Topic: Why are the carbs and airbox so freaking hard to get off and back on the bike???

[MrHellpop]

I cannot believe what a challenge it is to get the carbs off and then back onto my 77 750k!!!! It is by far the most difficult thing I have had to deal with on the bike! I'm not really asking for suggestions, just venting! 
I've taken them off and got them on again previously, but this time it's even more of a pain in the ass! I've now wrestled with getting them back on for about an hour in a standard Texas night where my garage is about 95 degrees F... Sweat everywhere, running in my eyes, glasses falling off my face trying to make those little boots get on the intake throats of the carbs. aaaargh! I even thought it'd be easier this time because I am using a little L shaped tool to try to slip them onto the carbs. No luck yet! Two of the clamps were smooshed while I was jamming the carbs into the frame. I figure I'll straighten em out and re curve them once the boots are on the throats. Of course the two in the middle are pretty much impossible to get on, but the outside ones are less of a challenge. It's enough to make me want to get pods just to avoid dealing with that damn airbox!
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Hush]

Yeah we feel your pain brother.
I've found that tapping the carbs forward using a block of wood on the shoulders and a hammer makes em go on easy enough, the airfilter boots are a pain to line up but at least they are softer.
Beer helps, that and time away from the dreaded carbs, go buy more beer and by then you will have stopped sweating and will be ready to try again.

[Alan F.]

my garage is about 95 degrees F... Sweat everywhere, running in my eyes, glasses falling off my face

I know just what you mean.

I recommend tying a rag around your head to catch the beads of sweat before they get into your eyes/glasses, those 'rags-in-a-box' paper towel type rags work great just tear off three, roll them up and tie them on.  They'll keep your face dry and when they get damp they'll help keep your head cooler

[Johnny5]

The last time I had to put the carbs on, I used a cheap little $9 heat gun from Harbor Freight and warmed up the rubber boots. The carbs seriously went on in less than a minute. In the past, it took easily a half an hour, 50 curses, and a couple bloody knuckles to get them on.

The best $9 I ever spent.

[Jonesy]

Beer helps, that and time away from the dreaded carbs, go buy more beer and by then you will have stopped sweating and will be ready to try again.

I don't drink when working on anything mechanical anymore. You get to bound and determined to accomplish whatever you're doing that you don't stop to think of the consequences.. often breaking something in the process (don't ask me how I know...).

New carb and airbox boots will work wonders for carb installation and removal. They are still available from Honda and are cheap insurance.

[rhinoracer]

I'm not really asking for suggestions, just venting! 

A little searching before installing the carbs would have helped.

In my case a 2x4 against the carbs, a ratchet strap to pull forward the 2x4 against the frame downtubes. No blood, no sweat, no beer.

[medic09]

New carb and airbox boots will work wonders for carb installation and removal. They are still available from Honda and are cheap insurance.

+1  !

[Laminar]

Just get pods.
Oh no, look out!

[crazypj]

750 is the easiest one to do.
Just put top part of airbox on first, assemble lower section after its fitted correctly (and be glad you don't have a 350/400f)

PJ

[Gordon]

New boots!  New boots!  New boots!

It's just that easy...

[MCRider]

I smeared a little lube like armor all on the lips of the boots. Any rubber preservative should work. Tire changing lube.

Also, 2x4 lever, never tried the ratchet straps but heard they work well.

[HondaMan]

On all 750s I work on, I spray the boots inside with silicone as soon as I remove the carbs, then spray again just before installation. And, if it is more than a day in between, I spray once or twice more on the whole boot(s) so it can soak in an liven up the old rubber a little. I still have the original boots from 1971, and the carbs come off with a twist and go on with a pop and that (2x4 + leverage) mentioned above, in 5 minutes or less. 

BTW: someone here talked about using wintergreen to soak these boots and bring them back to life: anyone know where can you get that stuff?

[Alan F.]

I think you can find it at most natural foods type stores, maybe pharmacies, or probably your best bet might be aromatherapy type shops.

http://yp.yahoo.com/ypResults.py?stp=y&stx=96296287&city=Lakewood&state=CO&uzip=80226&msa=2080&slt=39.7038&sln=-105.081268&cs=4&qtx=aromatherapy

[MCRider]

I remember reading that some time ago. I think someone was adding Wintergreen to an existing product like Rubber Renu thinking it would help. Many thought it was unnecessary and did not improve the product.

Makes it smell better?   

[tlbranth]

I just ordered new manifold boots from David Silver and was a bit disappointed to find that they are pretty stiff. Not much better than my 39 year-old ones. But I can tell you how to get the carb assembly and the airbox on pretty easily. Squirt some Armorall on a paper towel and wipe it around the inside of the rubbers to be assaulted. Straddle the bike, position the part/assembly and push while arcing it up and down. It'll go right on.

