Topic: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie

[hoodellyhoo]

Thanks for the great step-by-step on the bearings! I'll have to do the ones on my 350 at some point in the future.

[RickB]

@ hoodellyhoo: No worries mate, it's as much for you as it is for me to allow people to catch my mistakes. I tried putting the thicker washer on to the top spanner nut as per the suggestion on that other forum but it didn't fit, so I left it off. Maybe I could machine one to fit, but I'll see how it wears first.

Hi guys,

So I spent all day Sunday working on the bike. I got the re-taped wire harness on, the swingarm re-built and on, rear shocks and played with the handlebars and switches.



The swingarm was a #$%* to get in. The old bushings that held the swingarm axle in were jammed in. When I finally got them out the grease in the swingarm was almost solid. Getting the new bushings in was extreme difficult. The fit was so tight. I tried heating the swingarm, still wouldn't fit. I tried hammering in the bushings but because they're made from this weird fibre material, they quickly broke. Luckily I was able to use one of the old ones. The other damaged bushing I was able to use a car jack and some soft wood to vice it in. That's how much pressure was required. In the end, the washer/seals pictured above should do enough for me not to worry about the banged-up bushings. Pity about my spray paint job flaking off (forgot to powder coat these), but considering how hard this was to get right, I'll live with it.



Now I forgot to take these out before powdercoating. So the rear shocks bushings were baked in. No matter how hard I banged these with anything suitable, they wouldn't budge. Good thing too as you'll see below, the replacement set DSS shipped me were the wrong size. As far as I could tell, the old bushings would do just as good a job as the new ones. So I left them in. I'll change them later if I can find the right part, but right now, they'll do I think.





Not sure why DSS would have this listed as a CB400F part when it clearly doesn't fit. Maybe on the later model 400's the changed the width and diameter of the bushings.

Update: The bushing are "Cush drive rubber" for the rear wheel. I ordered the wrong part. What I really needed was the "Shock absorber lower mounting bush". Opps.



Another wrong part. The new shiny chrome nut on the right is what David Silver Spares listed as a genuine Honda steering stem top nut. Every Honda I've seen of this vintage has the slimmer nut on the left. So whilst I wanted the shiny new chrome, I'll stick with the slimmer old nut. It look better, even with the pitting.



Now that the swingarm is on, I was able to get the new shocks on. Happy days! I ended up getting the cheaper Red Wing shocks. I know a lot of people say they're rubbish, but for the amount and type of riding I intend on doing, I doubt I'll know the difference.



Plus the Red Wing's came with all the mounting hardware (namely rubber bushings). That saved me having to chase the originals down.



I have no idea what the 4/5 means stamped into the top of the shocks. Anyone here know?



Had a hell of a time getting the powdercoating off the threads. Lucky I held onto the old nuts as I was able to screw those on and off a few times to clean it up.



Part number if anyone cares to know.



You can see where the adjustment is currently set.



This is what the old ones were set to. How do I set the correct setting for me? I'm 6'2" and about 80kgs. Is there a rule of thumb for setting shocks?



Switches. I bought these from PeakMoto and I cannot say enough good about them. Fast shipping, great packaging and fast on emails. Super helpful and friendly. I ordered some K&N switches. This indicator/horn/hi-lo switch comes with the 9 pin connector (12-0055CN). However the one they sent me was the 9 loose wires version (12-0055). When I email them about it, Rod from PeakMoto promptly sent me out a new one and said I could keep the old one! Now that is awesome service. Especially over the internet halfway around the globe.



Oh and it has a led high beam indicator light. Sweet.



It comes with two small bits of rubber that fit on that groove to improve grip.



This the 9 loose wires version.



How it will look on my bars. I didn't want to put the grips on because I have to put leavers on first. As you can see, very compact and clean, if not a little modern and racy.



