Author Topic: What to use to drive/pull sleeves from 750 cylinder block? (Read 5736 times)

scondon · « **on:** June 18, 2009, 03:02:56 PM »

Sorry if this has been covered before, but my search didn't pull any specific answer.

I'm removing a damaged sleeve from my block and have hit a snag. Method I'm using is heat the block on the bbq until very hot, then slip a wet rag in the sleeve and drive it out with wood block and rubber mallet. The sleeve does not "fall right out" as others have reported, but with minimal persuasion I have driven it halfway out and the bottom of the sleeve is now flush with the base of the cylinder block.

I can no longer "drive" it from the bottom without risk of damaging the block. There just isn't enough meat on the sleeve to put a tool to( sleeves have been bored to 836 ). Any pointers on what to use to "pull" the sleeve from the top of the block without damaging the head gasket mating surface?

scondon · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:21:07 PM »

Tried again, this time with frozen wet rag and sizzling hot block. Sleeve nearly falls out as reported, simple matter to pull/twist it out. Thanks to those who posted this method before, never doubt the knowledge on this forum

Old Scrambler · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:21:55 PM »

Heat usually works.......sounds like you drove the bottom up before you cleaned the surface.......when hot, try ice in the cylinder............put the block in your freezer and then heat the outside of the barrel you are working on.

torrinh · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:22:41 PM »

I believe Hondaman can give you some pointers. His method involves heating the block, then putting a bunch of penetrating oil around the sleeves. Do this a bunch of times and they're supposed to slip right out.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:42:22 PM »

Buddy, if you get those 1000s before me I'll be pissed........

scondon · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:51:48 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Rxman Griffin on June 18, 2009, 03:42:22 PM

Buddy, if you get those 1000s before me I'll be pissed........

haha, still waiting Jerry

I've finally gotten around to tearing down the engine that threw a rod last season. Amazing what DIDN'T get damaged, aside from the cases. Just need to replace rod, sleeve, piston, and sadly the APE crank(more expensive to repair the journal than to just get another).

scondon · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:56:02 PM »

Quote from: Old Scrambler on June 18, 2009, 03:21:55 PM

Heat usually works.......sounds like you drove the bottom up before you cleaned the surface.......when hot, try ice in the cylinder............put the block in your freezer and then heat the outside of the barrel you are working on.

Yes, the heat differential seems to be the key point. Got the block hotter and used a frozen wet rag in the cylinder. The sleeve I'm using as a replacement shot right out of the block, smooth as butter

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:59:23 PM »

Quote from: scondon on June 18, 2009, 03:51:48 PM

Quote from: Jerry Rxman Griffin on June 18, 2009, 03:42:22 PM
Buddy, if you get those 1000s before me I'll be pissed........

haha, still waiting Jerry I've finally gotten around to tearing down the engine that threw a rod last season. Amazing what DIDN'T get damaged, aside from the cases. Just need to replace rod, sleeve, piston, and sadly the APE crank(more expensive to repair the journal than to just get another).

I've tried to talk Jay into giving you an internship position but he's just not listening.

754 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2009, 04:01:40 PM »

Oven, 375 f

invert cylinder with 2x4s under iones you dont want to pull,

if it dont fall out, push it with a screwdriver handle or wood block.

joeb · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2009, 03:31:28 PM »

Glad to see you got the part out Sean, took me three days to get the push rod out of the mastercylinder I picked up the other day I to had to use lots of heat.

scondon · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2009, 04:02:17 PM »

Quote from: joeb on June 19, 2009, 03:31:28 PM

Glad to see you got the part out Sean, took me three days to get the push rod out of the mastercylinder I picked up the other day I to had to use lots of heat.

Gettin' it out was easy compared to gettin' the replacement back in

Sweep · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2009, 04:05:30 PM »

Hey Sean, any idea what caused the motor to throw a rod? What was the mileage, what were you doing when it happened, etc.

Since I have very much the same motor as you it's good data.

scondon · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2009, 04:35:03 PM »

Quote from: Sweep on June 19, 2009, 04:05:30 PM

Hey Sean, any idea what caused the motor to throw a rod? What was the mileage, what were you doing when it happened, etc.

Since I have very much the same motor as you it's good data.

Exactly what I built the engine for, Sweep.......DATA

I used the stock F3 rods and had them shot peened, polished, and finished to matching weights. I used new F3 rod bolts/nuts torqued to spec (18.1 ft/lbs?). I had the Dyna 2000 limiter set at 10,500rpm and hit it often.

Engine had 20,000 miles on it when the rod cut loose. I was doing successive sprints on a long,straight, empty road i.e. slow to 20mph then run through the gears to 120mph, slow to 20mph, repeat. On the third time it came apart. I was not kind to this motor, and expected failure at some point.

The head was busted off one rod bolt, but not sure if this was cause or result. Judging by the remnants of the plain bearings, I would guess that I spun the rod bearing and failure followed immediately. The crank journal looks pristine except for the divot the rod punched as it skipped off

I'm replacing the crank,rod, sleeve, piston and cases. Setting the limiter at 9500 this time and hoping for another 20,000

Sweep · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2009, 06:53:18 PM »

That motor did really well considering. I have the Carillos and I have my limiter set to 10k and I don't hit it often. Nice to know it can take that abuse. I'd be happy to get 20k, that's awesome.

MRieck · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2009, 07:03:23 PM »

Quote from: Sweep on June 19, 2009, 06:53:18 PM

That motor did really well considering. I have the Carillos and I have my limiter set to 10k and I don't hit it often. Nice to know it can take that abuse. I'd be happy to get 20k, that's awesome.