[Johnie]

I also use a little lube and a 2x4 for some leverage and they popped back on.  I have had them off and on a few times and having that lube on there helps them to come off much easier too.

[Laminar]

I also use a little lube and a 2x4 for some leverage

Sounds like a fun night.

[Gordon]

I'd steer clear of the Armorall when dealing with the carb boots.  Silicone lubricant is probably best and won't degrade the rubber. 

[tomkimberly]

750 is the easiest one to do.
Just put top part of airbox on first, assemble lower section after its fitted correctly (and be glad you don't have a 350/400f)

PJ

350F's are easy....





Tom

[coldright]

I like the heat gun idea, softer would help those damn things alright.  I had to chuckle after reading this thread.  A friend helped me get the carbs off my 750 this past Sunday... After much struggling, cussin', and sweating, they finally came off - after the airbox, of course.  At one point there were three of us manhandling the bike.  My friend wasn't feeling well before we went into this misadventure and afterwards he said he felt like he wanted to throw up.

Glad to know the new boots aren't any softer... I was thinking about ordering a new set due to this whole thing.  Do you remember what they cost?

[Inkscars]

Oh honey. I can get mine off, disassembled, swap jets, move needles and back together and on in a little less than an hour.
You can do it. Take a step back. Take a look at it.
The 77s like to try your patience. don't let it win!!!!!!
If you  need something, pm me, I may be able to help!

[Dave-and-his-550]

You guys are referring to the intake boots? Or the airbox rubbers?

I'm not sure how different the 550 is, but when I take off my carbs, I first pull off each airbox rubber, then with a strap (Kind of like pictured above) I pull back the airbox as much as possible. Completely loosen and pull the intake clamps away from the carbs, and they pull right out. Then it takes just a little bit of moving back and forth, up and down and the carbs slide out.

I was surprised how easy it was!

[Inkscars]

I leave the intake side boots on the carb bank. Too easy to get them spun a little out of whack.
I use P.T.F.E to smooth the reinstall process.

[brianzenk]

After taking apart the carbs a few times on the cb550 1976.
I would pop the boots into the airbox install the carbs
then pull the boots thru the air box from the inside
starting with the inside boots first and work outwards.

[Johnny5]

Seriously, before I was using the heat gun method, I swear I was rocking the carbs back and forth so hard, I had to steady the bike from tipping over. Even with my brother's help, it was a complete pain.


Heat. Gun.

[MrHellpop]

Finally got everything back together!!! What made everything go MUCH smoother: taking the bottom half of the airbox off! With only the top half in the frame it's much easier to get the airbox boots onto the carb. A twisting while pushing motion gets those boots on much better than just pushing. Once everything is clamped tight, it's a snap to screw the bottom half of the airbox back on. I salute the Honda engineers for their design prowess, but easy removal/reinstall of the carbs don't win any props in my book 

[Gordon]

because I know what a pain boots are, I have been removing my carbs along with the intake manifold. Sure, its eight nuts and washers, but it sure beats the pain of dealing with the boots.

These bikes don't have an intake manifold.  Which part are you talking about?

[HondaMan]

because I know what a pain boots are, I have been removing my carbs along with the intake manifold. Sure, its eight nuts and washers, but it sure beats the pain of dealing with the boots.

These bikes don't have an intake manifold.  Which part are you talking about?

I think he's talking about the 550.... 

[HondaMan]

I think you can find it at most natural foods type stores, maybe pharmacies, or probably your best bet might be aromatherapy type shops.

http://yp.yahoo.com/ypResults.py?stp=y&stx=96296287&city=Lakewood&state=CO&uzip=80226&msa=2080&slt=39.7038&sln=-105.081268&cs=4&qtx=aromatherapy

Thanks, Alan! There's one near here. I think I'll go visit them: I have three 750s in pieces in the back, waiting to become whole again. The boots are in boxes, so I know how that's going to go... 

[tbpmusic]

I think you can find it at most natural foods type stores, maybe pharmacies, or probably your best bet might be aromatherapy type shops.

http://yp.yahoo.com/ypResults.py?stp=y&stx=96296287&city=Lakewood&state=CO&uzip=80226&msa=2080&slt=39.7038&sln=-105.081268&cs=4&qtx=aromatherapy

Thanks, Alan! There's one near here. I think I'll go visit them: I have three 750s in pieces in the back, waiting to become whole again. The boots are in boxes, so I know how that's going to go... 

The wintergreen oil is completely unnecessary, and expensive too.
Try plain ol' Xylol from the hardware store.
Diesel also works, too - this is what an auto-glass buddy uses to soften up winshield gaskets in place before removing..

The part will swell somewhat initially - I soak the rubber in Xylol for a couple of hours, then let it rest for a couple of days. It will regain its initial size and shape, but will be flexible for some time.
Eventually however, it will get hard again - you can only reverse the effects of Time for a short while.

