Topic: No tinfoil hat here

[BeSeeingYou]

how about SOHC wackos.

now that's just mean. true, but mean. 

Double meaning here.  We are all wacky for our SOHC's after all.

[Ecosse]

wacky. now there's a phase from the past! there was/ is a local radio station, call letters waqy, and in the 70's into the 80's they were known as wacky 102.

i remember being excited to collect their bumper stickers.  sad, i know. but not as sad as me now finding this wiki bit on them and an image of their sticker.

sad.

[edbikerii]

Well, since you're getting silly, I'll just point out that Halliburton, etc. are not "big business".  They don't amount to a hill of beans on the Dow Jones, and the pittance that they made in Iraq wouldn't even pay Soros' electricity bills.

Yes, "big business" has the money, but they have nothing to gain from terrorism, and everything to lose.  No sense there.

Besides, right-wingers HATE BIG GOVERNMENT, so why would they do something to make government bigger, and against a republican administration at that?

LMAO   Using your logic, how about right-wing wackos.  Everyone knows they are the party of big business so they have the money to spare so it's quite plausible.  Now doesn't that sound just as ridiculous?  Now it's about time to inject a little sense into this whole thing.  It is and was the Saudi's stupid!   

Do I have to do this again?  LMAO.  Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel, Dyn Corp, Carlye Group, Lockheed, and the many other defense contractors, all big business, making a killing on the GWOT.  Who was the CEO of Halliburton for may years?  Dick Cheney.  Who is tied to the Carlye Group? The Bush family. Bechtel reads like a Republican Who's Who. Rudy Gulliani and Assoc. making millions in security consulting fees from DHS.  Nothing to gain?

Why would the "wacko lefties" fund a terror operation that could well have taken place under a Gore administration.  Right up to the election of 2000 the Dems where fairly confident of winning.  Are you telling me they put this whole thing together in 9 months after Bush was appointed President?  Take a minute, clear your head and think about that one.

I have never thought that Bush or the Republicans did this either. That isn't the point I am arguing.  I just have to poke holes in these silly arguments and sometimes the best way to do it is to use the same silly logic to show how the "other" side could have done it just as well.    Aside from some fringe nutcases I doubt there is anybody right or left that would hate their country so much as to participate in something this terrible.

You people need to get a grip on facts and logic.  Right wing wackos, left wing wackos, how about SOHC wackos.

[Duke McDukiedook]

That would be great if we had actual forensic evidence on the towers but it seems some shady bureaucrat thought it best to ship all the evidence off to China for disposal!!!!

Most crime scenes get cordoned off, don't they? So they can sift through the evidence with a fine-toothed comb to find out what actually happened? This doesn't bother anyone else?

Too many perfect coincidences just happened to take place on that day to be believeable.

The military just happened to be running the largest wargame in Norcom's history up in Canada/Alaska on 9/11 and left TWO F-16's to protect the entire eastern seaboard. I don't believe in coincidence, man.

[edbikerii]

DD, the WTC site was closed off for YEARS while the search for bodies, investigation and cleanup was going on.

The steel was first sent to Staten Island for further investigation, then most of it was sold as scrap when the investigation was complete.  Some of the steel pieces are still present at various locations around NYC and many surrounding towns as monuments to the deceased.  Certainly no cover-up there.

There were plenty of fighter planes near NYC on that date.  I witnessed several fly over my house on the morning of 9/11/2001.

That would be great if we had actual forensic evidence on the towers but it seems some shady bureaucrat thought it best to ship all the evidence off to China for disposal!!!!

Most crime scenes get cordoned off, don't they? So they can sift through the evidence with a fine-toothed comb to find out what actually happened? This doesn't bother anyone else?

Too many perfect coincidences just happened to take place on that day to be believeable.

The military just happened to be running the largest wargame in Norcom's history up in Canada/Alaska on 9/11 and left TWO F-16's to protect the entire eastern seaboard. I don't believe in coincidence, man.

