Topic: Deep sump Oil pans for CB 750

[754]

Finally got to see one in real life today. Actually 1080 and I pulled it off my 69 lower end I got.

 Anyone seen one, maybe more than 1 company made them?

 Here is what I know, we will try to post a pic soon.
 Well made, deep fins & nice design.
 holds probably 1/2 qt extra or more.

 Have found 70s ad for them, from Bowmans,
 in Montrose Calif , same folks that built Carbtune back in the 70s.. the one that fit under your sidecover. The deep sumps were 24.95 postpaid back then!

 Oh, and they are deep enough to hold all the bits when you throw a rod..

[jaknight]

Well,

When you get some for $24.95, let me know, I'll jump right in..

Seriously, that does sound pretty slick.  You've got my interest up.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[lordmoonpie]

Got one on my CR750 - beautiful workmanship. Came from Down Under on flea-bay and I suspect made/copied in Australia too. Might be something Terry knows about...?

[fishhead]

Pics?

   A deep sump oil pan on a dry sump motor just doesnt make sense to me.
 On my KZ 900(wet sump), the deep sump oil pan needed a oil pump extender to put the oil pick up to the new lower sump bottom.(pictured)
 I would imagine that with out an extender, the oil would slosh around more an not be picked up as efficiently (unless the pan is internally baffled).

 Pics! Pics!

[MRieck]

Pics?

   A deep sump oil pan on a dry sump motor just doesnt make sense to me.
 On my KZ 900(wet sump), the deep sump oil pan needed a oil pump extender to put the oil pick up to the new lower sump bottom.(pictured)
 I would imagine that with out an extender, the oil would slosh around more an not be picked up as efficiently (unless the pan is internally baffled).

 Pics! Pics!

I agree.

[Steve F]

Pics?

   A deep sump oil pan on a dry sump motor just doesnt make sense to me.
 On my KZ 900(wet sump), the deep sump oil pan needed a oil pump extender to put the oil pick up to the new lower sump bottom.(pictured)
 I would imagine that with out an extender, the oil would slosh around more an not be picked up as efficiently (unless the pan is internally baffled).

 Pics! Pics!

I agree.  Why bother with a deep pan with a dry sump engine?  It either means an extended pick-up, or you're just having the extra oil collecting in the pan.

[MCRider]

Pics?

   A deep sump oil pan on a dry sump motor just doesnt make sense to me.
 On my KZ 900(wet sump), the deep sump oil pan needed a oil pump extender to put the oil pick up to the new lower sump bottom.(pictured)
 I would imagine that with out an extender, the oil would slosh around more an not be picked up as efficiently (unless the pan is internally baffled).

 Pics! Pics!

I agree.  Why bother with a deep pan with a dry sump engine?  It either means an extended pick-up, or you're just having the extra oil collecting in the pan.

I think the idea is more surface area for more cooling of the oil. Still, doesn't excite me.

[Geeto67]

I have several of them new I got from a big parts buyout. One is made by Beck Arnly of all companies - mostly known for british sports car parts and the finned dyno covers for bikes.

I inquired a while ago about having molds made up to remake them and the price nearly made me drop my colon. I thought about doing it in a lost mold cast method (like sandcasting) but I just don't have the time to make it cheap enough to make it worth it.

What I was told as to why they work is that on some of the bigger bore and higher compression race motors the engine is draining the pan as fast as it can fill up or faster at WOT redline and having that extra 1/2 to 1 quart means that the oil tank is not draining out faster than it can refill. I cannot confirm this but this is how it was told to me, by an old cb750 drag racer. He also said the motor would last a full season with the pan, half of one without. 

[754]

I thnk Beck Arnly was a Dist, like Rocky, and may have just sold them in their own packaging.


 Seeing this leaves a few unanswered questions,
 I thought it needs a pickup extender (did not have).

 I often wondered what happens to oil pressure during long wheelies? Cant remember if my buddy who did them had a guage, but motor seemed to live!

 Things like that, hard to tell what is happening downt there... not even going to mention if it had an oil cooler or not, or what oil it used.
 

[fishhead]

I think the idea is more surface area for more cooling of the oil.

With an oil pump extender, there would be no added capacity of oil in the pan as it would be sucked up and returned to the tank and not sit in the pan.
 
  Oil sitting in the pan or the oil tank is doing no good (JMO, it is just waiting to be pushed into the motor to do its job).
 
 More fins( or larger fins) in the pan would make sense as it would help cool the oil.

 I believe the 750A pan will fit the K and F(not positive, some one correct me). The auto is a wet sump and would add oil capacity, but it still doesnt make sense to me to have oil sitting in the sump in a dry sump system.

 What does make sense to me is have an extended oil pan and extended oil pump pick up with the pan shaped to "funnel" the oil to the pick up (concave shaped pan with the oil pump pick up at the lowest point of the pan).
 

PICS!!

 

[754]

I will try to clean it today and get it over to 1080whocanpostpics.

 It has deep fins on the bottom and some on part of the inside.

 I dont extra oil sitting down there is a windage problem, the main drawback IMO of wetsumps.

[lordmoonpie]

I have to say the jury has always been out for me on this too- even though I do have it fitted currently, the bike isn't running yet so I could always alter it. I have an external oil cooler and use the oil to pressurise the primary drive chain tensioner too so I could do with extra oil in the system I figure. Maybe to benefit the sump needs to be primed so the pump has a constant head to go at?

