let you know how I go.

Thanks,
Rick.

traveler

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2010, 09:39:48 pm »
Smart move on the motor rebuild.

Don't kid yourself, those carbs can be a real b1tch. ;D

~Joe

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2010, 02:02:53 am »
Actually after cursing SOHC4 carbs for a year, when I finally got them settled in and running smooth I haven't had any trouble at all with them.
Just remember to turn the gas tap off and always put the bike on the main stand when you've finished riding for the day. :)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline RickB

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2010, 06:11:10 pm »
Hi guys,

So I dropped my carbs and engine off to a friend of a friends for a complete rebuild. I'm heading away on a holiday to the US for 2 months next week so it's an ideal time to have my engine fixed so that when I return, it'll be good to go.

Here's the message I gave to the mechanic on how I'm hoping to run the rebuild.

Quote
Stage 1:

    * I would like you to dissemble my engine
    * hydro-blast it back to nice and shiny
    * assess the overall condition of the engine
    * determine what parts are required in both short and long term (if we can buy all parts in the least amount of orders it will save on multiple shipping costs)
    * give an estimate on price to rebuild and a realistic timeline for completion

I will source all parts to save on cost and try to make things as quick and painless for you. As I said, whist I would like this to be a high performance engine, I'm really going for reliability and cost efficiency. So I'm not out to replace every single bolt or piston or ring if you don't feel it is necessary.

As we talked about, I would prefer you to invoice me for the work done and advise me on work commencing. I would like to keep a lid costs and don't want to have you out of pocket large sums of money.

My thinking is I don't want to be away over seas and have the rebuild get away from me cost wise. I imagine it's a tough thing to ask someone to price without actually having examined the internal condition of the engine. So I'm hope this phased rebuild approach will help me keep up with the work being done. I'm more than happy to source parts for the mechanic because I'll be in California and can more easily bundle parts together to save on shipping.

On another note, my order from DSS came today! So this weekend I'm aiming to get the following done:

Put on rear wheel so as to have a rolling frame whilst away in case the shed owner need to move things easily. I will re-spoke it later)
Rear brake rebuild with new pads
New rear shocks installed
Swingarm and brake rod etc on.
Handle bars, switches and throttle. Hopefully can get levers form Modak tomorrow. Then hopefully I can get my forks on and rebuilt too if I have time.

I'm having a bit of an issue with mounting the gauges and idiot box. As I have done away with the stock CB400F mounting frame, I need something that'll mount onto the handlebar. The CB750 mounting plate would work I believe. The idiot box is the same on the 400 as it is on the 750. The gauges themselves are different. So I'd need to buy 750 speedo and tacho and use my existing idiot box. That sounds expensive. Can I do away with my idiot box? Is there something custom I can use that still looks good?

Ah options.

Plenty of photos to come of all the new parts going on the bike over the weekend!

Rick.

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Re: 1977 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2010, 10:51:24 pm »
Hi guys,

So I spent all evening (and into the next morning) re-taping my wiring harness and installing the All Balls tapered steering bearing kit. Tomorrow I'm putting the bars on. Should I drill the bars and run cables though them or not?!



My DSS order! More details on the parts tomorrow.



Wiring harness. On the advice of someone on Caferacer.net I decided against heat shrinking everything. Apparently that would make everything too stiff and is not how it's done. So electrical tape it is. I started peeling off the old tape. It was applied very efficiently in most spots. Not many breaks in the tape. I was planning on only fixing the rough spots, although once I started unraveling it I decided to do the whole thing.



I bought the most expensive electrical tape I could find. It has 'nitro' lightly embossed on the surface of the tape. Yeah, even the electrical tape is fast.



The old tape in a heap and the wiring harness complete. Actually the cables that got to the switch's are a bit of a mess. I'll tape those once I get the bars on as I'll know what I'm doing then.



Now the All Balls tapered steering bearing kit. Installing the top bearing race. These were a tight fit.



With a soft mallet and a lot of frustration, I managed to get the race in all the way down. Very satisfying but my battle had only just begun.



The bottom race was a pain in the arse. It just didn't want to go in straight. I then noticed a small scratch on the headstem that appeared to be holding the race up. So I go sanding for what felt like years.



Filled the frame over for better hammering.



Got a heat-gun onto metal as I've read others having luck with freezing the race and heating the frame.



It worked. I got it in.



Now to measure up the All Balls kit to see if I need a washer. The instructions that come with the kit are sparse and not very intuitive. But after reading through the thread that dagersh gave me, it made sense. Essentially you want to make sure the new tapered bearing is within +/- 1mm of the height of the old bearing stack. That way your lower triple tree won't rub against the headstem. At least that's how I interpreted it. As you can see above, the tapered bearing is too short.



So I added the included washer. Boo-yah. Note the dirt seal.





Washer.



Dirt seal.



Tapered bearing. It's not mentioned anywhere that this tapered bearing doesn't just slide on. The headstem (or whatever it's called) is tapered, so you have to really bang on the tapered bearing. I used the old bearing races to help. Ideally you'd want a piece of piping that is the correct size and you'd just slip it over the stem and hammer the tapered bearing down. I just used a bit of wood and some time on the rubber mallet alternating sides.



Added a heap of bearing grease as per the YouTube video dagersh linked me. Thanks mate!



Same for the top. Don't forget to add the dust seal over this.



Now I screwed this on next. Although from what I've read here, maybe I should use the extra thick included washer to improve purchase and decrease slippage. It's not mentioned anywhere, but I believe that's what the extra think included washer is for. I'll add it in the morning.

More progress tomorrow. Should get the bars, headlight, forks (maybe!), shocks and swingarm on! I'm hoping for a rolling frame tomorrow!

Should I drill the bars or not?

Rick.

P.S. Also, does anyone know what that little silver bit of wire/metal that clips onto the screw that holds the horn on is for? Which screw is it meant to clip onto? The front or rear? I know it came off the horn but I can't remember how it went on.