[Caaveman82]

OK, so you call it "taking it out of context", but I call it "seeing it from a different perspective".

It is quite plausible that there are many left-wing wackos funding terrorism, maybe even funneling money (and instructions) to Al Queda.  Who else would be funding Al Queda's terrorism?  Let's not forget that SOMEBODY IS DEFINITELY DOING IT, or Al Queda would not exist.

When you think about who had the most to gain from terrorism, it makes perfect sense.  I'd just like to thank Chomsky for encouraging us to think about it without the usual "bush conspiracy" bull crap.

Of course you call it seeing things from another perspective, but that's because your defending your argument. I am not punishing you verbally or making fun, that is just the way people argue any more. Fact has nothing to do with anything.

[Duke McDukiedook]

DD, the WTC site was closed off for YEARS while the search for bodies, investigation and cleanup was going on.

The steel was first sent to Staten Island for further investigation, then most of it was sold as scrap when the investigation was complete.  Some of the steel pieces are still present at various locations around NYC and many surrounding towns as monuments to the deceased.  Certainly no cover-up there.

There were plenty of fighter planes near NYC on that date.  I witnessed several fly over my house on the morning of 9/11/2001.

That would be great if we had actual forensic evidence on the towers but it seems some shady bureaucrat thought it best to ship all the evidence off to China for disposal!!!!

Most crime scenes get cordoned off, don't they? So they can sift through the evidence with a fine-toothed comb to find out what actually happened? This doesn't bother anyone else?

Too many perfect coincidences just happened to take place on that day to be believeable.

The military just happened to be running the largest wargame in Norcom's history up in Canada/Alaska on 9/11 and left TWO F-16's to protect the entire eastern seaboard. I don't believe in coincidence, man.

Huh, that's funny because in the documentary that Frontline did and every other article I have read, the structural investigators were only given a few scrap pieces to look at and they admitted they didn't have enough structural material to do a proper failure analysis. The bulk of the material was sent off before analysis could be done to it- this is documented.

Also documented that at the time of that attacks was there were only two fighter birds stationed at Langley AFB, that was it for the entire eastern seaboard. I'm sure after the attacks they scrambled more planes from further west but that was after the events. It might be in the commission report, but they left quite a bit out of facts out of that report.

[BeSeeingYou]

Well, since you're getting silly, I'll just point out that Halliburton, etc. are not "big business".  They don't amount to a hill of beans on the Dow Jones, and the pittance that they made in Iraq wouldn't even pay Soros' electricity bills.

Yes, "big business" has the money, but they have nothing to gain from terrorism, and everything to lose.  No sense there.

Besides, right-wingers HATE BIG GOVERNMENT, so why would they do something to make government bigger, and against a republican administration at that?

LMAO   Using your logic, how about right-wing wackos.  Everyone knows they are the party of big business so they have the money to spare so it's quite plausible.  Now doesn't that sound just as ridiculous?  Now it's about time to inject a little sense into this whole thing.  It is and was the Saudi's stupid!   

Do I have to do this again?  LMAO.  Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel, Dyn Corp, Carlye Group, Lockheed, and the many other defense contractors, all big business, making a killing on the GWOT.  Who was the CEO of Halliburton for may years?  Dick Cheney.  Who is tied to the Carlye Group? The Bush family. Bechtel reads like a Republican Who's Who. Rudy Gulliani and Assoc. making millions in security consulting fees from DHS.  Nothing to gain?

Why would the "wacko lefties" fund a terror operation that could well have taken place under a Gore administration.  Right up to the election of 2000 the Dems where fairly confident of winning.  Are you telling me they put this whole thing together in 9 months after Bush was appointed President?  Take a minute, clear your head and think about that one.

I have never thought that Bush or the Republicans did this either. That isn't the point I am arguing.  I just have to poke holes in these silly arguments and sometimes the best way to do it is to use the same silly logic to show how the "other" side could have done it just as well.    Aside from some fringe nutcases I doubt there is anybody right or left that would hate their country so much as to participate in something this terrible.

