Topic: 1975 Honda CB400 Four Project - Rookie

[tom8Toe]

First of all ...GREAT JOB SO FAR!!

So after an exhaustive search trying to find a 90 degree adapter fitting for my brake line, I gave up. I'm convinced it isn't a commonly made part. ...
Rick.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/SearchResult.aspx?All=True&KeyWords=banjo

This might have helped you?? Maybe still could? Z1Enterprises, Inc. has lot's of banjo fittings among other things.
 

 
 Those "Drag bars" are extremely uncomfortable bars! Just like an older mountain bikes bars. Your forearms will get tired of them (had a set on my RD400) and they kinda suck in the turns as well. The stock bars are not that comfortable either. BMW made some comfortable bars that don't rise too much and are turned in and narrow. Work great on the 400-Four. They look similar to upside down clubman bars. I could post a photo of them on a cb400f if you like. If you still want that real low look and feel (amen to that) ...clip-ons or clubmans ...but those drag bars are really for just that: Straight line Drag racing! The stock banjo angles and too long of stock upper hose will not work well with any lower bars.

 Not to sound down on your choices, but thought this could help. Keep up the great work!!
-Damon

I had Clip-ons on my 400/4 and loved 'em. They're a little hard to see.

[Another CB400F]

Hi Rick. Hope you are still making progress. Just looked at your early posts and the exhaust headers. I have a set that may be in better nick than yours that you are welcome to have if you can pick them up from the Dandenongs.

[RickB]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the great advice on the handle bar issue. Oh and for the header pipes 'Another CB400F'. I actually found a great set in the US for $75 that I had my brother bring back for me. I'll take some photos of those when I get around to them.

Ok so handle bars:



The bending of the drag bars certainly gave me clearance over the bar clamps but...



Now the master cylinder won't rotate far enough around the bar to be comfortable and/or safe! You change one thing, it breaks something else. Argh!



I think the increased bend was too extreme anyway. I'm convinced you can't use standard length drag bars with a stock master cylinder on a CB400F (unless you have your controls hanging off the end of the bars by an inch or two).

So I finally bit the bullet and bought some clubmans. I spent a bit of time trying to find clubmans that fit the 400F. In the end, I settled on the BikeMaster Clubman Handlebar part #110540. Cheap yes, but from everything I could find on the internet, they should fit. I'll of course report back here when they arrive.

So until I get the new bars, I'm in a bit of a lull. I will start work on the carb rebuild this weekend using the amazing step-by-step guide Tim Boughen from the Yahoo CB4000F user group made.

Rick.

[kajtek]

i have to add, that recently i fitted tarozzi race clip ons and i love my bike so much more now. i had clubmans before and it was a bit of a stretch and the angles were a bit odd, but the clip ons feel so natural/neutral.

ashley

[Flying J]

Im the same way, I went from stock to drag bars, to clubmans to clipons. I love the clipons on my around town bike but the one i ride on short trips i went back to drag bars for a more upright position.

[RickB]

Hi,

Well this last one has taken awhile sorry. Had to wait the mandatory two weeks for a parcel to arrive from the USA. I got the BikeMaster Clubman Handlebar part # 110540. Cheap. I read somewhere on this board that the measurements worked for a CB400F and I'm pleased to report yes, they do. Maybe they're a little long actually (11inch grip area) but they look good on.

Firstly, if anyone is reading this and thinking of drilling your bars and installing your wires inside, have a lot of patients and a friend. It's a prick of a job. Some advice, drill the biggest holes you dare, use lots of silicone/lube and don't try all your wires at once. Stagger them if you can.



This is the clutch side switch. Only 4 wires. I tied a nut onto a bit of string and feed it through. Then I pulled some whipper snipper (weed whacker to the Americans) cable through. The holes I drilling on a drill press. I really should have milled out the center hole as you really need to be able to pull the cables 'along' the tube rather than 'out' of it. I had to strip the black shroud off the wires to get it around the bend.



Masking tape showing the correct positions for everything.



Note the staggered taping of the wires along the the guide cable as to reduce the thickness of the tape.



This was an hour of battling to get one on. Almost the hardest part of building my bike so far I reckon. Just very awkward and frustrating.



I didn't think ahead when I had the drill press and had to drill another hole for the throttle side switch wires to exit. I used a nail punch and then a hand-held electric drill and 'milled' it a bit. As I said above, if you could cut a long rectangular slot here, it'd make things a lot easier.



