Author Topic: Carb question for the pros  (Read 3677 times)

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Offline tech10

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Carb question for the pros
« on: June 09, 2009, 06:33:43 PM »
I recently got my 76 cb750 to run after 26 years of sitting. The beast is running nice but its on the rich side. The plugs are black and the exhaust fumes are strong. This is without filter on. I put my pod filters on and when i turn the choke off, the engine dies. Its sounds like its bogging down due to no gas.

What should i do?? ???

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2009, 07:16:13 PM »
New plugs?  What do they look like?
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
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Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
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Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 07:20:29 PM »
smells rich.. bogging due to no gas with pods on and choke off...

you got a camera? you could do a video on youtube. that would help alot

turn your idle up a bit and try that again.

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everything I say is pure speculation and
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Offline Bodi

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2009, 04:30:57 AM »
Sitting 26 years and now running like the carbs are gummed up... hmmm.
Probably the carbs are gummed up.
You may also have ignition arcover troubles, the plug cables deteriorate with age and tend to spark through the insulation to metal things close by. Once it runs, starting it in a very dark garage and looking up under the front of the engine where the coils are lets you see the errant sparks if there are any. Don't do this carelessly and die from exhaust poisoning, by the way.
The carbs tend to get dirty even when drained and stored inside. Humidity alone causes a bit of corrosion over a couple of decades. You have to remove the carb rack to do this, but shouldn't need to disturb the sync adjustments unless the emulsion tubes are really stuck. You have to pull the slides out if heavy persuasion is needed to get the emulsion tubes out but they will need to be cleaned and checked: trying to apply the force through a throat will pretty much always cause damage to the tube, body, slide, or needle. It can be done with a bit of wood dowel using the slide as a "hammer" to tap the tube down but you have to be very careful.
Otherwise it's just remove the jets, airscrews, and float valve and clean everything including the tiny cross holes in the pilot jet and the main jet emulsion tube. Blow carb cleaner and compressed air through all the body passages until they seem open and all four carbs blow out about the same from the same places. Avoid reaming out any holes with wire or pipe cleaners (the twisted wire core will damage the soft aluminum and brass). Honda sells gasket kits, these are (in my opinion) better quality than the aftermarket "rebuild kit" kit gaskets. Avoid using aftermarket kit jets and needles as a rule. Float valves are available from Honda but the aftermarket ones are pretty good.
If fuel was left in the carbs 26 years ago you'll find a crust of gunk in the float bowls. If it was parked with fuel in the tank and the petcock on, you will find a horror show in the float bowls.


Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2009, 05:22:03 AM »
Thanks Bodi, but i have already cleaned the carbs by doing all u said. Sorry i failed to mention that at the beginning. But there is always the case of i didn't clean good enough.

Im going to work on getting a video of whats going on. Will probably be Thursday.

Thanks guys.

Offline j-conn

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 05:24:27 AM »
Ive also had issue with pods not being maintained properly...
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Offline wrenchmuch

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 06:01:13 AM »
Re-check your pilot jets (idle jets) and associated passages . It sounds like they could still be plugged .
Mike
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Offline RSVbruno

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 06:50:47 AM »
Forgive me for sounding stupid...but if he is rich, and he adds the filters (making it "harder to breathe" so to speak) wouldn't he be flooding said engine instead of not getting enough fuel? 
There's a reason fuel injection is around...but I would sure miss swearing for hours on end if I didn't own a few bikes with carbs.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 06:54:09 AM »
Remove carbs and clean all passages- blow them out with compressed air.
Check to make sure you are getting gas from the tank to the carbs.
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Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 08:25:54 AM »
Forgive me for sounding stupid...but if he is rich, and he adds the filters (making it "harder to breathe" so to speak) wouldn't he be flooding said engine instead of not getting enough fuel? 

thats why I said "video", cause if we hear it we can give better advice
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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Offline Johnny5

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 10:23:11 AM »
Is the bike properly jetted for the pods? If not, no matter what you clean, you'll have some issues.

If jetted correctly, then Im guessing plugged pilot jets too.
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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 07:45:19 PM »
Alrighty guys, here is what i did today...

I cleaned out the air screw jets (if thats what they are called) and then bench sync the carbs with a 1/8 drill bit (i read that somewhere). I put the pods on and it worked. After taking the choke off the beast keep running with some minor adjustments of the idle screw. Now i have a problem of when i hit the throttle hard it bogs down. Wanting to quit... ???