You people need to get a grip on facts and logic.  Right wing wackos, left wing wackos, how about SOHC wackos.

Halliburton not big business?  A company that ranks 100 in the Fortune 500 with revenues of around 22 billion dollars.  Sounds big to me but then again I'm not George Soros.  But what does he have to do with any of this?  He has a lot of money and that somehow makes him suspect in financing the 9/11 plot?  Rudy Gulliani made millions trading on his reputation after 9/11.  George Bush used it frighten the country with false connections and lie the country into the war in Iraq.  Huge numbers of people from all sides used it for financial and political gain.  While this is distasteful and in some cases maybe criminal it does not prove they had any hand in perpetrating this tragedy.

I shudder to think of some of you being called for jury duty.  This inability to separate fact from fantasy, lack of critical thought, the bizarre leaps of logic, to believe in anything they read on the internet or hear on talk radio as long as it fits their political prejudices is a little frightening.

You never made any coherent response to my previous post.  I think I am starting to reach bailout point on this thread but it's like a train wreck.  You just can't look away. 

[Ecosse]

wow. getting back to basics, some of ya are talking like the conspiracy of 9/11 is a settled fact. i suggest you read my post where i listed the characteristics of a conspiracy theorist. then take a good look in the mirror. big shocker children: it  is  not  settled  fact,  period.

regardless of who is responsible for 9/11, jfk, moon landing, area 51, the fillings in my teeth picking up radio stations, fluoride in the drinking water, etc... those desperately clinging to this ct mindset, simultaneously criticizing the uneducated/duped masses for our ignorance, should question why you so need to be right as equally as you question the judgment of those who don't eagerly buy into your assertions.

you imply the rest of us are foolishly so willing to believe a half baked story (always conjured by the gov. curiously) but are frustrated when we don't believe your half baked story. hmmmm.... why is it the conspiracy folks tend to be the same ones happily handing over their liberty to the government? gw bush and his cronies are retarded morons but pull off the biggest conspiracy in u.s. history? uh, makes sense to me.



frankly i don't really care if you buy into my beliefs. please continue yours.   

[Caaveman82]

Yeah Ecosse, that's what "they" want you to think. 

[Ecosse]

good point heff. we may not all agree but not all are basing points of view on group think. that goes for any side of a given position.


caave, i was taught long ago by my (leftist new england town's) school system not to question what "they" tell me.

glad i never listened.



sorry, just had to throw that in.   

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yes, Ecosse, please don't lump all the people who don't believe what the establishment says is true and don't question or else you are unpatriotic as wingnut conspiracy theorists.

Did we land on the moon- yes
JFK killed by LHO - no
WTC 7 brought down by fire - no

I just calls 'em the way I sees 'em like Heff says, if I see a bull standing next to a pile of sh1t, i call it what it is, bullsh1t. And if you don't agree with me I usually don't decry you an idiot for not seeing my viewpoint. We can agree to disagree.

And Ed, please stop blaming the lefties and democrats for everything that goes wrong in this system of ours, they (republicans and right-wingers) shoulder as much blame for what is wrong here as the democrats and commies do.

[Ecosse]

Yes, Ecosse, please don't lump all the people who don't believe what the establishment says is true and don't question or else you are unpatriotic as wingnut conspiracy theorists.

Did we land on the moon- yes
JFK killed by LHO - no
WTC 7 brought down by fire - no

 if I see a bull standing next to a pile of sh1t, i call it what it is, bullsh1t.

  poor bull. that was my sh1t.

but there ya go with the establishment bit. i come to my conclusions based on my standard of reason.


tsk, tsk, don't you know the government (ie: the establishment) is our friend? they're trying to help us through this difficult economic time by taxing us into oblivion (including internet commerce, coming soon) after all.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yes, I call a book with the findings by a congressional appointed commission and the corporate media's propaganda to be considered "the establishment".

What do you call it?