The start/stop/run switch for the right hand side. This is from K&S also. The 12-0202 to be specific. Yes I could have just made this a small on/off switch on the frame somewhere. However I wanted something that is easy and clear to see as I'm just starting to ride and can get a little confused as to what I need to be doing. This is pretty obvious even for someone like myself. Plus it matches the other and I like the symmetry.





Now this had a little knob that is obviously for mounting it to the bars or throttle or something. Either way, I don't have a use for it. So I cut it off. Famous last words, but hopefully it's for nothing important.



The Motion Pro push/pull throttle in black. I also got this from PeakMoto. They ordered it in for me pronto. Once again, I would recommend PeakMoto for anything.





Wiring harness! I tried so hard to do this the way it was on the bike originally. But from the handy routing manuals I found here, I guess my CB400F was never wired correctly when I bought it. So I just did it the cleanest and most logical way I could. It would be handy to have another crack at taping the wire harness now that I know where everything goes. To be honest, I reckon' heat shrink wouldn't be too bad. Trouble is getting it over all the large connectors. There must be a better, more cleaner way to do the wiring than like this.







Now this is interesting. I ordered a new condenser from DSS. It arrived, I pulled it out of the box and promptly became confused. I guess 40 odd years of electronics evolution can quite obviously be seen. Trouble is, it only has 1 wire, whereas the original condenser has 3. So I'm confused now. What do I do? Is the new condenser DSS sent me even correct? As you can see below, there is nothing on the box explaining rating or anything. So for the time being I put the old one back on.

Update: So this condenser is for the points. What that big silver thing with "condenser" stamped across it is, I have no idea. It's not in the schematics. However I am missing a 'turn signal relay' that is on the schematics but not on my bike. Perhaps this is some kind of aftermarket turn signal relay?



I'd love to know if there is other bits of electrics in here that I can replace with newer, cleaner, smaller ones?



In the end the wiring/battery box/electrics came up alright, but I can see why people get rid of the battery box/air filter part altogether. There's got to be a much easier way of doing it. Those black wire just look ugly to me.



Apart from the rectifier, everything else is on the left had side. Can I mount my rectifier on the the spare bracket at the bottom of the electronics panel somehow? Or does it need to be over on the right side by itself for some reason? It's just shame to run a wire all the way around to it and the brake light switch if I can make it look neater somehow.



Done for the day. Actually, maybe for 2 months. I'm going away to the US in a few days until late March. So the bike will probably stay in this state until then. I'm sad, I was really enjoying working on it. However the engine is being rebuilt why I'm away, so that's a positive. Here's what I need to do/get:

• Fork tubes. The ones I have are pitted and for the price, I might just buy new ones. Unless chroming them is affordable, any ideas?
• I need to re-spoke the rims and get new tires. I've been having a hell of a time finding new tires in my size (front: 90/90-18 or 3.00x18 and rear: 110/90-18 or 3.50x18). I love the Dunlop k70, but they don't seem to make them in my size. Cheng Shin make a replica, albeit in dubious quality, but I can't even find that. I'm at the point where I'll take anything with that vintage look. Any help would be much appreciated as mate is in a similar situation with his CB200.
• I need a new chain and guard (I think I need a guard for registration purposes).
• New ignition and coils are in order me thinks.
• Need to re-build front and rear brakes (including machine and drill front disc).
• Spray tank and side covers. Need new pitcock and cap.
• Wire switches, headlight and whatever else is broken.
• Turn singles and stop light. This is going to be fun finding good looking sets of these.
• Side and centre stands put back together.
• Cut down front fender.
• Install inner fender (easy to do, just had it out for electrics.
• Seat. I love the Giuliari style seat, but am not sure if it'll fit a CB400. I made have to shorten it or build my own.
   
• Rear sets. Ideally I want a set that I don't have to weld on. No ideas on this.

That's everything I can think of. Of course there's going to be parts and action required with the engine too (gaskets, K&N pods etc).

Rick.

