Author Topic: Cafe 836 - first build... first bike... (Read 27380 times)

mrosso · « **Reply #50 on:** June 14, 2009, 10:31:58 PM »

More Memorial Day Weekend 2009 - tranny build

Countershaft build - most of the gears on the countershaft are new. Actually, the countershaft is NOS from eBay too. I tried to replace as many of the gears that had "dogs" or "ears" as I could. It took a couple of years of eBay surfing, but I'm pretty pleased with the mix of NOS tranny parts.

The left and right shift arms are NOS from ebay, the center shift arm is used.

New NOS main bearing shells

mrosso · « **Reply #51 on:** June 14, 2009, 10:39:23 PM »

APE lightened and balanced crankshaft with ~~Carillo~~ Crower rods (thanks to this forum). Well, whatever APE sells and were a special deal here on the forum.

Heavy Duty studs - top-end from Cyclexchange.net, bottom-end from Dynoman. Heavy duty primary chain purchased from nippon (again thanks to this forum)!

A nice crank, but a little too much Threebond 1104

New Honda oil seal

A good look at APE crank and rods, Nippon HD primary chain, Tsubuki HD cam chain, and Cyclex & Dynoman HD studs. F-ing gorgeous!

ev0lve · « **Reply #52 on:** June 14, 2009, 11:04:05 PM »

Uff-da.
Drool.

mrosso · « **Reply #53 on:** June 16, 2009, 07:25:36 AM »

Rebuilt oil pump. New seals in the rotor caps and a new gasket.

When I tightened down the three screws on the rotor housing, the rotor didn't turn freely. I backed the screws out a bit and it turns fine. However, I'm worried that the screws are too loose and may work themselves out. I put low-strength loctite on the screws. Is that enough?

Should I pull the pump and re-tighten the screws with medium or high-strength loctitie?

MCRider · « **Reply #54 on:** June 16, 2009, 07:38:31 AM »

Quote from: mrosso on June 16, 2009, 07:25:36 AM

Rebuilt oil pump. New seals in the rotor caps and a new gasket.

When I tightened down the three screws on the rotor housing, the rotor didn't turn freely. I backed the screws out a bit and it turns fine. However, I'm worried that the screws are too loose and may work themselves out. I put low-strength loctite on the screws. Is that enough?

Should I pull the pump and re-tighten the screws with medium or high-strength loctitie?

I'm certainly no expert, just an observer. But I've had 4 oil pumps apart in recent months, all turned freely before disassembly. I assume that's how they must be upon reasembly. The screws required an impact to get them out, so they must be tight going back together. I wouldn't use locktite on them personally.

i suspect the O Ring(s) in the cap(s) is rubbing the outer rotor. I'd remove it assemble it without the Oring and see if it turns freely with the screws tight.

I don't think they are available from Honda, where did you get yours? The diameter of the cross section may be too thick.

Jealous of your primary chains! Looking good.

mrosso · « **Reply #55 on:** June 16, 2009, 08:27:36 AM »

Good points. I got the o rings from McMaster Carr. I used the dimensions from the parts fiche. I finally broke down and bought an electric impact driver to get those damn screws out (best tool purchase I've ever made! If only I had bought it three years ago!!!!).

MCRider · « **Reply #56 on:** June 16, 2009, 08:41:55 AM »

Quote from: mrosso on June 16, 2009, 08:27:36 AM

Good points. I got the o rings from McMaster Carr. I used the dimensions from the parts fiche. I finally broke down and bought an electric impact driver to get those damn screws out (best tool purchase I've ever made! If only I had bought it three years ago!!!!).

I piggybacked on an order by jumpjg to McMaster as well. jumpjg indicated they fit his pump OK, but i don't know for sure if he buttoned it up or just laid them in the groove. They are the Viton variety, but not being the actual person making the order i don't know if there were other styles besides the Viton which may introduce a variable. jumpjg indicated they were 46 X 2, does that sound right?

I haven't tried mine yet as i was able to score a virtually new pump on eBay and I won't disturb a thing on it. I cracked it open to confirm it was barely used and buttoned it back up. I set the other pumps aside as i don't need to mess with them now.

I'll try the McMaster Orings in a used pump and see if it binds in the cover, but it may be tonight or a few days.

Still, i have to vote for the free wheeling of the pump, and something is wrong with yours as it stands. I may be wrong.

There has been a dearth of participation on oil pump threads from the engine builders on the forum. This leads me to think using a used oil pump is not the issue we (I) have made it out to be.

Or else they have secrets they are not sharing.

MCRider · « **Reply #57 on:** June 16, 2009, 09:12:26 AM »

I had to go out and check... and I am off-base. There is no way that Oring can bind the rotors. So...

Are the dots on the rotors facing the same way? Did you have the rotors out I should ask at first. The dots are supposed to be on the same side, though from one pump to the next I found some where the dots face the inside and some outside. I don't think it matters as long as they are facing the same way. If you didn't take note how they came out, I guess you have some options.

Boy other than that I don't know.