Now what do i need to do. How do i know if i need bigger jets??? it came stock with 105. I pulled #1 and #4 plugs and cleaned them. Started back up let it run a few with high throttle and pulled again and still gross black. Not as bad through..  Do i need to ride the beast before i have a true plug reading?

Thought i had a video but can't get it to work right. Camcorder saved it as a DVD file and its not working right on YouTube. First time trying to do this.

Offline Johnny5

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2009, 08:02:16 PM »
If running pods, you'll certainly have to up the mains and move the needles. Use the search function for pods and jetting, take a bunch of aspirin and call us in the morning. ;)
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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2009, 08:23:07 PM »
If running pods, you'll certainly have to up the mains and move the needles. Use the search function for pods and jetting, take a bunch of aspirin and call us in the morning. ;)

Yeah figured as much, im a rookie at this. Seems like if the jets needed to be bigger, the thing wouldn't be running rich. Which i guess it is. Still smell minor gassy exhaust and plugs are black.

Got the video to work.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2009, 08:24:40 PM »
Here is the URL if that funky set up didnt work.


Offline Johnny5

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2009, 08:25:33 PM »
Could be fouled plugs making you think it's rich. Or plug slow jets.
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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2009, 08:28:07 PM »
Well hell... Video didn't show the hole thing.  What the heck!! >:(

Sorry for the screwed up Vid.

Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2009, 09:57:20 PM »
you're running on 3 cylinders? unless you have dual exhaust, and the camera is picking up one better than the other...

I use a propane torch to see which one isn't getting fuel, by turning it on and sticking the nozzle into the carb.  if it stumbles or dies, tha carb has fuel flowing thru it, if it speeds up or smoothes out, you got a clogged jet.
 unless you're fouling plugs. then you gots another problem.
hmm...
should sound a bit more like this.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2009, 10:09:30 PM »
Has all this bad running taken place in your garage ?
Have you actually ridden this bike a few miles on the road ?
Garage 'tuning' without road riding does not work, IMO.
Make 1 change: road test
Make 1 more : road test
So on..................IMO.
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2009, 06:39:40 AM »
If running pods, you'll certainly have to up the mains and move the needles. Use the search function for pods and jetting, take a bunch of aspirin and call us in the morning. ;)

Yeah figured as much, I'm a rookie at this. Seems like if the jets needed to be bigger, the thing wouldn't be running rich. Which i guess it is. Still smell minor gassy exhaust and plugs are black.

have you messed with your plug wires, or points?
If not, then don't, but one of the cylinders doesn't seem to be firing. like a fouled plug.
 have you wire brushed the plugs clean before putting them back in? I spray a little shot of starting fluid down in the cylinders and on the plugs to help fire it up.

and it does need to be ridden up and down the road a piece. could get that misfire to clear up.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 06:51:02 AM by Industrial Cafe »
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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Offline alltherightpills

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2009, 06:53:14 AM »
Do i need to ride the beast before i have a true plug reading?


I would.  Or rather, I would ride the beast in order to get a true plug reading.  You won't really be able to get accurate readings in your garage.  Type "plug chop" into the search bar and a bunch of stuff will come up.  Plug chops are the most accurate way of seeing what is happening inside the engine at any given time.  Oh, and get new plugs before you start all of this.  It'll make your life a hell of a lot easier.
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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2009, 06:54:01 PM »
Alright, this after i "tinkered" with the bike again. I took out all the plugs and cleaned them. A little sooty but nothing fouled. The plugs are new by the way. I did start the bike without filters on to see what all happened. Runs good with choke on. Meaning more fuel pushed in and less air. So i put the pods back on and screwed the air screw on each a slight turn while running. Was running a tad better. The motor still gasping for gas or getting over loaded with air. My dad (old school muscle car builder) scratched his head and said it didn't sound like it was a lack of gas. He picked up the can of starter spray and sprayed around the carb manifolds. To find.....air pulling in from around them. Sooo its sucking air from around them (duh). I guess need new or good used ones because what i have are hard and not holding a seal. The cuz stopped by and recommended tearing the carbs down completely and dip them and get a good clean. I did clean them but did not completely do a tear down. Did notice the #1 header not getting as hot as other three.