[HedNut]

DUDE! Looking killer... love the pics and details you're givin' us! And thanks a mill' for the tapered bearing install run down...that's magic to my CB' knowledge cookie jar.  Cheers!  Keep up the goodness!

[hoodellyhoo]

yes, that big thing is a turn signal relay. Everything's looking great!

[byfbo]

Very nice job!

[malcolmgb]

Yes a great looking job so far. Don't worry about rear damper lower bush I had a swing arm shot blasted and powder coated, the rubber isn't damaged at all, I had intended replacing them but the paint man said not to bother he had done plenty in the past without bother. I really like the modern switchgear, the plastic peg would stop the switches from turning in use. Guiliari seats for the 400 sometimes appear on eBay, perhaps someone here has one.

[fastbroshi]

I really like the modern switchgear, the plastic peg would stop the switches from turning in use. Guiliari seats for the 400 sometimes appear on eBay, perhaps someone here has one.

  Yeah, you made a booboo, shouldn't have cut that off of the controls.  Maybe you can drill the rest of it out of the controls and get a pin to place in there.

[Slams77]

The turn signal relay can be swapped out for an electronic one which will be smaller.  I swapped mine out when I switched to LED turn signals.  The electronic flasher keeps the LED’s from flickering too fast, although I don’t know if it will be any different for bulb type.  You can do a search on the forum for more info on electronic relays.  Great project you are working on by the way.

[malcolmgb]

The electronic type turn signal relay should work fine on a bulb circuit. The original type worked by using the electrical load (bulb resistance) to generate flashing rate, the newer 'electronic' type use a square wave generator for the flash rate and are not so load sensitive. This is my understanding of it.

Apart from the rectifier, everything else is on the left had side. Can I mount my rectifier on the the spare bracket at the bottom of the electronics panel somehow? Or does it need to be over on the right side by itself for some reason? It's just shame to run a wire all the way around to it and the brake light switch if I can make it look neater somehow.

I would guess the rectifier is there because it generates some heat the reason for the finned aluminium casing, I think I am right in saying it needs to be grounded so bare metal is needed on the frame mounting point, get a 2nd opinion on that before damaging your new powder coating.

Rear sets. Ideally I want a set that I don't have to weld on. No ideas on this.

The original rests were classed as 'rear sets' I think the US/Canada models had footrests mounted further forward under the engine.

[RickB]

Thanks for the encouragement and advice guys.

Just so you know, I heard back from DSS about the top stem nut:

The original part number for the steering top nut is 90304-323-670. Honda have now replaced this with 90304-415-000. Whilst the replacement part does the same job, the design has changed from the original. I will photograph 90304-415-000 and add this image to our website later today.

What good dudes they are at DSS. Couldn't be better service I don't think.

The electronic relay information is handy. I'll have to get looking. There's original parts out there that replace mine, but I rather like the idea of using LED's for my indicators so I'll look into upgrading. Plus that big silver thing is kinda' ugly.

As for the start/stop/run switch knob that I broke off. I understood what that bit was for, I just doubt I needed it. None of the other switches have them and if it can't be tightened down enough with the screws, I'll put some rubber tape in there. I'm not worried.

Malcomgb, I think you're right about the rectifier. I'll leave it where it is and just try to hide the wire running over to it better.

I'll keep an eye out for better seat options. I have seen a Giuliari style seat made by the same people for the CB500F, and I'm not if there's a hell of a lot of difference in frame size. I'll look into it.

Thanks guys,
Rick.

[cbrace0012]

For the shock adjustment, it doesn't really deal with the height of the rider. The higher the setting is for smoother terrain. Also, the nuts/washers you are sanding down will rust very quickly.  On the exposed ones (i.e. the fork nuts, handlebar, rear shock, etc.) I cleared them with a little clear paint once I tightened them up to delay the rusting process.  Good job getting the VIN cleared, in the US, no title pretty much means it will become a parts bike.

