Author Topic: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?  (Read 45540 times)

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Offline bistromath

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2009, 11:30:07 AM »
Depends what you're doing with it. If you're track racing, you can ABSOLUTELY get your rotors up to insane temperatures. In fact, when racing canyons with my friends on my 550F, I noticed that I wasn't throttle-limited in keeping up with the newer bikes: I was brake-limited. When my rotor heated up, my front would fade, and I'd have to hang back while it cooled. Doesn't help that the 550 weighs quite a bit more than the newer bikes.

If you're just riding on the street, conservatively, without multiple hard stops in short amounts of time, you'll probably never get your brakes hot enough to find the limitations in this lube that TT has found. If you ride aggressively, you're putting your life in the hands of a tube of grease. Brakes are probably the last component on your bike you want to cheap out on.
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Offline bistromath

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2009, 11:30:51 AM »
Also, TT, just want to say "thanks" for the experience and objectivity you brought to this thread. Not too many people here who have done oven tests on their brake assembly lube. =)
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Offline tygrant

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2009, 11:51:48 AM »
Depends what you're doing with it. If you're track racing, you can ABSOLUTELY get your rotors up to insane temperatures. In fact, when racing canyons with my friends on my 550F, I noticed that I wasn't throttle-limited in keeping up with the newer bikes: I was brake-limited. When my rotor heated up, my front would fade, and I'd have to hang back while it cooled. Doesn't help that the 550 weighs quite a bit more than the newer bikes.

If you're just riding on the street, conservatively, without multiple hard stops in short amounts of time, you'll probably never get your brakes hot enough to find the limitations in this lube that TT has found. If you ride aggressively, you're putting your life in the hands of a tube of grease. Brakes are probably the last component on your bike you want to cheap out on.

Yes I agree 100%. but run a car on that same canyon road or a car and see where your at. i am actualy going to do the same test this weekend tt did on his on the stuff i used just cuz im curious. gota wait till sunday when no ones home cant imagine that it will smell good if its fizzles.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2009, 12:33:18 PM »
When I rebuild brakes, I test them beyond normal use.  I use two hands on the lever for high hydraulic pressure, I heat them up, and do panic braking, to make sure nothing is going to let go should a real emergency occur and I need them the most.

I had trouble finding the pure silicone grease specified in the Honda shop manual.
The auto parts counterman assured me Sil-Glyde would work for my application.  The auto parts counterman is not an engineer, has knowledge about flipping pages in a book and receiving money from customers.  No science or engineering degree (or knowledge) is required for that position.  Amicable and convincing communication skills ARE of benefit, but I digress.) Nonetheless, Sil-Glyde was all I could find.

Since it was easy to find, I used it, and then did my stress testing of the front brake.  Started off great, and then got worse than before I rebuilt them.
Close inspection revealed the grease had migrated to the friction pads.  Well, that 'splains" the brake function loss!

I found some of the pure silicone grease specified in the Honda shop manual for this bike, replaced the pad swith new Honda, cleaned the rotor, repeated my stress testing and the grease did not migrate to the friction pads.  Brakes worked better than they ever had, which I attribute mainly to the SS brake lines I installed during this same overhaul cycle. No, it isn't Honda pure, but I prefer function over form.

I then did the oven test of the two materials side by side in my oven to discover that indeed the real silicone grease by far outperforms the Sil-Glyde by a very wide margin.  I actually posted my test procedure and results to the SOHC4 mail list when I did this many years ago.

I can't believe this "discussion" has turned into a religious argument rather than a scientific one.  I really don't care if 12 people vs 4 agree to change the speed of light.  The speed of light simply isn't going to change.  I don't care if 5 people have jumped off a roof and survived with only minor mental disabilities, I ain't gonna do it.

If anyone actually cares about science, I'll offer this.
I know of no cars that use stainless steel brake rotors.  Most use carbon steel which has a far higher heat dissipation ratio.  They also rust far faster, which is acceptable if they are hidden by the wheel.  The SOHC4 rotors don't rust very quickly at all, and are prominently exposed to demonstrate this fact.

