Topic: Mo the 80 CB650 Custom: "As the Spanner Turns..."

[Hush]

Run it on blood, you can call it the Dragula bike.

[razor02097]

Run it on blood, you can call it the Dragula bike.

Rina doesn't run on blood.... however she does manage to keep biting me every time I touch her... 

[The_Crippler]

Run it on blood, you can call it the Dragula bike.

Great...now I'm gonna have that song stuck in my head the rest of the day.


Hey - tickets go on sale for his show in 2 minutes!  Thanks for th reminder!

[manjisann]

Oy guys, thats the NOS tank 

Ok, well I'll ride her around a bit and see what happens with the chain noise, I think I'm just being paranoid. I may go ahead and pull the acorn nut off slowly and see what happens. I may adjust it manually with it off (depending on how things go) see if that helps and if it doesn't just do it while running with the acorn nut back on. I did notice the camchain noise lowered once I tightened it down last time, so maybe I'm just expecting it to be unrealistically quiet. Mostly I don't want to foul up the engine by not doing something, the noise doesn't bother me THAT much.

Thanks again for the compliments guys, you can all take some pride in this build, this forum and members helped me through some tight spots, provided a kick in the butt when I needed it, and in general edumacated me well enough to be able to attempt it.

I sealed the tank last night, so just got to way the 96 hours for it to cure....... 96 long interminable hours

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

I was the same way.  The only way I got over the way the bike sounds was to wear earplugs while riding for awhile, (helped with the "WHAT???" after riding, too) 
after riding it all summer and having it not explode/implode/etc, I went without earplugs and I'm mostly ok now... but I do go "What was that sound? Do you hear that?" even though the engine's running fine.

[The_Crippler]

I was the same way.  The only way I got over the way the bike sounds was to wear earplugs while riding for awhile, (helped with the "WHAT???" after riding, too) 
after riding it all summer and having it not explode/implode/etc, I went without earplugs and I'm mostly ok now... but I do go "What was that sound? Do you hear that?" even though the engine's running fine.

I am soooo screwed when I start riding mine...

[manjisann]

I was the same way.  The only way I got over the way the bike sounds was to wear earplugs while riding for awhile, (helped with the "WHAT???" after riding, too) 
after riding it all summer and having it not explode/implode/etc, I went without earplugs and I'm mostly ok now... but I do go "What was that sound? Do you hear that?" even though the engine's running fine.


I am soooo screwed when I start riding mine...

Maybe we need to start a support group, Paranoids Annonymous or something. "Hello, I'm Brandon." Everyone says "Hi Brandon" "I'm a Paranoid vehicle owner, like a overprotective new parent, any sound my vehicle makes that is out of the ordinary sends me into an instant panic of OH F*$% WHAT DOES THAT NOISE MEAN AND HOW MUCH IS IT GONNA COST!?!?!"     Eh, I'll just have to start riding and pray to the motorcycle gods that it works. I wonder if Virgin Sacrifices work.... where can I find a virgin bike to sacrifice...... guess I could always try a Harley, they don't get ridden much 

I'll hopefully be riding Tuesday after classes, the tank sealer should be cured by then. From what I can see it seems to have adhered. I'm trying to remain optimistic that she'll run good... at least I'm really hoping so since my truck has suddenly started acting up. Why oh why do I buy old vehicles.... oh yeah, I enjoy () working on them 

Well, off to work, gotta pay the bills somehow.

Brandon

[The_Crippler]

You said it, man.  I tend to freak out when I put new rubber on the Vulcan and the tires on the pavement sound different.

[Hush]

Here's the way to get comfotable with your bike, start by riding it around you block:
Ride it home and turn it off, walk around it a couple of times.
Now standback and look for oil leaks, gas on the ground, feel under the gas tank especially around the gas tap for leaks, touch the carb bowls..are they all "cold" i.e. full of gas.
Wave your hand near the exhausts, these 650's run perfectly happily on 3 cylinders and it is sometimes hard to notice one is not firing.
Lift the seat and sniff.... you are smelling for electrical burning.
Are you happy with the brakes, did the front pull you up quick enough? Does the rear need repositioning now you've ridden it.
Hush rule #1: Never ride further away from home on a bike you don't know than you want to push it back to.
Now ride 2 blocks, go further as you feel more confident, keep in the back of your mind where can you ditch a crippled bike where some other SOHC4 forum member wont see it and think it has been abandoned.

You had a 550 before so you obviously know how to ride a bike, the 650 has a bit more punch than the 550 though esp if you grab a big hunk of throttle.