[super4]

Hi RickB,

I was wondering if you know the depth of the spacer using in the head stocks? I have thrown mine away before thinking if i would need them again, needless to say, i found the information on the spacers limited, and put the bearing on without a spacer - now realise its a big no no.

Best Regards, and enjoy your project.

Allan

[RickB]

Super4,

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I'm not in front of my bike at the moment, in fact I'm travelling in the USA so I can't be sure of the height of the spacer. From memory it was only 3 or 4mm. Looking at the photos you can see it isn't much. From my understaning, the spacer/washer is there to boost the height of the tapered bearing stack to match the height of the old stack, so the triple tree doesn't rub against the headstem. So you probably don't have to be super spot on with the height of the spacer/washer, just make sure you've got enough clearence for the tripletree.

I intially made the mistake of putting the tapered bearing on the yoke before the washer. As you've most likely discovered, getting the tapered bearing off the yoke is very difficult. I used a soft bit of wood, a flat-head screw driving wrapped in electrical tape and a rubber mallet and just worked it off. It took a will, but it did come off.

Good luck. All Balls really should spend 30 minutes writing a tutorial for this.

Rick.

[RickB]

Hey guys,

Alright, so I got the bill of health from Matt the engine mechanic. To the untrained eye such as myself, it's quite intimidating. It sounds bad. But I guess that's why I'm doing an engine rebuild. Here's what he had to say:

In regards to inlet manifolds I would recommend new ones. The rubber in all of them will be hard and brittle and will not last long. Here is where things stand so far. The crank appears to be in good condition but the bearings were stuffed. Dirty oil lots of scratches. The barrels are standard. There is a bit of light vertical scratching from dirty oil but they could probably be salvaged with a light hone but the pistons are beyond use. Worn ring groves and worn gudgion pins. That leaves you with either finding a set of good second hand pistons and getting new gudgions and rings. The risk is that the pistons are no better than what you already have. You could try to find a set of new standard size pistons. Or you will have to go oversize new pistons and bore the barrels. Which is probably the best option for the long term. Everything new and back to tolerance.

There is a bit of work to be done on the chain tensioner. That would have been the noise you could hear on start up. The chain was not tensioned at all and had been flailing around in the case. It has destroyed the bottom u shaped tensioner, (which you will have to find a second hand one of) and taken quite a bit of the casing with it. At some stage someone has stripped the tensioner lock bolt tread in the casing then repaired it very badly. It will have to be fixed properly.

The primary drive chain is also very stretched. It should be replaced with a new one. Up the top end the camshaft and rockers are very worn. You could try to find a good second hand cam and a set of rockers but they really should be a matched set from the same engine. there are new cams and rockers available but I will leave that up to you.

I have not stripped the head yet so I do not yet know the condition of the valves, valve guides and seats. The clutch and gearbox all look pretty good. I will continue to strip the last few things for hydroblasting then take it over so he can get started. I will take the oil pan and alternator cover over seperately when I get them.

Here is my list of what is needed so far.

primary drive chain
timing chain
bottom chain tensioner (U shaped) second hand if you can get a good one.
front chain guide
inlet manifolds
full gasket, seal kit
camshaft.  second hand if it is good.
set of rockers.  I saw that new rockers are available at not too bad a price.   
piston set
Main shaft (clutch basket) nut and lock washer. I will tell you about that one another time.
drive sprocket (what ever number of teeth you want)
drive sprocket retaining washer.
crank and rod shell bearings. (when I get back to you with sizes)

So as you can see, there's a bit of work to be done. Where I'm going to get all those parts from is a whole other question. Has anyone hear had experience rebuilding a CB400/4 engine? Will I be able to find these parts easy enough?

Also, is anyone able to explain to me what he means about the camshaft and rockers being matched to the same engine? Is he saying that I really shouldn't buy these second hand as they wear differently in different engines.

Well I'm just going to let that all sink in.

Rick.