Heat from the SOHC4 rotor, transfers right through the pad to the steel backing bonded to the pad material.  There is a nylon ring, and minimal steel to piston contact to keep most of the heat from transferring to the piston, (which is hollow, providing an insulative air space), all designed to minimize heat being transferred to the brake fluid.
The silicone material under discussion is applied to the pad backing steel and the caliper bore where the pad backing slides, to help keep water and dust from accumulating behind the pad backing steel.  It is a high heat area that Honda engineers recognized, and found a grease that would more than withstand temperatures that can be attained at that point.

Comparing this particular brake caliper design and it's requirements to the thousands and thousands of other designs similarly called "disc brakes" is rather like saying all pancakes are the same no matter what materials they were made with.  I have found "pancakes" in pastures that I have no desire eating.  There are some here who seemingly would, as after all, its all in the syrup poured over it, for them.  I suggest the term for comparing the SOHC4 disc brake to all other "disc brakes" may be aptly termed junk science.  There are far too many details in the actual design that differ among examples.

MY experience will Sil-Glyde for this application, demonstrated FAILURE for the brake system.  I'm just glad I found out about it in non-emergency conditions, and not during.   You all get to decided for yourselves which is best for you.  I've tried my best to warn you.  Maybe you CAN jump off buildings and eat any pancakes with no ill effects.  Perhaps you've never encountered kyrptonite, either.  ;)

The committee will now decide by caveate what actually works.  We all know how well design by committee functions in the real would.  The majority may rule, but, the majority is most definitely NOT always right.

I'm done.

Best of luck to you all.





Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline tygrant

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2009, 01:13:42 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-24125-Ceramic-Extreme-Lubricant/dp/B0018PSASU

hey tt, this is the stuff im talking about, this is larger quantity but I got the little ketchup packet size,

 temperature range -65F to +2800F

im not saying your wrong so dont think that, I am just saying this worked for me and I am going to test this to see if it runs.. I doubt it will though
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2009, 01:45:12 PM »
Now dont you think maybe supplying a link to your product may have been something to do in your first post? Might have clarified things a bit there don't you think? You knew what you had, the rest of us only knew you got ketchup sized packets of brake grease.
it is like asking for help and all you say is "my engine sounds funny".

Offline Beans

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2009, 01:46:55 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-24125-Ceramic-Extreme-Lubricant/dp/B0018PSASU

hey tt, this is the stuff im talking about, this is larger quantity but I got the little ketchup packet size,

 temperature range -65F to +2800F

im not saying your wrong so dont think that, I am just saying this worked for me and I am going to test this to see if it runs.. I doubt it will though


Thats the stuff we use at work and we have never had a problem with it. I even got a bottle of it at home I use on all my parts even my dirtbikes and cars.
Keep it shinny side up.

Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2009, 01:50:12 PM »
As for the "scientific" tests, well if a simple oven test is scientific, then we should be able to relax the requirements for oil tests. Just saying you cant demand super tight test restrictions for one thing and not another. it is kinda like making atheists prove there is not god while accepting there is one based on just the bible. ;)

speedknot

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2009, 02:18:47 PM »
I like to use this stuff for my cars.  I will probably use it for my CB restoration project as well.

http://www.bendixbrakes.com/products/otherPremium.php

Offline prosolar

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2009, 02:46:56 PM »
I don't think Syl-Glide is good for assembling calipers or for the back of pads. TT is right! Use just brake fluid in the caliper and stick with what Honda says is right for the back of the pads to reduce noise and condensation. Maybe it won't make a difference 90% of the time to 90% of riders but that 10% can be life or death.
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upperlake04

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2009, 03:45:11 PM »
  ..I have found "pancakes" in pastures that I have no desire eating.  There are some here who seemingly would, as after all, its all in the syrup poured over it..

 ;D ;D ;D And who said engineers have no sense of humour?