Soo, i'm going to tear the whole carb rack down, get larger jets and get new manifolds. I read on the Carb FAQ page when running PODS to up the main jets by 5 or 10. So it came stock with 105 jets. So should i up to 110, 115 or 120?

On the positive side, i did get my front brakes to work tonight. LOL

I would like to say thanks to everyone offering advice on my post. I gotta learn somehow just like everyone else did. 

Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2009, 06:58:43 PM »
mine were hard too. I soaked em in HOT water and replaced them hot and soft, tightened the clamps real tight too.

use the flat side of a ruler to align them all flat before putting the rack back on.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2009, 06:04:28 PM »
hey guys, i talked to a local guy today that works on 750's and asked if he had 120 jets in stock that i could buy from him. I told him i was running POD filters and first he said i needed to go size down (i have 105 stock size, i told him that) and then he said he recommends a Stage 1 kit. I thought a Stage 1 kits is bigger jets?? Then he said with PODS its more to it than jets. Like change the needles and such. On the Carb FAQ its says just move the needle washer up and change jets +5 or +10 and screw the air screw in some. 

Any suggestions?? I found 120 jets on ebay.. I know that would be +15 but i read people going to 120.

Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2009, 06:10:20 PM »
jets are trial and error, www.z1enterprises.com has jets super cheap, i think 1.05 each

every bike is setup different, (exhaust intake) so i would say to get  115 120 125 and try to find the set that's sweetest.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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Offline Industrial Cafe

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everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2009, 06:18:54 PM »
thanks bud, im running just the straight headers.  Could explain alot!

Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2009, 06:45:53 PM »
I'm runnin pods and a straight yoshi, i have 115's and they're a little lean after 6000rpm

   the 125's that were in when I got the carbs were far too rich.
thinkin about getting a set of 118's and 120's to try out myself.

everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros (new Update)
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2009, 07:26:04 PM »
alright, i put my 115 i ordered in first and its running great. The motor is not falling on its nose when i pull the throttle quickly. I went to put my chain on to give it test ride (first time i might say) and the B#$%*H is to short. I did a search and the specs said a 530-100 chain. I guess i needs a 120.. >:(

What size chain are you guys running?

I also did a complete carb cleaning this weekend. Took them completely apart and soaked.

Offline alltherightpills

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2009, 07:43:10 PM »
Did you slide the rear wheel as far forward as it would go?
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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2009, 07:51:00 PM »
Did you slide the rear wheel as far forward as it would go?

I did, but still to short. Also that made me run into my fender and mounting bracket. Can't do that.

Offline alltherightpills

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2009, 08:00:00 PM »
Hmmm.  I don't know what to tell you then.  When I put my new chain on, I thought it was too short, and then I figured out that I could slide the wheel forward and it gave me enough room to get the link in.  I was only short an inch and a half or so though.  Sounds like you are a lot shorter than that.
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Offline medic09

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2009, 09:52:48 PM »
thanks bud, im running just the straight headers.  Could explain alot!

Remember that the jetting should be done for how you will eventually ride the bike on the road complete.  Pods or filter, open headers or baffled exhaust.  Whenever you change something on the intake side or the exhaust side, it can/will effect how the motor performs with the jets that are installed.

Sorry if I've stated the obvious.
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Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2009, 09:07:03 PM »
one of your sprockets might be bigger, try a 108 link and take out what you don't need.
by grinding the pin off with a dremel.

108 is about 4 inches longer then the 100 when you fold it in half.
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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Offline tech10

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2009, 11:28:47 AM »
UPDATE UPDATE ;D ;D

Got a longer chain and took out the links to what i needed.

I rode the beast for the first time yesterday. Oh what a joy! I've been working on this project since November. The motor ran outstanding. No trouble with the carbs, but i am going to pull the plugs and see what they show. Of course with all things i had one problem. My rear fender mount was rubbing the back tire so my dad and I had to pull the rear fender off and bend the bracket forward. With doing this some of the weld had to be broken and my bondo to smooth things out cracked. Sooooooo i will have to redo the back part of the frame. I'm glad my cuz is a body shop guy. I'll let him tackle the feathering in of new paint.

But hey, the "beast" ran. Now i gotta get a tag, hook up brake light, blinkers and headlight. All is good.

Offline Industrial Cafe

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Re: Carb question for the pros
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2009, 01:19:45 PM »
alriiight!!!
everything I say is pure speculation and
I have no idea what I'm talking about  ._.


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