[Rich361]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for inspiring me to pull my old girl out of the garage and start working on her....  I finshed the engine side of my restoration and now i'm starting on the frame and pretty bits...  (opposite to you really)

I live over the ditch in New Zealand and when it came to finding parts for my engine, I actually found it easier and cheaper to get parts from the USA or David Silver Spares in England. example I needed to get new valves, the mechanic shop which did some of my work got me a second hand set, forget the price now, but had a look DSS and could of got a new Honda set landed in NZ for cheaper!!!

 I know of one place in NZ that you could try if you luck out in Aussie...  www.econohonda.co.nz    He carrys alot of Honda parts new and second hand and he does ship over seas...

I was reading on internet somewhere that very few 400/4 came down this way (NZ and Aussie) so parts do tend to be harder to come by and are more expensive... (this applies to NZ any way) 

That was my experience anyway....

Good luck, I'll keep an eye on Trade Me over here... If I see any 400/4 parts that you need.... I'll let you know!!

Keep up good work

Cheers

Rich

[hoodellyhoo]

Ouch! The dreaded cam chain tensioner system strikes again. Bummer about that stripped tensioner bolt, and everything else I suppose There's a number of threads about the problems of the tensioner used on these 400/350 motors.

If you want to save a some money you could try resurrecting your rubber inlets if they aren't already too perrished. Here's a length thread about the subject:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=29707.0

What your mechanic is tallking about with the matched set, is that you should get your cam and rockers all from the same motor. The rockers all wear in a very specific was to their respective cam lobes. By mixing and matching a cam and rockers that haven't worn together could result in excessive wear to both pieces. I don't know how plausible it is in your part of the world, but maybe you could find a spare motor in better shape?

[super4]

Hi Rick,

Many thanks for your reply - I hope your enjoying your tour.

I completely agree about what you say about the fitting instructions that all balls should supply, i think now (probably they have read your posts) they have a bit of written instruction, but nothing with a simple diagram, which would be universal in language (unless you can't see - and if that's the case, why would you be restoring a bike???) it would also be clearer to understand too.

As for engine building, I can't truthfully say i have put one together yet (but will be doing so in the next few weeks - pick my bike up from the powder coaters on sunday).

If you pulled it appart your self then your 60% there. if not - good luck. I restored a complete basket case (British bike) just from a parts book, and climbing on floors in museums taking pictures of underneath.

I dont think i noticed it on your list, but you could do with replacing the 8 wedge shaped rubbers for the starter gear, primary chain attaches to that, and the clutch basket rubbers also. I dont think the primary guides wear much, so I'm using my old ones.
the gearbox looks interesting on these, not as simple as a British box, however you cant change gear at 7,000 revs with a British box either!!!, so i will share any experience as i learn it, However one thing which is a good rule of thumb for any gear box, is to build it up in the neutral position. and once built go through gears (bare in mind that you will need to have the box turning to select some gears.
Replace all oil seals and gaskets - anything rubber - especially in the cylinder section!!!, and use something like "welseal" to glue the head gasket down, my bike chucked oil out when i got it, the head had been done but never glued down, 12 months later, and oil lights coming on, i changed the head gasket, glued it down, and torqued to head down over a 2 day period (never needed to re-torque it then). when i came to strip the engine, i found the head and cylinders almost impossible to separate - did it eventually.

as for parts:

DSS for most of them, there is a site called - www.cmsnl.com  which are very good - dutch i think??? but beware they tax at 25+% where as in the UK its only 17.5% (which is bad enough) make a shopping list between those 2 places or more and work out the cheapest place. Try and get OEM where possible.

As for cam chain tensioner, check out this chap:  http://www.ttr400.com/photo3_2.html
It doesn't come cheap but i believe well worth it, As for me I'm in two minds, my hopes say yes go for it - and after all the lavish spending my wallet is in tears. But I do think it is a must.