I get it, you have your own viewpoint, so do I, so does Heff, and Caave, apparantley Rush and Hannity determines most of Ed's stances on everything.

Hopefully we can all get along? 


 

[Ecosse]

we all love those sohc/4's so there's gotta be some good in all of us. 

btw: hate to shock ya, but ed's views are not necessarily in the minority. and tolerance is for everyone, of everyone, no? celebrate diversity and all that.



you meet the nicest people on a honda... unless it's a furry. then they're baaaad.

[edbikerii]

There's no lack of facts here.  FACT is, it makes a whole helluva lot more sense for the left-wingers to have funded Al Queda to commit terrorism against the republican Bush administration than it ever made for the Bush administration to have "masterminded" the massive conspiracy to destroy the WTC, the Pentagon and an airplane over PA.

More facts:  Al Queda is funded.  Government grew significantly as a result of the 9/11 terrorism.  Left-wingers prefer big government to small.

Another fact:  You are 26 years old, and have never seen a conservative administration in office during your entire 8-year adult life.  You probably think that GWB represents conservatives.  That is very, very far from the truth.

OK, so you call it "taking it out of context", but I call it "seeing it from a different perspective".

It is quite plausible that there are many left-wing wackos funding terrorism, maybe even funneling money (and instructions) to Al Queda.  Who else would be funding Al Queda's terrorism?  Let's not forget that SOMEBODY IS DEFINITELY DOING IT, or Al Queda would not exist.

When you think about who had the most to gain from terrorism, it makes perfect sense.  I'd just like to thank Chomsky for encouraging us to think about it without the usual "bush conspiracy" bull crap.

Of course you call it seeing things from another perspective, but that's because your defending your argument. I am not punishing you verbally or making fun, that is just the way people argue any more. Fact has nothing to do with anything.

[edbikerii]

You can keep your stupid comments about fact and fantasy and jury duty qualifications to yourself.  You aren't even capable of (or willing to?) looking at a simple financial statement to check the facts.  What makes you think you have the mental capacity to comprehend any 9/11 conspiracy?

First of all, Halliburton only sold $18 Billion worth of stuff and services (not $22B, as you stated).  After cost of goods sold, their gross profit was only $4 Billion.  Much of that was paid out to shareholders (that's pension funds, IRAs and 401Ks mostly) and the rest re-invested in the business.  All you need to do is look at the financials.  That ain't even a hill of beans, and certainly isn't worthy of a massive global conspiracy, dude.  GM got five times that much out of our pockets from Obama already, and they STILL WENT BANKRUPT.  GM's gonna get another $30B out of our pockets soon, too, and they didn't even need to buy four box-cutters and 1/2 of a flight training course.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=HAL

Number 100 of the top 500 sure doesn't make Halliburton the representative of "Big Business", either.  That makes them the smallest of the top 100 companies in the world.  Also makes them significantly smaller than 99% of the top 100 companies in the world.

George Soros is known for:
a) being incredibly rich, so rich that nobody knows where he hides his money because he's so sneaky
b) being a flaming left-winger
c) instigating a revolution in Georgia (former Soviet country)
d) making fortunes in foreign currency trading.

Doesn't that sound like a guy who's not afraid of throwing a few bones to Al Quaeda just so he could profit from the currency fluctuations that resulted from the 9/11 incidents?

Ever heard of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy?  That's what you call assuming that Rudy G. had anything to do with 9/11 because he made a couple measly million dollars in security consulting after the fact.

Feel free to "bailout", as you say.  You aren't making any valid arguments anyway.

Halliburton not big business?  A company that ranks 100 in the Fortune 500 with revenues of around 22 billion dollars.  Sounds big to me but then again I'm not George Soros.  But what does he have to do with any of this?  He has a lot of money and that somehow makes him suspect in financing the 9/11 plot?  Rudy Gulliani made millions trading on his reputation after 9/11.  George Bush used it frighten the country with false connections and lie the country into the war in Iraq.  Huge numbers of people from all sides used it for financial and political gain.  While this is distasteful and in some cases maybe criminal it does not prove they had any hand in perpetrating this tragedy.