As the throttle side switch has a lot more wires, I had help from my friends dad Simon. He had some strong nylon cord that he tied to the wires and then we taped and lubed it up.



After a lot of swearing we got it. It helped if we pushed a rod down from the grip end and pushed the wires while pulling from the other end. Here I'm shrinking wrapping the wires.



I have two exit wires on purpose as the ignition sits between them.



Blurry shot sorry. Installed the throttle cables.



I was a little off in my measurements and have a small gap between the grip and switch. It's not the length of the throttle tube as I cut that down. It's that the wire hole is slightly too far up the grip. Given how hard this all was, I can live with 10mm.



I'm still ignoring that massive mess of wires.



All my new cables installed. I'll have to make up a some brackets of the gauges to sit on I think. Right now, I've unscrewed one bolt on each corner so I can rotate the gauges inwards. If that makes sense.









After all the effort of trying to not use clubmans, I'm actually way more into these than the dragbar now. The riding position is way better for me. This is a small bike, I'm tall with long arms so being more forward is a lot better for me. I do like the look to, even if they are a dime a dozen.



A new addition to the shed. My mates dad just got back from an adventure down the Silk Road. The goal was to drive a bunch of old MG's from the new MG plant in China to the original one in the UK. This little beauty made it no worries. The next trip is already in the works. Africa.



Imagine driving a 40 year old car from China, through 'The Stans', Iran, Turkey, Europe and the UK. Fantastic fun.





Alright guys, that's it for now.

I've got to sort my seat out (gonna' try building a custom one from fiberglass I think), rebuild carbs (still a bit intimidated to start this), sort wiring, find a chain guard, pay motor mechanic, sort air breathing system, buy rear-sets (MC Again I think), make bolt on rear frame loop, make gauge mounts, fit muffler onto headers, register, ride.

I want to have this thing on the road by Christmas.

Rick.

[Vampire]

The easiest way to install the centre stand spring is before the rear wheel goes in. Support the bike on the lower frame rails and swing the centre stand above the horizontal. You will find on most vintage Japanese bikes that you can then attach the spring with no tension on it at all. Swing the centre stand back to the vertical and lower the bike onto it. For the side stand, I have a T handle with a hook at the end, and use that to extend the spring with the side stand in the horizontal position where there is the least tension.

[Retro Rocket]

Just bend the spring and put small coins between the sections of the spring, that will just about double its length, put it on and start removing the coins,very simple and no chance of slipping and skinning your fingers.....

Mick

[RickB]

Thanks for the spring advice guys.

The springs were so tight I could only get two slim coins in.

Vampire, you're right. Having the rear wheel off would make it much easier. I'll keep that in mind for next time.

In the end I did it with a long screwdriver. I placed the end in the hook on the stand and slid the spring down the screwdriver. Leverage.

Rick.

[MoMo]

That's the technique that works for me. Use a #3 phillips, put one of the slots over the mount and leverage the spring down.  Nice look with the bars, worth all the work, Larry

[Anti-Johnny]

Looks nice, just read through the whole thread.

[RickB]

G'day guys and girls; just a quick one today.

I got a call from my friend Sash from Deluxe telling me that my front fender was back from the chromer. It wasn't cheap, at $140 but I'd heard chroming was expensive so I was prepared.







It actually doesn't fit on the bracket/brace now. I made just have to bend it a little as the chrome process may has warped it a little. Not big deal I'm sure.

Sash gave me some nice stainless bolts to use but they don't fit so I'll have to find something. I haven't fitted it to the bike yet so I hope I haven't 'chopped' it too much. I didn't measure anything and just guessed as at the time I did it, I didn't have the wheels.

More photos to come later when I fit it.

Rick.

[HedNut]

Ooooooo.... VARY nice!

[RickB]

Hi all,

I went over to my engine mechanics house this afternoon to pay him for some engineering that had been done (cylinder bore, cam chain tensioner bolt threaded, valve work) and that got me all inspired to start on my carbs.

These have been sitting on my desk since I first pulled them however long ago that was (over a year I bet). I have been very intimidated with just how techinical they looked. Well it has to be done so here I go!



Nice open space to work on. Turns out this isn't enough room.



These are the rebuild kits I have. I've been told they're not all that good. Is that true? Do I even need to replace all the needles, jets etc?