Saying that, although my is seized so solid i cant move it even in a vice and leverage, my friends bike i am doing seems to be quite flexable, If i can remove the pin, I may look into having it machines and bronze bushed then repined, that's all you need, the other is lightened aluminium for racing spec. probs cost a similar amount though unless you know someone in engineering.

A big must is regular oil changes. My 400 has had 22 owners - seems like every man and his dog has had a poke at it, all failed and passed it on. but I as a rule change the oil 4 times a year, and it was still coming out black!!!!, however when I stripped it, the cases were nice and clean, doesn't make sense to me. But I will continue to do excessive oil changes - its my car instead which suffers.


I hope I have been of some help.

[RickB]

@ hoodellyhoo: I was expecting some issues with the tensioner, and had heard grumbles about it in these engines back when I first took it for a mechanic inspection earlier on (it's probably documented one page 1 or 2 of this thread!). I've already emailed 400fourstore for a price and availability on the part that super4 recommended. Might as well do it right, especially if it's susceptible to braking.

The carb manifolds/isolators, I'll probably just buy new from DSS. Not worth the hassle considering they're not too expensive.

As for the rocker and cams, look below and you'll see I've found a set on ebay real cheap that look good. I've emailed my mechanic asking him to let me know if they look good, I hope they are because I bet they're not easy to find.

@ super4: Wow mate, thanks for the detailed help. I'm sure as I move forward, your advice about the rubber will come in handy. I'm putting a lot of faith in my mechanic on that front. He comes highly recommended from a fellow Honda owner and has been great so far. I'm sure he know what he's doing. I'm leaving the engine re-building up to him. I'm just tyring to source parts for him (easier because I'm in the US for the next 6 weeks) and learn as much as I can to keep up. You guys have been great on that front, so thanks!


Hey guys,

So I've gone through the list of parts required my engine mechanic has asked for and tried to find them online. I've listed them and any thoughts/comments/questions below. I sent this to my mechanic to have him check that things are right before I order anything. I figured it can't hurt if I post the list here. Just if you're also restoring a CB400, maybe wait a week before you poach all my parts!

primary drive chain
http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/part_41425/

timing chain
Would this be also called a cam chain?
http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/part_28458/

bottom chain tensioner (U shaped) second hand if you can get a good one.
Am waiting on price and availablity from TTR400/400fourstore.com

front chain guide
Sorry, I don't know what this is. Could anyone give me some help?

inlet manifolds
I will get all new inlet manifolds rather than second hand ones.
http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/part_3383/

full gasket, seal kit
Already bought this. I got a 60 piece stainless steel bolt set too. Will package and send with other parts asap.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200366639393
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360230480100

camshaft. second hand if it is good.
set of rockers. I saw that new rockers are available at not too bad a price.
Would this auction be ok? I'm aware that we may end up with parts that are similar to the ones I already have. But for the price, perhaps they're suitable?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230432477680

piston set
I agree, I think we should get oversized ones and rebore the cylinders. There are cylinder kits availble in 0.25, 0.50mm, 0.75mm and 1.00mm oversized. The kits come with 1 piston, 1 ring set, 1 piston pin and 2 circlips. What size would you suggest?
http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/part_43393/

Main shaft (clutch basket) nut and lock washer. I will tell you about that one another time.
I can find plenty of clutch baskets. Part number M - 071 here (http://400fourbits.co.uk/) or 'sets' on ebay
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CB400-CB-400-CM400-CM-CLUTCH-BASKETSET_W0QQitemZ110376887148QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b2f9a36c) but I'm not sure if this is what we need. The 400fourbits guy is super helpful, so I'm sure I could ask him for the nut and lock washer and he would have them, if you think that M - 071 part is acceptable (the welding thing I don't know about).

drive sprocket (what ever number of teeth you want)
16 tooth rather than the stock 17.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-JT-16-Tooth-Front-Drive-Sprocket-CB350-CB400-CM450_W0QQitemZ230401982112QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a5073ea0

drive sprocket retaining washer
Part number F - 194 at http://400fourbits.co.uk/

crank and rod shell bearings. (when I get back to you with sizes)
Are these "Crankshaft big end bearing half shell" or "Crankshaft main bearing half shell". These seem to be easy to find. There's plenty of different 'colours' listed as www.davidsilverspares.co.uk for the CB400. The bearings, I'm not sure what size you need but can find out if you could give me some more information.