Anyways - views appreciated, here's the pic...

[Steve F]

Pics?

   A deep sump oil pan on a dry sump motor just doesnt make sense to me.
 On my KZ 900(wet sump), the deep sump oil pan needed a oil pump extender to put the oil pick up to the new lower sump bottom.(pictured)
 I would imagine that with out an extender, the oil would slosh around more an not be picked up as efficiently (unless the pan is internally baffled).

 Pics! Pics!

I agree.  Why bother with a deep pan with a dry sump engine?  It either means an extended pick-up, or you're just having the extra oil collecting in the pan.

I think the idea is more surface area for more cooling of the oil. Still, doesn't excite me.

Well, that would make sense, but I would rather just install a cooler.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Let's not discount the "coolness factor" or the "I have one and you don't" factor. Which brings me to the fact I don't have one. Donations accepted 

Would/should having extra oil volume help keep the oil temperature down?!

[fishhead]

I have to say the jury has always been out for me on this too- even though I do have it fitted currently, the bike isn't running yet so I could always alter it. I have an external oil cooler and use the oil to pressurise the primary drive chain tensioner too so I could do with extra oil in the system I figure. Maybe to benefit the sump needs to be primed so the pump has a constant head to go at?

Anyways - views appreciated, here's the pic...

Do you remember if it had any baffles on the inside?

[MRieck]

Let's not discount the "coolness factor" or the "I have one and you don't" factor. Which brings me to the fact I don't have one. Donations accepted 

Would/should having extra oil volume help keep the oil temperature down?!

It's under the engine and out of sight Jerry....you'd have to tell somebody it's there (kinda like having a 5mm valve conversion kit in a 750 cylinder head)

[MCRider]

Let's not discount the "coolness factor" or the "I have one and you don't" factor. Which brings me to the fact I don't have one. Donations accepted 

Would/should having extra oil volume help keep the oil temperature down?!

It's under the engine and out of sight Jerry....you'd have to tell somebody it's there (kinda like having a 5mm valve conversion kit in a 750 cylinder head)

Well I don't ride as much and will probably never race again, so the coolness factor is a positive for me.

Don't worry Mike I would tell everyone, but would want to make sure I really had it in case someone wanted to look.

Still, a deep sump isn't on my list...yet.

[lordmoonpie]

Do you remember if it had any baffles on the inside?

I've got a feeling it didn't but it was a long while ago. I'm thinking of replacing it with the standard one now....

Mike - what do you think? Should I leave it on or should I replace it with standard - I value your opinion if you care to share

[754]

It does not have baffles per se, it does have large fins on the inside, that run inline with the frame rails. They are about as deep as your fingernail inside and outside.

 What  , you dont have folks crawling around on their knees looking at your motor?
 Heres how;
Run turbo pipes  up high, going to a big megaphone. Then run big honking Webers, run a smooth stock looking filter, chrome your covers but shave off the lettering and lines from the valvecover, then hex your barrels & head, then run nice red wires thru the cylinder centre holes coming from coils hidden in the starter hole....

 then they will look at your engine..

 and with no pipes below the frame rails it will be noticeable.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Let's not discount the "coolness factor" or the "I have one and you don't" factor. Which brings me to the fact I don't have one. Donations accepted 

Would/should having extra oil volume help keep the oil temperature down?!

It's under the engine and out of sight Jerry....you'd have to tell somebody it's there (kinda like having a 5mm valve conversion kit in a 750 cylinder head)

So what you're saying is that I shouldn't also have those special CB900F sidecover badges made to go along with the 5mm valves in the JMR Stage 4 900 head?? dammit!!

[754]

Still no pics but I have more info,
 The actual sump depth, is not as much deeper than stock as you would think, looking at the pan

 Stock the bottom is about 1.32 deep, deep sump just under 1.5, so at most 4mm or less difference.

 The stock one though steps up as soon as you get away from the sump, the oil runs sorta downhill to the screen. the deep is more flat.

 The internal fins inside the deep one actually are at about a 40 or 45 degree angle to the frame centreline. looks like this somewhat prevents oil running from the screen under acceleration.

..................................................................
Now to add to the mix, I would have to say the 77/78F pan, more resmbles the deep than the early stocker... hmmmm F model has deeper fins than early, but not as deep as the deep sump.

 So wether you think the deep is beneficial or not, you got to wonder what Honda was thinking on the mods to the F pan..

..................................................................................
Added; should mention, other that chroming or making from billet, this piece could not be made much nicer.  Compared to the way some aftermarket stuff is made, this piece is way up thereon the scale..

[lordmoonpie]

Oh Ok then - I'll levae mine on! 

Actually - I might just take it off to see if it did have internal fins...

[MRieck]

Do you remember if it had any baffles on the inside?

I've got a feeling it didn't but it was a long while ago. I'm thinking of replacing it with the standard one now....

Mike - what do you think? Should I leave it on or should I replace it with standard - I value your opinion if you care to share

Sorry I missed your post Lord. I'd leave it in though an extended pickup would have been nice.

[lordmoonpie]

Cheers Mike - if there's no rain this weekend I might just start her up!
(Rain is usual in Manchester.... )

[MRieck]

Cheers Mike - if there's no rain this weekend I might just start her up!
(Rain is usual in Manchester.... )

OH BOY!!!!!! I hope Sam hears it in Warrington