You could set that at 100K with Carrillo's

754 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2009, 08:17:31 PM »

I probably ran my 836 with stock rods to 10,500.. probably at least 500 times.. mostly winding it out thru the gears, and they held up.. for over 2 decades..

But now that I talked about it, I could probably never do it again...

Just split the cases on the 69 lower end... no holes from the rod, but some damage & it needs some work...

Plus a hole from broken chain, I suspected that.. at least it is a good inch from the mating surface.. so easier to deal with..

What happened to your cases?

bucky katt · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2009, 08:22:29 PM »

Quote from: scondon on June 19, 2009, 04:35:03 PM

Quote from: Sweep on June 19, 2009, 04:05:30 PM
Hey Sean, any idea what caused the motor to throw a rod? What was the mileage, what were you doing when it happened, etc.

Since I have very much the same motor as you it's good data.

Exactly what I built the engine for, Sweep.......DATA

I used the stock F3 rods and had them shot peened, polished, and finished to matching weights. I used new F3 rod bolts/nuts torqued to spec (18.1 ft/lbs?). I had the Dyna 2000 limiter set at 10,500rpm and hit it often.

Engine had 20,000 miles on it when the rod cut loose. I was doing successive sprints on a long,straight, empty road i.e. slow to 20mph then run through the gears to 120mph, slow to 20mph, repeat. On the third time it came apart. I was not kind to this motor, and expected failure at some point.

The head was busted off one rod bolt, but not sure if this was cause or result. Judging by the remnants of the plain bearings, I would guess that I spun the rod bearing and failure followed immediately. The crank journal looks pristine except for the divot the rod punched as it skipped off

I'm replacing the crank,rod, sleeve, piston and cases. Setting the limiter at 9500 this time and hoping for another 20,000

i have the f3 rods that have been shot peened, polished and fit with larger arp studs. the ones ken at cyclex used to sell. i'm hoping that these will do for as street motor.

Big Jay · « **Reply #17 on:** June 19, 2009, 10:39:11 PM »

We heat the blocks with a two burner hot plate. covered with a large metal "tote pan". Leave it on for an hour, and the sleeves fall out, no coaxing required. The exception is if there has been a piston or rod grenaded and deformed the sleeve. Then we just put it into the boring machine and bore it out.

754 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 19, 2009, 10:51:02 PM »

Dont assume a hot plate, wont get very hot, or turn your back on it. I have one that seems to go on redhot, no matter where the switch is set.

I used to warm HD heads on it, to remove guides. I put a piece of 1/4 Aluminum plate on it a bit bigger than the burner, to spread the heat, and I would spit test the heads to see when they were hot enough.

Anyway, one day I left it on, after removing the heads. As I walked by the aluminum plate looked a bit funny, a bit of a pattern to it, like the burner.. well it was molten directly over the burner..

.. if I had flicked it, it woulda sprayed all over..

BTW, a hot plate is what you use when you are no longer a batchelor, or after the ONE & ONLY time, you use the little womans oven to cure paint or remove sleeves...

Sweep · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2009, 06:15:02 AM »

Quote from: MRieck on June 19, 2009, 07:03:23 PM

Quote from: Sweep on June 19, 2009, 06:53:18 PM
That motor did really well considering. I have the Carillos and I have my limiter set to 10k and I don't hit it often. Nice to know it can take that abuse. I'd be happy to get 20k, that's awesome.
You could set that at 100K with Carrillo's

miles? I need to stop babying this bike.

MRieck · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2009, 06:44:40 AM »

Quote from: Sweep on June 20, 2009, 06:15:02 AM

Quote from: MRieck on June 19, 2009, 07:03:23 PM
Quote from: Sweep on June 19, 2009, 06:53:18 PM
That motor did really well considering. I have the Carillos and I have my limiter set to 10k and I don't hit it often. Nice to know it can take that abuse. I'd be happy to get 20k, that's awesome.
You could set that at 100K with Carrillo's

miles? I need to stop babying this bike.

No....RPM's..

scondon · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2009, 01:45:49 PM »

Quote from: 754 on June 19, 2009, 08:17:31 PM

What happened to your cases?

Quote from: 754 on June 19, 2009, 08:17:31 PM

I probably ran my 836 with stock rods to 10,500.. probably at least 500 times.. mostly winding it out thru the gears, and they held up.. for over 2 decades..

It's the 732nd time that does it

scondon · « **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2009, 01:58:42 PM »

So I got the replacement cylinder in, but it doesn't sit exactly flush with the mating surface. I'm guessing about .003", or enough to catch a fingernail on. I cleaned the cylinder and sleeve meticulously, especially where the lip seats, so am wondering if others have experienced this and why.

I used some penetrating lube when installing and wonder if this was a good idea, and whether liquid lube was trapped under the lip causing it to sit proud of the mating surface. I'll be throwing it back on the bbq for another go at getting it flush, just wondering if the sleeves are machined to exact standards.

MRieck · « **Reply #23 on:** June 23, 2009, 03:09:49 PM »

Just have the cylinder decked Sean. Looking at that pic I can see the bolt. It doesn't look the ones I've been getting. The ones I've bought have a straight sank...no cuts along the shaft.

scondon · « **Reply #24 on:** June 23, 2009, 04:39:25 PM »

Quote from: MRieck on June 23, 2009, 03:09:49 PM

Just have the cylinder decked Sean. Looking at that pic I can see the bolt. It doesn't look the ones I've been getting. The ones I've bought have a straight sank...no cuts along the shaft.

Yeah, couldn't figure why they would do that, but it was from Honda and was correct part #. I've been a bit preoccupied with the job search, and have just now found my stash of F3 rods. You'll have them next week

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Author Topic: What to use to drive/pull sleeves from 750 cylinder block? (Read 5736 times)