[Hush]

I love what you are doing to that bike Rick, those handle grips are like the old Triumph originals we used to get here in NZ, wouldn't mind a pair myself for the 650.

[traveler]

talk to you mechanic, and find out how much boring he recommends.  If it is really up to you, then go with the smallest overbore you can.....extra "meat" around the cylinders is a good thing.....

recommend staying with a 17 tooth front sprocket.  Sprocket specialists can get you a different rear sprocket.  smaller front sprockets tend to bind the chain, and you MAY have clearance issues.....best to do the changing at the rear sprocket, IMHO.

Probably best to buy your US sourced parts while you are here, and either ship home, or pay the addtional baggage fee....cheaper in the long run.

Cheers,

~Joe

[RickB]

traveler,

Thanks for the advice. I was only really going off what I read here:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/honda_four_cb400f/discuss/72157606254856766/

But if I can make the same performance adjustments at the rear sprocket, that might be better.

Hmm, decisions.

Rick.

[RickB]

Hi guys,

Ok so I need a new set of rockers and a new camshaft. My mechanic says not to worry about used, as most will be as bad or worse than mine. So...

I can get a kit of 8 rockers from DSS or CMSNL, albeit pricey at over $200. But if that's what they are, fine. It's the camshaft I'm having an issue with. Obviously Honda don't make that part anymore. I've found an aftermarket company called WebCams (http://www.dynoman.net/engine/cams/webcams_honda.html) that list them, but I have no idea if they're suitable or any good. Does anyone here have any suggestions for a new camshaft? I've read about something called a reground/regrind, is this something I can affordably do to my old camshaft? Will it keep tolerances etc?

Thanks and I appreciate any help in advance.

Rick.

[GK]

G'day Rick, building one too mate, must get some more pics up, anyway tyres wise try Pablos tyres in melbourne mate www.pablos.com.au they can get any tyre you want especially in the odd sizes we need.

[supersports400]

Hi Rick,

Nice project, funny, I also started a project shop threat about rebuilding 1975 CB400f with 102.000 km engine. Much of the things you came across are the same, and the parts we need too (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=65233.0)

Yes, it's important not to use second hand rockers with an unmatched camshaft, try to buy a complete set, including the rockers shafts.
Maybe it's easier to find and buy a low miles cylinder head. Last week one was sold from the same seller (stretch123) on Ebay.
What did your mechanic said about the camshaft bearing surface in the head itself ? If shot also, you need another head.
I read that the problems where generated with dirty oil, please look at your oil pump surfaces, to see if these are all right. This engine needs a good pump, if you can't find any, pm me.

I had the same thing with the camshaft and rockers, and I bought a NOS one here local for the price of a "second hand" camshaft from webcam or megacycle cams (around 300 USD). I wonder how many miles the engine ran, mine did 102.000 km.

If you have to rebore, what are you paying per hole to re bore ? Normally I go for plateau honing, it shortens the break-in procedure. Here's a  short cut : http://www.digitalmetrology.com/Papers/CylinderBoreNoBkgd.pdf

I pay 90 euro per cylinder hole, that makes 360 euro for a complete four hole cylinder.

About the parts, I know a few local sellers here, with very interesting prices on some new parts.
I'm living in the Netherlands (CMS is around the corner), and here, the CB350f and the CB400f's where popular.

Are you going to build a stocker, or do you want to rebuild it a bit ?
It's a pity that your exhaust is shot, these parts are hard to get, and very expensive.