Offline tygrant

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2009, 05:11:40 PM »
Now dont you think maybe supplying a link to your product may have been something to do in your first post? Might have clarified things a bit there don't you think? You knew what you had, the rest of us only knew you got ketchup sized packets of brake grease.
it is like asking for help and all you say is "my engine sounds funny".

aright aright i only gave him that description because they are on the counter and i honestly didnt know the name of the product. whatever the case. the packets are cheap and i was giving him an alternative thats a great product much cheaper that the silicone grease... agreed?
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Offline moham

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2009, 08:45:08 PM »
my truck weighs 4400 lbs, spread out over 4 thas 1100 lbs per wheel and when you break 80% is front.. my bike weighs 400 lbs, with a drilled rotor. I very much disagree that bike brakes get hotter than a cars. im not geting into this argument I will use brake grease for brakes.

Tygrant, I want to offer a little digression: go click on lordmoonpie's website link and follow the links to his racing pictures. Now, somewhere in that section are some pics of "racing
Injuries". Find the one of the guy that had his bike flip onto him and land with the bike's super heated brake rotor into his back. Observe the result. I know it's racing, and I know it's not everyday usage but as I've followed this thread I just keep picturing that guy's freakin burned back...I would post the link for you but I'm on an iPhone...

As for others arguing about "scientific" and "testing", I think TTs point is that he created some conditions under control to simulate a working environment in which he could observe behavior. Those that are using the sylglide on their bikes are doing one better and using Actual Working Conditions. TT observed a failure of the product under Simulated Working Conditions. I, for one, would not want to observe a failure under Actual Working Conditions. A matter of preference, I suppose...
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2009, 09:35:03 PM »
Not busting balls ty! ;) It is half my fault for assuming before asking. :)

MrHellpop

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2009, 09:54:50 PM »
Hey guys,
There's a lot of great information in this thread now!
I didn't intend to start any real serious arguments, I was just wondering if anyone had used it. A few people have posted here that they use it on their bikes, and that is what I wanted to know. I personally ride at a very mellow pace (avg 45mph - 60 max) and wouldn't consider my brake use at anything close to racing style use. As for the 'oven test' not being a scientific test reproducing actual braking conditions, I would have to agree with whomever brought that up.
That said, I am all about safety first (hence my chilled out riding style). I use both front and rear brakes when stopping, EVERY TIME. It's the way I learned how to ride.
I did go ahead and use the sil-glyde when reassembling my brakes (this time) and plan on riding around the neighborhood street braking hard multiple times before taking it out on the road. If there is even a hint of braking power loss or fluid leakage I will tear the brakes down and reassemble them with the recommended Dow Corning Hi-Vacuum grease immediately. I found a link online that is much more reasonable for the real stuff:

http://www.ellsworth.com/display/productdetail.html?productid=403
 

At $16.35, even a broke@$$ like myself can afford it! (Part of the problem with this stuff is that I couldn't find it locally in North Texas!)
Thanks for all the good info guys, I love to get as many perspectives as I can!
Mrhellpop

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2009, 10:29:22 PM »
Just remember guys, no matter which product you use, there is much more to a brake job than just the lubricant. Do it right, break 'em in, and keep an eye on them always. We only have this one life to live. Make it last. It's always too short.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline moham

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2009, 10:33:30 PM »
Mrhellpop (I like the name, by the way, though I don't know what it means), I lived in Denton and Dallas for a few years. Never thought I'd say this (when I first got there) but I kinda miss Texas...don't know what it is but Texas has some kind of allure, even for those that don't think they're "Texan". Something about shooting and roasting a wild boar in the hill country that kind of agreed with me...
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Offline tygrant

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2009, 04:13:27 AM »
i took a dab of that stuff put it on a plate of steek and hit it with a map gas torch, waited for it to melt, no dice, it did seem to getfluid like and shiny but i dont know the tem of map gass off hand. anyway this chits pretty damn good IMO... and its 75 cents or a buck for a small packet that can you 2 calipers...
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Offline mark

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2009, 10:51:31 AM »
it was like 50¢ for a jar that will probably still be half-full for my great-great-great-grandkids calipers in a couple hundred years.



gotta love them yard sales.

