Author Topic: Fried Charging System  (Read 1239 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline danielcgordon

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 61
  • Loving to Learn
Fried Charging System
« on: June 02, 2009, 11:20:12 PM »
I just bought my first bike and am both novice with motorcycles and mechanics...

It obvious that I need to replace most/all of the charging system.

I'm not sure if its my inexperience or what...

The wires going to the rectifier are fried and bare.

There are 3 connectors on both the inside and outside of the charging system, rectifier is one, by the diagram it looks like the starter switch?

Is that correct and what is the third? I can't seem to tell? The winker relay maybe?

There are bare wires on all of these...

I'm willing to learn, is this something better left for pros/someone with a little more experience?

Thank you all in advance and I must go out of my way to thank the man who sent me to this site!!

Dan

Dan

Offline martino1972

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,227
  • and still a expert welder,period...
Re: Fried Charging System
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 11:36:28 PM »
welcome to our insanity...


it would be very handy if you could tell us what bike you have first.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36933.0  (my bobber)

Offline danielcgordon

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 61
  • Loving to Learn
Re: Fried Charging System
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 07:47:10 AM »
Hey sorry about that!!

I meant to have it on there.

I have a 74 CB550

 ;D

Dan
Dan

Offline Patrick

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,398
Re: Fried Charging System
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2009, 08:00:45 AM »
Leave it to the pros?

I was once terrified of the electrical system on my bikes (mostly 750s). I had no background in anything electrical, other than occasionally shocking myself turning on lamps. But, if you just look at it a little the electrical system on these old bikes is actually pretty basic. Everything is color coded. Since every wire does something specific it's pretty easy to figure out what the problem is when problems arise. Do it yourself. You will get a great deal of satisfaction out of your eventual success.

That said, burned and bare wires aren't good. It likely indicates a short somewhere. But first, find out which parts of the electrical system do work (do the lights come on, do the winkers flash, does the starter crank the bike, do the idiot lights come on when you turn the key, if the bike starts, does the battery charge) Once you have figured out what doesn't need to be fixed, then work backwards and figure out how to fix what is broken.

At this point you haven't told us what problem you are trying to solve, other than not liking the look of your wires.

Patrick
1970 CB750 K0
1982 VF750S Sabre
1987 VT1100 Shadow
1979 Yamaha XS11
1969 Yamaha DT1B
etc.

Offline danielcgordon

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 61
  • Loving to Learn
Re: Fried Charging System
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 08:19:43 AM »
Well I'm pretty embarrassed by this...

I bought the bike Sunday working, got it home Monday and needed to charge the battery. Well I know very little but charging a battery is OK! Hooked it up to my running Jeep and melted all of the wires in what I've come to learn to be the charging system. I'm sure I need a new battery but I'll find that out today for certain.

Leading form the battery the wire goes to the starter switch, the red wire leading into that has melted insulation. The wires coming from the rectifier going are melted and bare, I'm sure that will need to be replaced as well. I've been looking at the wiring diagram since I'm not even sure what all the parts are (yet).

I'm hoping that I don't have to replace all of those parts, but if I do than so be it.

Looking at the wiring diagrams in the manual I wasn't able to figure out for sure what they all connected to.

There are 3 harnesses that plug in on both the left and right side. 1 side I can see with the left side cover off and the other I can see with the seat up.

Lookin at the diagram it only shows the left side of the bike...any idea what those other 2 harnesses are for? Are they the same for both sides?

Dan

-I was always taught to fail forward and I'm not afraid to ask questions showing my ignorance ...enthusiasm for my first bike overwhelmed me and I failed...thanks to all willing to help me learn and move forward-
Dan

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,140
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Fried Charging System
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 09:33:32 AM »
Only reason for that to happen is if you connected the "Jump" battery in reverse,

Easiest thing is to get a complete electrical panel from a wreckers or ebay, any 550 will do that has the safety interlock unit on it. You could just get rectifier and replace that all else should be ok just sometimes easier to unbolt the complete thing

Also you will need to carefully open up the loom and re-insulate any wires with melted plastic then re wrap loom and you should be ok
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,802
Re: Fried Charging System
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 10:11:28 AM »
Hooking up the battery with reverse polarity, connect the two battery terminals together at the rectifier.  All the current available at the battery terminals (such as a car batteries' 600 plus amps) attempt to flow into that circuit.  Since small diameter wires cannot carry that much current without generating heat, they make enough to melt the plastic insulation on those wires and any wires that are touching them.  If left long enough the wires themselves will heat to their melting point.  When they part to break the circuit, the event is self terminating.  Since reverse biasing the rectifier basically connects all wires going to it together, the alternator stator wires (Yellow) Can also carry overcurrents that melt their insulation too, along with any bystander wires in contact.

The rectifier itself may be damaged as the Diodes aren't rated to handle such high currents.  They may have fused (welded themselves together), opened, or even survived because some other circuit components in the current loop failed first.

Anyway, all wires between the battery and the rectifier (and the alternator stator), must be tracked down and visually examined for heat damage.  All the connectors in the path must also be inspected for heat damage.

The Battery POS main cable is a larger gauge wire than most of the bike wiring as it has to routinely carry 120 Amps to the starter motor.  The charging and bike electrical power are tapped off the connection point at the starter motor solenoid.  From this point to the rectifier is your expected trace route and examination path.

Since current flows in loop, the Green wire path from the rectifier back to the frame connection up at the ignition coil mount must also be inspected/repaired (along with any wires making incidental contact and have their insulation damaged by the adjacent heat source).

The block connector that contain the yellow wires to the alternator stator, also contain wires for the alternator field coil wires, neutral switch, and oil pressure sender.  If the Yellow wire insulation is melted, other wires in contact may also be damaged.

I don't know which wire diagram you are using.  But, I recommend the one that is in the CB500/550 Honda Shop Manual (pg 145).

I repaired a bike with this type of damage a few years ago.  (I bought the bike from a salvage yard.)  It took about eight hours of work, and I had a spare harness to rob the needed color coded wires necessary to complete the repair.

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline danielcgordon

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 61
  • Loving to Learn
Re: Fried Charging System
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2009, 12:29:01 PM »
I'm guessing that I must have reversed the polarity on the battery...everybody keeps saying that is the case.

I ordered a new rectifier, the wires are completely bare on both ends of the connectors. I'm going to ordered a new sub-harness since most wires seem to be compromised. The wire leading from the magnetic starter switch to the sub harness has bubbling in the wire.

Two questions about that....first is there another common name for that part? I've looked for it a couple times with no luck. The other question is...how do I check to see if that is still working? What are the chances that its still working? (Well it turned out to be 3 questions)

Dan
Dan