Got the bowls off. They were all a bit crudded up but this one was by far the worst.



You can see the crud here too.



Well I broke one of the balance's. Damn it. I've already hit up Steve at 400fourbits for replacements. I still can't get these two bolt off.



Starting to come apart now.



How much further should I take these apart just for cleaning?



This bolt is stuck too!



I want to clean all this too, but there's so much to remember and put back together I'm scared I won't be able to do it.



Called it quits for tonight.

I'm really contemplated getting these hydroblasted and replating all the appropriate bits. I don't want any carb problems. I saw on the excellent CB400F Restoration Project site a photo of the carb parts that are zinc plated. Does anyone else have a detailed list of this or perhaps could point me to some photos of how carbs are supposed to look. What about the carb bodies, rack etc. Is hydroblasting safe or is it ultrasonic cleaning type thing? Perhaps I can clean all the bolts like this (although I'd hate to mix them up)

Anyway, that's it for now, thanks in advance for your help.

Rick.

[RickB]

Hi all,

So before I go into my carburetor problems, here's the good news! I finally found the correct length stainless steel bolts and mounted my fender. It sits a little higher than I would have liked but I can live with it. Sorry for the iphone photos.



I couldn't get one of fender mounting bolts back into the fork lower. With the added thickness of the fender bracket there just wasn't enough room between the rim and the fork lower. Damn it, I'm gonna' have to pull the wheel off. Again.







Ok so carbies.

After I stripped all the hardware off the carbs themselves, I decided that if I'm going to zinc plate everything I might as well do the throttle cam as well. So a quick call to Tim Boughen of the Yahoo CB400F user group gave me everything I needed to know about removing the brass pin that holds the throttle cam shaft in the carburetor rack. I had to drill 1.43mm deep to remove the tapered brass pin. Sounds easy enough on my mates drill press.



I even got an extracting drill bit.



All going smoothly.





It still wouldn't budge. Go deeper.



And the extracting drill bit broke. How the hell a tungsten carbide (or whatever it was made from) drill bit broke in aluminum is for someone smarter than me but either way, I'm screwed.



I tried drilling the drill bit out but just started making a pizza of it. It got worse than this photo. The drill bit is there to stay and the throttle camshaft will just have to be hydroblasted and spray painted with galvanized spray or something. So bummed. Everything is difficult with this bike.

So all the carb bodies and the above parts are with the hydroblaster, I'm dropping all the brackets, linkages and hardware off with the electroplated on the weekend. I actually can't wait to put these all back together.

With all this electroplating talk, I bought a set of used assorted frame bolts that I'll get coated eventually. I'm excited about having shiny bolts! I also picked up a decent enough breather chamber and the original lever style push button gas/petrol cap latch.

I went and spoke to my engine mechanic and paid him for the engineering work that had been done. He said I'll have the motor by Christmas. I have my doubts but I really hope so.

After the carbs go back together then it's making another seat, I'm not happy with mine.

Rick.

[strynboen]

if that are an drill..im donald duck

[HedNut]

UGH... those thigs suck to get out once they break in the hole.
I didn't know they made one's for power tools!?... this is how I use mine.... (gets many miles with my ol' junk)

1: Drill hole in broken bolt
2: Use easy out with a hand wrench turning couterclockwise...she'll grab
3: Magical happenings...

[RickB]

#$%*, that is probably how you're supposed to use them! I'd never used an easy out before, I just used it like a drill bit...  That explains why it broke. Yep, I'm a novice. Lesson learned.

[RickB]

Hi all,

So I've been told I'll have the motor next weekend. So it's going to be a big week of getting what I can ready. The carb bodies aren't back from the hydroblaster and neither are the bolts from the electroplater. I was told this Friday just gone, now I'm being told this coming week. Ahh the joys of restoring a vintage bike. Waiting for parts, waiting for trades.

So today I finally started on the new seat. Yes, I have already gone through this to some degree, but I wasn't happy with the fit. The repo Giuliari seat I had was great quality and Ted from Classic City Cycles couldn't have been more helpful. In the end, that seat is for a 550 or 750, not the much smaller 400. So whilst it fit, it was just a little big and bulbous in the tail.

So after much reading and research, I decided to make my own.