[manjisann]

Hush rule #1: Never ride further away from home on a bike you don't know than you want to push it back to.

That has got to be some of the sagest advice I've read yet 

My old bike was a 500, but why quibble over 50cc's   

Seriously though, good advice for working in an unfamiliar bike, thanks Hush 

Brandon

[manjisann]

I got home today and checked my tank and decided the sealer was set up enough. I took a wire and poked at the thicker bits and it was all rock solid so felt I was good, I was honestly only shaving about 6 or 7 hours off the cure time and it's been nice and warm lately. Knock on wood I didn't mess myself over.

I went ahead and installed a line tee I had made and an inline filter. The inline filter makes things kind of crowded so at some point I may look into getting the in tank filter, but since moving the petcock as far back as I did, I'm not sure the in tank filter would even work anymore. I replaced the spring that was on the carbs with a stock one off some 500 carbs I had, the spring that was on it was too weak and wasn't closing the carbs like it should. I think these carbs need to be gone though with a fine tooth comb and polished up in places as they seem to hang up a bit. That can wait for later though (I hope).

I put everything together, checked my oil level, adjusted the air in the tires, ordered insurance for the bike (came to only $107 with really good coverages, liability only but hey, it was cheaper than I was expecting so I'm happy about that.) I put my riding gear on, and proceeded to take her on her maiden voyage! I did as Hush suggested, just went around the neighborhood a few times, never really above 25mph, but all in all she functioned pretty good, she only died on me once and she started right back up again. I got back home and checked the battery voltage, I think it was 12.6x volts, so she is charging well hooray!

I checked for fuel leaks and couldn't see any, couldn't see any major oil leaks either, and no burnt electrical smell. The one thing I have notices is a small bit of smoke wafting up from some where in the engine area, but I can't quite figure out where. I'm hoping it's old oil on the engine or pipes just buring off. I gave everything the once over and found I had neglected to tighten down two of the carb-engine boots, oops. Tightened those down and checked all the others.

Went in and cleaned up then went for a ride out to my sisters house to see my new little adopted niece! I rode the bike there and thats when things started going buggy. The last screw in the tachometer that holds the faceplate down vibrated loose and fell out, so the tach became pretty useless. For some reason she decided she no longer wanted to idle at about 1500 rpms and shot up to about 2200, I adjusted the idle screw, but as soon as the rpm's came down she'd just keep dropping past 1k and die. She'd start back up just fine and with some gas stay running, but idle is now wonky. Throttle response is all messed up now as well, for some reason it's not smooth like it should be, it's more lurchy and sporatic, and the rpms aren't smooth either. The speedometer doesn't seem to be functioning properly either as the needle would bounce as much as 5mph, but I'm fairly sure I would feel that kind of change in speed, whether up or down.

When I got to her house (it's about 10 or 15 miles away) I checked the battery again and it read 13.3x volts?? Is it possible to overcharge a battery and if so, what would cause such a thing? The camchain noise also seemed louder, I actually checked to be sure that the tensioner nut hadn't rattled loose (remembered reading about that on Kits build thread.)

At this piont I'm suspecting air leaks and possibly rich mixture. I've got some other suspicions as well. Lets just say the ride home was interesting. All things considered I think it was a fairly successful first run. I had hoped for a flawless run, but knew that bugs were more likely than not. All in all the problems aren't too bad, at least it's not peeing oil everywhere, or catching on fire (knock on wood). I'm trying very hard to be positive about all this and just remember it's all in the adventure. Some of the long time builders on this forum might be able to rip a bike apart like I did and put it back together and have it work perfectly, but I don't have near that experience so I should really just be happy that it's as far as it is.

It's late and I'm tired so I'm calling it a night, just wanted to let everyone know about the ride.

Pics in order:

Tool Bag, fits under the seat ( I think it's an old m14 parts roll, it used to be my dads)
Fuel "Tee" (prevents the fuel hoses from kinking)
Messed up Tach
Bike at my Sisters house
Me and my little niece, she's a lot more photogenic than I am

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

I went to the auto parts store and got a spring thing about three inches long that goes around the line and bends at a 90* angle... let me not kink off the lines.

your irratic idle does sound a lot like an air leak somewhere though.  I wouldn't worry about it being rich just yet.

where were you testing battery voltage?  Right at the battery? Running or not?  my bike charges at around 13v at 2k rpms.  your regulator/rectifier regulates voltage amounts, and shouldn't go higher than 14.5 or so.  def no higher than 15.  let your battery settle a bit and it should come back down to 12.6ish.