[ev0lve]

+ however many folks have said it. Struggled to get mine back on. Finally stuck the boots under a work light for an hour or so rotating every 15 minutes to get them evenly heated and life became much better at that point.

I wonder if there's enough water in them for a microwave to do anything? Probably not. I suppose you could drop them in a bowl of water and nuke them that way if you can't wait. Hmmm,, probably ought to try that 

[MCRider]

+ however many folks have said it. Struggled to get mine back on. Finally stuck the boots under a work light for an hour or so rotating every 15 minutes to get them evenly heated and life became much better at that point.

I wonder if there's enough water in them for a microwave to do anything? Probably not. I suppose you could drop them in a bowl of water and nuke them that way if you can't wait. Hmmm,, probably ought to try that 

people are saying a heat gun works. They get kinda hot. So a compromise between a heat gun and a work light might be a hair dryer. I keep one of the missus cast offs in the shop. Has helped on things, but I keep forgetting to use it. Helped get the screen out of the oil pump.

[andy750]

You guys are making it hard on yourselves....

A couple of years ago i bought new boots (both engine-carb can carb-airbox) and yes it makes a huge difference. However the biggest difference is lining up the carb-engine rubbers so that they are orientated correctly. When they are they should form a flat straight line so that all you need to do is press the carbs in (with your hands not a 2x4! do you think Honda engineers had a 2x4 lying around the factory  ). Occassionaly if its particularly cold (and in winter in Boston it gets a bit chilly) I might pre-heat with a hairdryer.

The carb-airbox are even easier with new boots and yes only using half-the airbox is the key.

The above should only take less than 5 min otherwise you are not doing it correctly....proper alignment is the key!

cheers
Andy

[ofreen]

Andy is 100% correct.  If someone receives new boots that are as hard as 30+ year old ones, they should return them.  Get new ones, odds are good that when those are too hard in 30 years, you won't care.  In the meantime, make life easy on yourself.  Fresh boots seal better, anyway.

[Hush]

No comparison with old and new carb isolators, I was using a 30 year old set and it was like trying to put your grand kids gumboots on!
A forum member sold me some new ones cheap (thanks again Soos) and the carbs just about fell into place, don't know why I persisited so long with the old ones that also had a leak which ruined my tuning.

[jmckinne]

The most important part of Andy's post is the part about having the correct lineup of the intake boots on the cylinder head. It really isn't necessary to use 2x4 type pressure even with old boots.

1) Make damn sure you have the cylinder side boots set on there correctly. Correct number on each cylinder facing up, etc.

2) Leave the boots on the cylinder head but have the clamps on the cylinder side loose.

3) Press the carbs into place, a few taps with a rubber mallet will do just fine. The boots will "self-align" on the cylinder heads.

4) Tighten all 8 cylinder side boot clamps.

Once you've done that one time the cylinder side boot alignment should be fine and it will be easy next time.

On the airbox side, doing just the top half first is the key, but getting all four airbox rubbers on far enough always pisses me off. If anyone has any great tips on that I'm all ears.

[HondaMan]

I think you can find it at most natural foods type stores, maybe pharmacies, or probably your best bet might be aromatherapy type shops.

http://yp.yahoo.com/ypResults.py?stp=y&stx=96296287&city=Lakewood&state=CO&uzip=80226&msa=2080&slt=39.7038&sln=-105.081268&cs=4&qtx=aromatherapy

Thanks, Alan! There's one near here. I think I'll go visit them: I have three 750s in pieces in the back, waiting to become whole again. The boots are in boxes, so I know how that's going to go... 

The wintergreen oil is completely unnecessary, and expensive too.
Try plain ol' Xylol from the hardware store.
Diesel also works, too - this is what an auto-glass buddy uses to soften up winshield gaskets in place before removing..

The part will swell somewhat initially - I soak the rubber in Xylol for a couple of hours, then let it rest for a couple of days. It will regain its initial size and shape, but will be flexible for some time.
Eventually however, it will get hard again - you can only reverse the effects of Time for a short while.

Well, diesel is cheap (so am I    ), and whatever would be left over can go into my old parts cleaner soaking can, since that's what came in it in "the old days" (diesel + detergent = clean aluminum). Maybe I'll start there, since I'm currently broke and need some more carb body cleaner stuff: kill two birds, as they say...

When I'm rich, I'm still gonna try wintergreen: the idea of a pine-scented 750 in Colorado just has a ring to it. 

[lowmileage]

750 is the easiest one to do.
Just put top part of airbox on first, assemble lower section after its fitted correctly (and be glad you don't have a 350/400f)

PJ

Thanks for the hint.  It's impossible any other way - well, unless you use a sledgehammer.

[76CB5WI]

The 750 is a literal peach to work on after the 550 which can turn
a good day into a bad one..with those clearances..