I checked my almost new pump and the gear turns firmly, it won't spin, but it does turn freely. And the screws are very tight.

mrosso · « **Reply #58 on:** June 16, 2009, 07:45:44 PM »

When I assembled the pump housing, I made sure the "dots" on each rotor were facing the same way. The dots on both sides faced outward (I'm not sure if that's right or not). I think I'll pull it while the engine is out of the frame, just to be on the safe side.

MCRider · « **Reply #59 on:** June 17, 2009, 05:11:40 AM »

Quote from: mrosso on June 16, 2009, 07:45:44 PM

When I assembled the pump housing, I made sure the "dots" on each rotor were facing the same way. The dots on both sides faced outward (I'm not sure if that's right or not). I think I'll pull it while the engine is out of the frame, just to be on the safe side.

Of the 4 pumps I've had apart, 2 had the dots facing inwards, 2 outwards which surprised me. I don't know why that would be, other than it may not be an issue with the factory as long as they are facing the same. If they were brand new rotors, I don't think it makes a difference and only after some wear sets in, then you'd want to keep the rotors dots paired.

I was thinking of turning them around to reverse the leading edge of the rotors. My 3 used ones had quite a bit of pitting on the leading edges. But the measurement was still in the first 30% of allowable wear.

Anyway back to your problem...if you don't really know if your rotor dots were in or out you could reverse them and see if it turns more freely.

mrosso · « **Reply #60 on:** June 17, 2009, 09:44:54 PM »

More bottom-end pics.

My personal favorite...

It was a busy Memorial Day Wekend..

I hope nippon's reinforced primary chain does the trick.

mrosso · « **Reply #61 on:** June 18, 2009, 05:43:49 PM »

Buttoning up the bottom-end. Let's hope I didn't frak anything up!

mystic_1 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 18, 2009, 06:36:31 PM »

Looking great. I'm sure that MCRider is jealous of your bottom end studs. Personally I cant stop staring at your crank, dude. (does that sound wrong?).

What's the finish on the motor? Looks very nice.

mystic_1

mrosso · « **Reply #63 on:** June 18, 2009, 11:44:45 PM »

Thanks. The finish is VHT silver rattle can paint. The case halves were bead blasted first. It looks better in the pics than in person. There are some rough spots here and there.

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #64 on:** June 19, 2009, 09:47:21 AM »

It looks great, especially for a rattle can job. Nice!

mrosso · « **Reply #65 on:** June 19, 2009, 11:33:42 AM »

Thanks, guys!

MikesChevelle · « **Reply #66 on:** June 19, 2009, 11:08:15 PM »

man i wish i had the means to attack my 750 like this................................someday.

mrosso · « **Reply #67 on:** June 20, 2009, 10:22:11 AM »

Quote from: MikesChevelle on June 19, 2009, 11:08:15 PM

man i wish i had the means to attack my 750 like this................................someday.

Thanks. It's not so expensive if you stretch the project over three years without a running bike. I would never have been able to pour the irresponsible amount of cash into this thing if I was doing this over a period of few months.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #68 on:** June 20, 2009, 11:53:25 AM »

What sort of assembly lube are you using?

mystic_1

mrosso · « **Reply #69 on:** June 21, 2009, 08:38:09 AM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on June 20, 2009, 11:53:25 AM

What sort of assembly lube are you using?

mystic_1

Redline Assembly Lube, on the recommendation from this site.

Beans · « **Reply #70 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:56:17 AM »

Quote from: mrosso on June 21, 2009, 08:38:09 AM

Quote from: mystic_1 on June 20, 2009, 11:53:25 AM
What sort of assembly lube are you using?

mystic_1

Redline Assembly Lube, on the recommendation from this site.

Redline is some awesome stuff I use it on all my motors.

mrosso · « **Reply #71 on:** June 22, 2009, 12:11:33 PM »

Time-warp a few weeks into the past: a few earlier pics I forgot to post.

Torquing top-end studs.

A peak at the head work done by Ken at Cyclex. New valves too.

Time-sert thread repair used on a number of the cam-tower bolt holes. I did this after reading a few posts and paragraphs on ways to keep the cam towers from coming apart. I'm not sure if I did more help than hurt, though. It seems like there may be less or about the same amount of thread surface to bite on with the Time Serts in there than just leaving it stock. I never seem to be able to get the lesson, "if it ain't broke..." through my head. I hope they'll bite hard.

mrosso · « **Reply #72 on:** June 24, 2009, 11:14:48 PM »

Building up the shifter mechanism....

Yes, I did replace all of those f-ing philip's head screws with head head type countersunk screws. It was a #$%* getting the countershaft bearing holder out of the original crankcase (I actually ended up Dremeling it into two pieces to get the thing out. Replaced it with one purchased on eBay.

Replaced the shift mechanism parts with as many NOS parts as I could get my hands on.

mrosso · « **Reply #73 on:** July 21, 2009, 09:10:43 PM »

July 2009 Update
Location: Fresno, California
Temperature: 112F

Here are some pics of my work assembling the top-end. I'm in-process of torquing down the head studs...

-- rebuilt oil pump with new screen

--- F****-up #3 ---
Stripped threads on oil pan plug

mrosso · « **Reply #74 on:** July 21, 2009, 09:17:33 PM »

Wiseco 836 piston kit

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Author Topic: Cafe 836 - first build... first bike... (Read 27380 times)