I shudder to think of some of you being called for jury duty.  This inability to separate fact from fantasy, lack of critical thought, the bizarre leaps of logic, to believe in anything they read on the internet or hear on talk radio as long as it fits their political prejudices is a little frightening.

You never made any coherent response to my previous post.  I think I am starting to reach bailout point on this thread but it's like a train wreck.  You just can't look away. 

[BeSeeingYou]

You can keep your stupid comments about fact and fantasy and jury duty qualifications to yourself.  You aren't even capable of (or willing to?) looking at a simple financial statement to check the facts.  What makes you think you have the mental capacity to comprehend any 9/11 conspiracy?

First of all, Halliburton only sold $18 Billion worth of stuff and services (not $22B, as you stated).  After cost of goods sold, their gross profit was only $4 Billion.  Much of that was paid out to shareholders (that's pension funds, IRAs and 401Ks mostly) and the rest re-invested in the business.  All you need to do is look at the financials.  That ain't even a hill of beans, and certainly isn't worthy of a massive global conspiracy, dude.  GM got five times that much out of our pockets from Obama already, and they STILL WENT BANKRUPT.  GM's gonna get another $30B out of our pockets soon, too, and they didn't even need to buy four box-cutters and 1/2 of a flight training course.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=HAL

Number 100 of the top 500 sure doesn't make Halliburton the representative of "Big Business", either.  That makes them the smallest of the top 100 companies in the world.  Also makes them significantly smaller than 99% of the top 100 companies in the world.

George Soros is known for:
a) being incredibly rich, so rich that nobody knows where he hides his money because he's so sneaky
b) being a flaming left-winger
c) instigating a revolution in Georgia (former Soviet country)
d) making fortunes in foreign currency trading.

Doesn't that sound like a guy who's not afraid of throwing a few bones to Al Quaeda just so he could profit from the currency fluctuations that resulted from the 9/11 incidents?

Ever heard of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy?  That's what you call assuming that Rudy G. had anything to do with 9/11 because he made a couple measly million dollars in security consulting after the fact.

Feel free to "bailout", as you say.  You aren't making any valid arguments anyway.

Halliburton not big business?  A company that ranks 100 in the Fortune 500 with revenues of around 22 billion dollars.  Sounds big to me but then again I'm not George Soros.  But what does he have to do with any of this?  He has a lot of money and that somehow makes him suspect in financing the 9/11 plot?  Rudy Gulliani made millions trading on his reputation after 9/11.  George Bush used it frighten the country with false connections and lie the country into the war in Iraq.  Huge numbers of people from all sides used it for financial and political gain.  While this is distasteful and in some cases maybe criminal it does not prove they had any hand in perpetrating this tragedy.

I shudder to think of some of you being called for jury duty.  This inability to separate fact from fantasy, lack of critical thought, the bizarre leaps of logic, to believe in anything they read on the internet or hear on talk radio as long as it fits their political prejudices is a little frightening.

You never made any coherent response to my previous post.  I think I am starting to reach bailout point on this thread but it's like a train wreck.  You just can't look away. 

Obviously I don't have your "mental capacity".    18 billion or 22 billion that's not the point.  I just happened to read it in Fortune magazine, maybe it was from the year before. The point is it's just an example of a big company that has profited from the GWOT.  I never said Rudy G. had anything to do with 9/11 but was using him as an example of how using your logic you can tie any number of people or companies to the 9/11 plot.  Maybe you did not get that.  I will try again with a different example. 