I think your shakedown run went as well as you can expect. It's still a work in progress and you're doing just fine.

[Hush]

I agree with Kit, that isn't a bad shake down ride, at least you didn't have to push it home (like I have had to many times in the past) .
I also tend to favour the air leak at the carb boot theory, make sure they are hard back into the carb rack before you tighten them down (I paid $120 for a carb sync only to be told the carb boots were not properly seated and that was more likely my problem).
The oil smoke will more than likely be from around the exhaust clamps at the head which will probably burn its self off, give them all a check anyway (don't strip them ya animal) .
Voltage is within accepted parameters as Kit and I know them, if you get 14.5 that's great if it goes to 15v you have a bar-q happeneing somewhere.
Above all don't panic, this is a 30 year old bike being restarted after a while off the road, it will smell, it will need tweeking and tightening.
Cute baby.............Hush.

[The_Crippler]

Like Kit and Hush said, it sounds like a pretty good shake-down cruise.  My first bike, I pushed it more than I rode it for the first several months.  Also, when I fired my CB up for the first time to take it down the block, you would have thought I set a smoke bomb off on my street.

[manjisann]

You guys are right, I didn't have to push her so I should be very happy about that, which I am.

I installed a battery tender link (sorry, not sure what else to call it) so I can just plug it in without having to lift the seat. It screws in right at the battery. I was measuring voltage there and I'm pretty sure it's accurate since I did measure voltage at the battery and then at the end of the link once and it was exactly the same. Aside from a 7.5 amp fuse, it's a straight wire. Anyhow, I'll measure the voltage on the battery again when I get home from school.

Hush, I've snapped one of those exhaust studs on the 500 I used to have so beleive me I'm careful. As soon as it starts getting tight I start sweating and am pretty careful, but I am known to overtighten stuff. At this point I'm not really worried about the smoke, like I said, it's really faint and I'm thinking it may just be coming from the pipes where the oil leak spilled on them.

I'm glad everyone is agreeing about it being an air leak, that seemed the most likely culprit to me as well. I'm going to check all the clamps and see if any of them vibrated loose or not. One of the hazards of playing mix and match with parts from many different bikes is sometimes things don't fit exactly and this is likely one of those situations. I'm trying to decide if I want to just get the regular hose clamps that the auto store has (they really don't have any class to them and lets face it, these bikes are classy ladies) or troll eBay and see if I can find any off of a 500 or 750. I need to check my stockpile, I should have some from the 500 I picked up as well. 

When you guys are riding do your guages read pretty smoothly? Like I said, my speedo was really kind of bouncy and didn't seem right to me. I'm really wondering if the little plastic gear (seriously, plastic?? HONDA, what were you thinking?!?) where the speedo cable bites into is stripped or something. Or maybe the lube thats in it is sticking or something. I obviously have to take the tachometer apart, as funny as it is to have that faceplate rotating around like a possessed clock, I need it functional. I was worried about it not passing saftey, but it just occured to me that most modern bikes don't even have tachs so it shouldn't matter.

Above all I need to remember, it took a few months to get the 500 running pretty reliably but I did it, and with determination and the help of all the wonderful people of this forum I'll do it with this bike as well!

Brandon

P.S. The baby is adorable, she didn't even cry the entire time I held her! Haha, sorry, I know this is a biker forum and we're all supposed to be hard a$$ bikers, but I have a soft spot for kids.

[Zaipai]

P.S. The baby is adorable, she didn't even cry the entire time I held her! Haha, sorry, I know this is a biker forum and we're all supposed to be hard a$$ bikers, but I have a soft spot for kids.

I think we are mostly family bikers here so most of use like a cute baby pic now and again..

Good luck with the bike, sounds like a few small problems that can be ironed out. I had a problem like your speedo once, it turned out to be the speedometer cable, I replaced it and it was as smooth as silk.. not sure that's your issue but it maybe worth looking at since its some what easy to remove and test.

.: Scott :.

[The_Crippler]

Haha, sorry, I know this is a biker forum and we're all supposed to be hard a$$ bikers, but I have a soft spot for kids.

Yes, but it's an old Honda forum.  I'm betting that a number of the "hard a$$ bikers" in here have grand-babies and have left the macho posturing behind them.

For some of your questions:

Not sure about these bikes, but my Suzuki of similar design and age had a pretty bouncy speedo.  It wasn't a 5mph jump every now and again, but it was a constant jiggle.

For your inspection, I guess that all depends on your state and your local shop.  I know that some shops here say that if it came on the bike, it has to work.  Others say that, so long as state regs are met, they're cool with whatever.  Short answer - if you're concerned, call your shop and ask.  Mine has been a lot of help in that area.