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MrHellpop

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2009, 11:49:26 AM »
it was like 50¢ for a jar that will probably still be half-full for my great-great-great-grandkids calipers in a couple hundred years.



gotta love them yard sales.



Hows about putting some of that junk into a film canister and mailing it out to me?!?!
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Quote
Quote from: HavocTurbo on March 19, 2009, 12:31:01 pm
F you mark...... F you.
;D

Offline B.O.X.N.I.F.E.

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2009, 12:28:56 PM »
it was like 50¢ for a jar that will probably still be half-full for my great-great-great-grandkids calipers in a couple hundred years.



gotta love them yard sales.



Hows about putting some of that junk into a film canister and mailing it out to me?!?!
ps-
Quote
Quote from: HavocTurbo on March 19, 2009, 12:31:01 pm
F you mark...... F you.
;D

Seriously, find a small container and sell them for a couple bucks each. I'll buy one.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2009, 10:58:48 AM »
As for others arguing about "scientific" and "testing", I think TTs point is that he created some conditions under control to simulate a working environment in which he could observe behavior. Those that are using the sylglide on their bikes are doing one better and using Actual Working Conditions. TT observed a failure of the product under Simulated Working Conditions. I, for one, would not want to observe a failure under Actual Working Conditions. A matter of preference, I suppose...

Slight correction.  Actually, the oven test was not really too simulate brake conditions.  It was to see if the product met package label specifications.   It did not meet its published temperature spec.  And, it did not maintain its physical gel state over those temperatures.  So, I found two outright lies from the manufacturer, which in my mind, casts serious doubt about any other unproven claims made on the packaging label.

While I don't know the exact test conditions/limits it must meet to work properly in the caliper, Sil-Glyde was clearly a far lesser performer over a wide temperature range.  This proved it to be a poor substitute for the Silicone grease Honda specified for this application.

Oh, did I mention it f**ked up a perfectly good set of pads before I did temperature isolated tests?  Because, it does contain silicone, and the pads are porous, pad friction material once contaminated can NEVER be cleaned as new, as nothing dissolves silicone.  It can be flushed and/or mechanically displaced eventually, from accessible surfaces.  But, it is impossible to remove from the depths of friction material completely.  Once the pad surface is worn down, more silicone is available to lube the rotor.  The only alternative is to renew.  So, the product not only doesn't function as well, it also makes parts associated with it fail as well.  So, add replacement pad cost to the price of Sil-Glyde, and is it really cheaper than using the correct product/material in the first place?

Can I be done now, please?

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline moham

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2009, 12:00:20 PM »
As for others arguing about "scientific" and "testing", I think TTs point is that he created some conditions under control to simulate a working environment in which he could observe behavior. Those that are using the sylglide on their bikes are doing one better and using Actual Working Conditions. TT observed a failure of the product under Simulated Working Conditions. I, for one, would not want to observe a failure under Actual Working Conditions. A matter of preference, I suppose...

Slight correction.  Actually, the oven test was not really too simulate brake conditions.  It was to see if the product met package label specifications.   It did not meet its published temperature spec.  And, it did not maintain its physical gel state over those temperatures.  So, I found two outright lies from the manufacturer, which in my mind, casts serious doubt about any other unproven claims made on the packaging label.

While I don't know the exact test conditions/limits it must meet to work properly in the caliper, Sil-Glyde was clearly a far lesser performer over a wide temperature range.  This proved it to be a poor substitute for the Silicone grease Honda specified for this application.


Ostensibly, the temp claims relate directly to the environment in which the product will be applied (ie "brakes"), but I should not have presumed to speak for you.

Can I be done now, please?


Well, that's entirely up to you...
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2009, 12:04:08 PM »
 I use Crisco on fork seals. ;D
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Offline ofreen

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Re: Anyone use Sil-Glyde for front caliper reassebly?
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2009, 12:14:37 PM »
I use Crisco on fork seals. ;D

That's just crazy and foolish.  Why waste money on Crisco when you can get the house brand shortenings for much less?
Greg
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