I think it was 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens.  The Bush family has probably the closet ties to ruling elite of Saudi Arabia, including the Bin Laden family, than any other political or business family in the U.S.  So close that the then Saudi ambassador was know as Bandar Bush and treated like an adopted son.  After the attack the Bush administration arranged for members of the Bin Laden family and other Saudi nationals to fly out of the country, against the wishes of the FBI, when all other air traffic was grounded.  George H.W. Bush gained quite a bit of political capital from the relatively easy victory in the first Gulf War but did not use it to push his agenda back here at home.  In an interview before the election of 2000 George W. Bush stated that if he had a chance to be a successful "War President" he would use that political capital to push his conservative agenda.  They were looking for an excuse to invade Iraq from day one, thinking it would be another easy victory, and 9/11 gave them that excuse.  Now their vision of an easy victory did not pan out but that's not the point.  So he had the motive and the means (access to the Saudi security apparatus with it's ties to Al Qaeda at that time).  See how easy all this is?  Now these are all documented facts and see how I can string them all together and make a case that the Bush Administration planned the 9/11 attacks.  It's at least as good or better than any of your rationals.  Now I will admit I have nothing but contempt for the Bush Administration but I do not believe that they had anything to do with planning or financing the 9/11 attacks.  I am not blinded by my political prejudices like you seem to be. 

And to show that I can be even handed I am working up a rational of how Al Gore and Global Warming are responsible for the 9/11 attacks.  You will probably love that one.

One more thing.  I will even use your own words but just insert a different name and activity.  "Ever heard of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy?  That's what you call assuming George Soros had anything to do with 9/11 because he made a couple of measly million dollars in currency trading after the fact."

[edbikerii]

Once again, 18 billion was REVENUE.  NOT PROFIT.  $4B is trivial.

As for the "Bush administration arranging" for the Bin Ladens to get out, SO WHAT?  Are they all guilty of terrorism because one of their relatives committed terrorism?  They called the embassy to arrange to get themselves out of the country because they were AFRAID THEY WOULD BE LYNCHED.  They were finally evacuated THREE DAYS LATER, when ALL AIRPORTS REOPENED, on a private charter jet (hey, they can afford it, but it doesn't make them terrorists)  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/30/archive/main313048.shtml.  Conspiracy wackos have been trying to make something of this for eight years, but the fact is THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH HELPING PEOPLE, EVEN IF THEY HAVE RELATIVES THAT ARE TERRORISTS.  If there was anything questionable here, they would have been flown out BEFORE 9/11, NOT THREE DAYS AFTER.  DUH.

Of course I'm not stating that George Soros commited the terrorism.  What I'm saying is that it is far more likely that left-wing conspirators like George Soros funnelled cash to Al Quaeda, who obviously DID commit the terrorism.  Yes, there was a conspiracy, and Al Quaeda executed it successfully.  Somebody funded Al Quaeda, and they have not yet been exposed.  It just doesn't make any sense that republicans or "big business" would do it, because they had nothing to gain, and EVERYTHING TO LOSE.  Bush was already president.

Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Al Gore, Albright, and lots of other democrats had been spouting on and on for years about how dangerous Iraq was, etc., etc.  Hillary herself voted for it, too.  Not to mention that there was NO LEFT-WING DISSENT when the congress voted to invake Iraq.

Here's another thing to think about:  Why demolish the WTC buildings at all?  Isn't flying huge airplanes into the buildings, killing hundreds of people in our proudest icon of financial strength enough terrorism to outrage America?  Why do all of you conspiracy theory wackos seem to think our government planted explosives in the buildings just to ensure that they fell?   Why would that matter at all, and why would our government be so stupid as to risk getting discovered?  JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!!!!!

Obviously I don't have your "mental capacity".    18 billion or 22 billion that's not the point.  I just happened to read it in Fortune magazine, maybe it was from the year before. The point is it's just an example of a big company that has profited from the GWOT.  I never said Rudy G. had anything to do with 9/11 but was using him as an example of how using your logic you can tie any number of people or companies to the 9/11 plot.  Maybe you did not get that.  I will try again with a different example. 