[manjisann]

Good luck with the bike, sounds like a few small problems that can be ironed out. I had a problem like your speedo once, it turned out to be the speedometer cable, I replaced it and it was as smooth as silk.. not sure that's your issue but it maybe worth looking at since its some what easy to remove and test.

Cable is brand new so I'm not sure that's the problem, but since I'm going to have to start pulling stuff anyhow I'll check it and lube it up. I'm planning on dissassembling the guages and fixing the screws (can you say locktite   ) and cleaning up whatever I can. I'll be searching the forum for that thread that goes over pulling them apart and fixing them. I'll have to get some graphite powder to lube the actual guages as I don't think anything else is advisable.

I think we are mostly family bikers here so most of use like a cute baby pic now and again..

Yeah, that's one of the things that makes this forum great. I don't plan on posting tons of pics of her, but she's the first niece or nephew on my side of the family so she's pretty special to me. Anyhow, back to biker stuff  

I'm just going to have to remain possitive, considering what I started with and the fact I'd never heard the engine run before starting this adventure, I'd say things have gone very well. Well off to school.

Brandon

[Zaipai]

Yea I bet its not the cable as its new. So must just need to be clean and lubed, tho I don't have a lot of exp with this sort of thing. I probably should have do the locktite thing on mine as well.. dang..

I agree seems like you have done a great job.. it will get there..

.: Scott :.

[Frankenkit]

tach and speedo might smooth out with use- could be old grease in the speedo drive that needs to be beaten smooth again.

Use some WD-40 and brake kleen to test for an air leak at your boots. 

Get 'er started and idling, then spray the WD-40 around the boots real good.  If your rpms go up, you have a leak.

If not, then try the brake kleen.  Spray that around.  That stuff will sometimes work when WD40 doesn't. 

[manjisann]

I agree seems like you have done a great job.. it will get there..

Thanks 

I got home from school and measured the battery voltage again, 12.65v so it seams that once it cools a bit the voltage goes down. That's a good thing I think.

I started her up and sprayed the boots with carb cleaner, no change in idle. The throttle was responsive like it should be. Admittedly she was fairly cold so that may have something to do with it. I'm wondering if as the engine warms up the boots warm up and soften just enough to flex and let air in. Some of the clamps around the boots aren't super tight (they are too big I believe). I'm going to go and get some hose clamps and replace all 8 of them and see if that helps te situation any.

I've also got to search the site and find the thread on guage disassembly and break mine down and fix them. When I was idling her just barely theres a lot of top end noise again, I wonder if my valves are loosening up a little after I run her.

Well hopefully Soos is able to stop by and tell me what he thinks. Until then I'm off to run my errands.

Brandon

[Hush]

Good call on letting Soos check your valve gaps, they are a true #$%* to get right and after an initial run they may need that recheck.
Your speedo and tach troubles are 99% inside the actual clocks so have fun on the kitchen table with all the wee parts.

[manjisann]

Soos is a good guy, uber busy but still takes time to come by and check my stuff out. He took the bike for a ride, he's a lot heavier on the throttle than me, not a bad thing, just a difference in style of riding styles and a good thing since she needs to be put through the ringer. Anyhow, he says all in all the bikes in pretty good shape and gave some suggestions. The plan at the moment is to check the valve clearances again, adjust the cam chain (apparently loosening the top bolt a wee bit will help it adjust better), change the exhaust donuts at least on the left two and replace the boot clamps. Once I get it back where it should be, ride the bike to warm it up really good and then fiddle with the ignition advancer, that may take care of the idling issue and weird throttle response issue. He also thinks the carbs are likely running too rich, especially for the lower rpms since it doesn't respond well once it has warmed up. That isn't really a surprise considering they are for a 750 AND were tuned for his hopped up bike. Anyhow, all in all I'm pleased with his assessment, in addition to confirming my thoughts he suggested some other things (like advancing or retarding the ignition). I have a plan of attack so I'm happy.

Now to figure out my gauges and try hard not to lose all the wee bits in there.

Brandon

[Hush]

Not sure what you mean by "apparently loosening the top bolt a wee bit will help it adjust better" but I'm always open to learning new stuff especially from a cronic fiddler like Soos.
As far as I know there is only the one adjuster nut for the 650 and that is your legendary "acorn".
So if you get time can you explain what Soos meant please Brandon as my cam adjuster is at about it's last adjust.

[manjisann]

Bugger, I broke the needle on my tach 

Brandon