In an important milestone of the bike, my Dad came and helped out. He's one of my best mates so having him around wasn't a surprise or anything, it's just he isn't a massive fan of his eldest son owning a death machine. However I think he's coming around on the idea now that it's looking so damn pretty. Anyway, he's a builder and surveyor, so having someone that's good with measurements sure was handy. It also helps he's repaired a few surfboards in his day so foam is nothing new.



Bike all masked off.



We used some spray-on adhesive to glue some bits together.





My inspiration notes. I'm going for something like the yellow CB50J at lower right. Not too 'humpy' but not too flat either with the padding inlaid.



Getting messy now.



The underside. Trying to cut out the air filter and frame hump so we can sit it flat.



Got the shape down. I achieved this by bending a ruler (which snapped then I used fencing wire). Lot's of measurements. Luckily my mate Marcus was on hand. He did graphics back in high school and knows how to draw a curve.



I'm liking this. It'll sit a tad lower once the fiberglass is on and wrapped around the edges, effectively making the tray hollow and free to sit down and over the frame tubes by a half an inch or so.









More cutting and sanding. I actually only used a standard wood saw and a surfoam rasp file.













So this is where I finished up. I'm pretty happy with it. It's not as square as it could be when looking down it from the rear. The flat seat pan area was just hard to get right. I'd take a bit out of one side, then go too far, and adjust, then repeat. In the end, I was doing more harm than good.

The hump area is pretty good. I screwed up a little at the top of the hump with my initial file mark. I didn't follow the curve correctly. So I'll have to fill that in before glassing it.

You can see I glued some thin card onto the flat surfaces to make it glass a bit smoother. Perhaps I should use something dead flat, like thin cardboard? I also forgot to round off the edges slightly. Otherwise I'm sure those sharp corners on the seat pan will hurt my thighs after a couple minutes or riding.

Those of you that have done this before, have I overlooked anything? Can anyone see any issues with this? I plan to make a thin mold, flip it then fiberglass into that mold so the size doesn't change.

What about the shape? Is the hump too big for the tank still?

Rick.

[MoMo]

Rick,  never done a seat before but it does seem like it is a bit high.  Don't know if it is an illusion or actual but it appears that the hump is higher than the tank.  Could also be that the bike is on the stand.   Just a design opinion.   Keep up the good work, Larry

[RickB]

Back again,

Before I start, I'm trying to replace the o rings in my oil pump. Trouble is the internal part numbers aren't listed on the CMSNL website parts fiche. Without those I'm left trying to determine the internal and external diameter of the o-rings. So far I've been able to find these part numbers.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb400f-australia_model14644/partslist/E01-3.html


1: 41123516000 63mm x 2.5mm (part# 219 on the above linked fiche).
2: 91302-377-000 15mm x 2.5mm (part# 286/287 on the above linked fiche)
3 & 4: 91302044010 (superseded by 91302044013) 6.9mm x 1.5mm (part# 285 on the above linked fiche).
5. 91302-377-000 15mm x 2.5mm (part# 286/287 on the above linked fiche)
6. No part number as Honda don't sell it. However this is a 40mm x 2mm o-ring.

If anyone knows this last one, that would be much appreciated.



So after sleeping on it and returned to the seat this morning and decided it needed more 'meat' cut out of it. So with the help of my mate Quintin we used a hacksaw blade to tighten up the curve. I also took about 10mm off the top of it. It's hard to take photos of a bright white object using a flash but I think it's as good as my unskilled self can get it. I'll try and get the mold made tomorrow I think.





It's sitting up slightly at the front here, but you get the idea. It looks a bit fat in these photos, but in person it doesn't feel as big. I'd love to see a photo of a 400 with a similar hump/daytona style seat.

In addition to my bike and my mate's CB200, the friend who is letting me use his shed has just bought a new mount.









A single 600cc Panther. No idea how many of these are kicking around Australia, but it's a unique bike. That huge 600cc engine makes such a unique sound.

Rick.

[MoMo]

The hump proportion looks more in scale now...Wish I could help with the part, have you tried all the manual links at the top of the forum page?  Larry

[HedNut]

Great work on the styro-seat!! I like the shape rework... bringing it down in height was a great move.  Man I'm excited for you to get this bike going! Gonna be slick!

[supersports400]

Hi,

Nice picture of the oil pump. I'll see what I can do, after all I was there before.

Jensen

[RickB]

Jensen,

Yeah I pinched that image from your excellent 400F engine rebuild thread. I have got a lot of great information from your thread so thank you.

Rick.