I think it was 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens.  The Bush family has probably the closet ties to ruling elite of Saudi Arabia, including the Bin Laden family, than any other political or business family in the U.S.  So close that the then Saudi ambassador was know as Bandar Bush and treated like an adopted son.  After the attack the Bush administration arranged for members of the Bin Laden family and other Saudi nationals to fly out of the country, against the wishes of the FBI, when all other air traffic was grounded.  George H.W. Bush gained quite a bit of political capital from the relatively easy victory in the first Gulf War but did not use it to push his agenda back here at home.  In an interview before the election of 2000 George W. Bush stated that if he had a chance to be a successful "War President" he would use that political capital to push his conservative agenda.  They were looking for an excuse to invade Iraq from day one, thinking it would be another easy victory, and 9/11 gave them that excuse.  Now their vision of an easy victory did not pan out but that's not the point.  So he had the motive and the means (access to the Saudi security apparatus with it's ties to Al Qaeda at that time).  See how easy all this is?  Now these are all documented facts and see how I can string them all together and make a case that the Bush Administration planned the 9/11 attacks.  It's at least as good or better than any of your rationals.  Now I will admit I have nothing but contempt for the Bush Administration but I do not believe that they had anything to do with planning or financing the 9/11 attacks.  I am not blinded by my political prejudices like you seem to be. 

And to show that I can be even handed I am working up a rational of how Al Gore and Global Warming are responsible for the 9/11 attacks.  You will probably love that one.

One more thing.  I will even use your own words but just insert a different name and activity.  "Ever heard of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy?  That's what you call assuming George Soros had anything to do with 9/11 because he made a couple of measly million dollars in currency trading after the fact."

[Bob Wessner]

If you all wish to keep any dialogue on this issue going/flowing, do so without reference to "stupid," "mental capacity," etc. Otherwise it will be locked. Tone down the emotion.

[BeSeeingYou]

Once again, 18 billion was REVENUE.  NOT PROFIT.  $4B is trivial.

As for the "Bush administration arranging" for the Bin Ladens to get out, SO WHAT?  Are they all guilty of terrorism because one of their relatives committed terrorism?  They called the embassy to arrange to get themselves out of the country because they were AFRAID THEY WOULD BE LYNCHED.  They were finally evacuated THREE DAYS LATER, when ALL AIRPORTS REOPENED, on a private charter jet (hey, they can afford it, but it doesn't make them terrorists)  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/30/archive/main313048.shtml.  Conspiracy wackos have been trying to make something of this for eight years, but the fact is THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH HELPING PEOPLE, EVEN IF THEY HAVE RELATIVES THAT ARE TERRORISTS.  If there was anything questionable here, they would have been flown out BEFORE 9/11, NOT THREE DAYS AFTER.  DUH.

Of course I'm not stating that George Soros commited the terrorism.  What I'm saying is that it is far more likely that left-wing conspirators like George Soros funnelled cash to Al Quaeda, who obviously DID commit the terrorism.  Yes, there was a conspiracy, and Al Quaeda executed it successfully.  Somebody funded Al Quaeda, and they have not yet been exposed.  It just doesn't make any sense that republicans or "big business" would do it, because they had nothing to gain, and EVERYTHING TO LOSE.  Bush was already president.

Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Al Gore, Albright, and lots of other democrats had been spouting on and on for years about how dangerous Iraq was, etc., etc.  Hillary herself voted for it, too.  Not to mention that there was NO LEFT-WING DISSENT when the congress voted to invake Iraq.

Here's another thing to think about:  Why demolish the WTC buildings at all?  Isn't flying huge airplanes into the buildings, killing hundreds of people in our proudest icon of financial strength enough terrorism to outrage America?  Why do all of you conspiracy theory wackos seem to think our government planted explosives in the buildings just to ensure that they fell?   Why would that matter at all, and why would our government be so stupid as to risk getting discovered?  JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!!!!!

Obviously I don't have your "mental capacity".    18 billion or 22 billion that's not the point.  I just happened to read it in Fortune magazine, maybe it was from the year before. The point is it's just an example of a big company that has profited from the GWOT.  I never said Rudy G. had anything to do with 9/11 but was using him as an example of how using your logic you can tie any number of people or companies to the 9/11 plot.  Maybe you did not get that.  I will try again with a different example. 