Anyway, keep up the good work,

Jensen

[RickB]

@ GK: Yeah my mate who is doing up a CB200 with me just found Pablo. Amazing place, can't believe it took me this long to find him. It turns out (eastern?) European company Mitas make a Dunlop K70 knock-off called the H03 in the stock CB400 size. That is fantastic news for me, I'd almost given up finding a vintage looking tyre.

@ Jensen: You're a legend! I've been reading your thread, but as I've given my engine to a mechanic, I'm not able to follow everything you're doing to your engine. You obviously know what you're doing a lot more than I do.

I was keeping a good eye on that stretch123 auction. In fact I'm in the running for some parts from him right now. However I had my mechanic look at the photos on the auction for the rockers and camshaft and he said:

The camshaft and rockers on ebay definitely not. You can see in one of the photos showing the top of the lobe a step to one corner. lots of wear.  It looks just as bad as your cam. Apparently it is a bit of a week point with the smaller engined hondas. They get worked pretty hard, lots of revs for a long time. Keep looking but I think maybe your only option is going to be a new or reground one through someone like ttr400. Or to regrind yours. Either way you would also still need new rockers. A regrind here would probably cost something like $250. 

So I let them go. I emailed WebCam about a new camshaft and got this from them:

Web makes a drop in street performance cam that works with the stock rocker arms, but it will need performance valve springs . The cams are hard welds that are made on your old core. As the lobes will be welded up and reground they do not have to be in good shape, however the bearding surfaces will need to be good on your old cam, or it will not be usable as a core. We sell the cams for $299 and the springs for $69 a set. We will just need you to send you core to Web. If your cam is not good we have cores at Web that we could sell you for $75. Shipping is $24 for cam and springs.

So it's looking I need a new camshaft and rockers and 0.25mm pistons. Then cam chains tensioners and primary chains, it's already up around $1000. I wasn't expecting it to be so much, but it's always that way I'm told. I'd love to find some of these parts cheap! Where did you get your NOS camshaft from? I can't find them anywhere. If you've got some connections, I'd love to give you a parts list!

I'll let me my mechanic know about the oil pump, although so far Matt (the mechanic) seems pretty switched on, so I'm confident he'll do the job right.

As for the re-boring, I'm not sure. I've heard between $30-$50 Australian, but it could be much more than that. I suspect it'll be $100 per cylinder when all is said and done. When I hear, I'll let you know.

I just want to build the engine reliable. So stock for sure. I'd love a fast bike of course, but this is my first restore and I don't need anything stupidly quick. I'd rather have value for money at the moment.

For some extra information, I got this report back from the mechanic yesterday. It's so exciting!

I think your best bet is to stay standard. In the end what you really want is a good reliable bike, make it look how you like and enjoy it.  The primary chain and guides on ebay I think are best avoided. Get a new primary chain. Your guides are fine. I finished stripping the engine today. The valves,  guides and springs look like they could be alright. There is a small repair needed under one of the cylinder head nuts. The wrong washer was used and the aluminum of the head underneath collapsed. I will get Greg at hydroblast to sort it out. He is very good at that sort of stuff. The valve seats may need to be re-cut and the head surface faced to be sure it is flat. Greg is also able to do that. I will try to get a quote out of him when I take the parts over. I am going to take everything over to hydroblast tomorrow. I tried to get Greg to give me a price on the blasting but he seemed reluctant because the time needed varies so much from job to job. He said he could spend up to 6 hours on the cases but I don't know what his rate is. I will let you know. We will have to hold off on buying the shell bearings. I want to take accurate measurements of the bearing seats with the cases clean so I will have to wait till they come back.

I'm ignoring the exhaust issue! I'm hoping I have enough money later to buy a NOS original and put a peashooter silencer on it. But I'm so far away from needing that just yet.

Well thanks Jensen for your time.

Rick.