I think it was 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens.  The Bush family has probably the closet ties to ruling elite of Saudi Arabia, including the Bin Laden family, than any other political or business family in the U.S.  So close that the then Saudi ambassador was know as Bandar Bush and treated like an adopted son.  After the attack the Bush administration arranged for members of the Bin Laden family and other Saudi nationals to fly out of the country, against the wishes of the FBI, when all other air traffic was grounded.  George H.W. Bush gained quite a bit of political capital from the relatively easy victory in the first Gulf War but did not use it to push his agenda back here at home.  In an interview before the election of 2000 George W. Bush stated that if he had a chance to be a successful "War President" he would use that political capital to push his conservative agenda.  They were looking for an excuse to invade Iraq from day one, thinking it would be another easy victory, and 9/11 gave them that excuse.  Now their vision of an easy victory did not pan out but that's not the point.  So he had the motive and the means (access to the Saudi security apparatus with it's ties to Al Qaeda at that time).  See how easy all this is?  Now these are all documented facts and see how I can string them all together and make a case that the Bush Administration planned the 9/11 attacks.  It's at least as good or better than any of your rationals.  Now I will admit I have nothing but contempt for the Bush Administration but I do not believe that they had anything to do with planning or financing the 9/11 attacks.  I am not blinded by my political prejudices like you seem to be. 

And to show that I can be even handed I am working up a rational of how Al Gore and Global Warming are responsible for the 9/11 attacks.  You will probably love that one.

One more thing.  I will even use your own words but just insert a different name and activity.  "Ever heard of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy?  That's what you call assuming George Soros had anything to do with 9/11 because he made a couple of measly million dollars in currency trading after the fact."

Yeah, that's what I said revenue.  You seem to be the only one confusing revenue and profit.  Once again you seem to miss the point entirely.  You state that because someone who is either a Democrat or has ties to the Democratic party and possibly profited in the aftermath of  the 9/11 attack then that person may have been somehow involved.  So I provide you with examples of Republicans and their supporters who also profited  financially or politically from the aftermath of 9/11.  Using your logic would they not then be under suspicion of involvement too?  Of course not because they are Republicans.  Only Democrats could be involved.   You are so blinded by your political prejudices that you are the one that makes absolutely no sense.  I guess I have said all I need to say to you on this matter and see no point in responding further. 

Lets hear some stories of how they blew up the buildings instead.  Anybody?

[edbikerii]

No thanks, Bob.  I've said my peace, made my points & I'm moving on.

If you all wish to keep any dialogue on this issue going/flowing, do so without reference to "stupid," "mental capacity," etc. Otherwise it will be locked. Tone down the emotion.

[seaweb11]

Where's the lock button? I know it's here somewhere, Bob, can't find it,,,,,,,,is it embedded in the HTML? I'll find it........
I know,.........ignore it, but it's a lot like 2 people fighting in another room in your house. You know when they come out, the house will feel different

Enough you guys. Ride and smile















No Moon landing....................

[Caaveman82]

Edward,

    FACT: All arms, money, and anything else related to killing or blowing people up came from a Republican Senator from Texas during the cold war. Chew on it for a moment.

    FACT: My age has nothing to do with your bitterness, so let's just let it alone eh? You must hate kids as this is not the first time you referenced my age equating to a lack of knowledge.

    FACT: I don't care what your opinion is you are entitled to it. The only problem for you is that I am also entitled to mine, so instead of being an old bitter insulting DB, why don't you just get over yourself and your VAST knowledge on liberal scum and have a conversation with the rest of us like a civilized ADULT?


But what do I know, I'm only 26.

[upperlake04]

..it's a lot like 2 people fighting in another room in your house. You know when they come out, the house will feel different

Nicely said SW....   CAAVEGUY GO STAND IN THE CORNER