Author Topic: 1980 650C engine removal, not going as planned, help please! (Read 2589 times)

manjisann · « **on:** June 19, 2009, 09:42:36 PM »

I am trying to remove the engine from my 1980 CB650 Custom. I built a snazzy little crane and cradle to lift it with so I don't sprain my back or damage the engine ( I hope). Removed all the bolts but one very stubborn one on the back of the engine. It is also getting hung up on an engine hanger in the front. Please don't tell me I have to disassemble the top end to get this out. I want to remove it as a whole, put it on the engine stand, put a cover over it, and get the body and painting done, then work on the engine. Is there some sort of trick to this? Can I grind the weld off holding the tab in the second picture, as it looks like it will be held on just fine by the bolts running through the frame. This is rather discouraging.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Brandon

scunny · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2009, 09:47:07 PM »

the motor comes out the right hand side, the bottom frame rail comes off. you also have to remove the front two engine mounts. if that first picture is showing the bolt that is stuck......that has to come out

Hush · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2009, 02:00:42 AM »

As master Scunny said mate, remove the lower righthand frame rail and you are halfway there, that long bolt you can't get out is the rear engine mount, take the weight off the engine with a jack and it should pull out, if not place a piece of solid wood against the threaded end and belt it with a hammer.

manjisann · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:20:45 AM »

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the motor comes out the right hand side, the bottom frame rail comes off. you also have to remove the front two engine mounts. if that first picture is showing the bolt that is stuck......that has to come out

That one front engine mount in the pic is tack welded in place. Guess I'll get the ol Dremel out and carefully remove the weld. I didn't see where the lower frame rail came off the frame, but since I wasn't really looking I must have missed it. Is it just bolted in place? I'll definately check.

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Insert Quote
As master Scunny said mate, remove the lower righthand frame rail and you are halfway there, that long bolt you can't get out is the rear engine mount, take the weight off the engine with a jack and it should pull out, if not place a piece of solid wood against the threaded end and belt it with a hammer.

Tried the wood on the threads trick, but it's pretty in there. I think once I get the front engine mount off, and the side rail off it will be easier to unstick it.

On a side note, Hush, have you not checked out my build thread?? I'm kinda hurt, I had a pic in there just for you

A lovely NZ air filter I believe!

Thanks guys, I'll report back when I get this done.

Brandon

Calflash · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2009, 11:31:59 AM »

You could lay the frame and motor on the right side and take the frame off the motor.

WFO · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2009, 12:09:37 PM »

It will take you about 15 minutes to pull the top end off and if your going to work on the motor anyways i really don't see what your reservations are about removing it now? plus it will make taking the motor out way easier.

manjisann · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2009, 12:39:42 PM »

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You could lay the frame and motor on the right side and take the frame off the motor.

I was trying to avoid that. I built a lift to pull the engine up and help mount it on the engine stand, but it isn't long enough to reach the ground.

Quote

It will take you about 15 minutes to pull the top end off and if your going to work on the motor anyways i really don't see what your reservations are about removing it now? plus it will make taking the motor out way easier.

Maybe I'm just being anal (I'm that way sometimes

) but I really just wanted to take it out as one unit, mount it to the engine holder, cover it with a tarp and get all the painting and body work done before I tear into the engine. I'm trying to do one set of things at a time in an effort not to have everything strung out from here to BFE, although I'm not doing such a great job.

Also, with that one engine mount on the front of the bike being welded there (I swear it is!) it can't be lifted as it hits on the lower case. If the engine mount is supposed to come off and one of the lower frame rails as well, I'd rather go that route. This bike was laid down on that side a while back, didn't appear to be anything major, no frame damage that I can see, but they must have welded the piece back on there or something. Darn PO's.

Brandon

combat77 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:59:23 PM »

Listen to Scunny. As far as the rear mount, if you can't spin it then something is up. When you do get to pounding it out, use a little penetrating oil, take the weight off (not too much...put a wrench on it, the easier it spins the better), and use the flared nut put on backwards to give yourself a little more surface area for your wood block (I use a brass hammer). Once started remove the nut and use a drift. Watch those threads! Also a word to the wise, tape your frame. Take some high quality duct tape put it on your shirt or something else with a bit of lint and then your frame. This will save your paint. Check your manual. It will tell you what you need to remove to get your motor out.

Hush · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2009, 05:21:45 PM »

The only thing I can think is that the PO did not realise that the right side frame rail was "supposed to come out" and welded it in ignorance so maybe you do have to remove the weld around that bracket.
I would temporarily put the lower rear engine mount back in just so the engine is back in straight, then have another go at removing the top engine bolt.
Liberal amounts of CRC or whatever you guys in the states have as a penetrating spray will help but in the end that bolt slides out, there is nothing but dust dirt and stuborness holding it in.
The bolt is like stainless steel and the engine case is alloy so no rust, my only thought is that somehow the PO bent that long bolt and then hammered it in.
It will have to come out the same way but replacing the lower bolt will as I said starighten the whole thing up for you, it may even assist with that front bracket removal.

manjisann · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2009, 03:51:12 AM »

Thank you all!

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I think I've been barking up the wrong tree. I looked at it again last night, and I see how the right lower rail comes off at the back of the rail. I looked at the front engine bracket, and sure enough, it has been welded, but the more I think about it, the more I think it was welded to only one side of the joint, I believe the lower side. So now that the 1 watt light bulb has flickered on weakly, it occurs to me that the front engine mount will come off with the lower rail. I won't have a chance to verify this until Monday. *sigh* I feel like such a noob

I will report back on monday, hopefully with pics of the engine successfully removed!

Thanks again!

Brandon

moham · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2009, 07:47:35 AM »

Quote from: manjisann on June 20, 2009, 12:39:42 PM

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You could lay the frame and motor on the right side and take the frame off the motor.

I was trying to avoid that. I built a lift to pull the engine up and help mount it on the engine stand, but it isn't long enough to reach the ground.

Quote
It will take you about 15 minutes to pull the top end off and if your going to work on the motor anyways i really don't see what your reservations are about removing it now? plus it will make taking the motor out way easier.

Maybe I'm just being anal (I'm that way sometimes ) but I really just wanted to take it out as one unit, mount it to the engine holder, cover it with a tarp and get all the painting and body work done before I tear into the engine. I'm trying to do one set of things at a time in an effort not to have everything strung out from here to BFE, although I'm not doing such a great job.

Also, with that one engine mount on the front of the bike being welded there (I swear it is!) it can't be lifted as it hits on the lower case. If the engine mount is supposed to come off and one of the lower frame rails as well, I'd rather go that route. This bike was laid down on that side a while back, didn't appear to be anything major, no frame damage that I can see, but they must have welded the piece back on there or something. Darn PO's.

Brandon

I think you need to do the engine work First and then Paint. You will be breaking loose seized bolts, soaking parts in degreaser, possibly blasting some bits. If you really want to be anal about it, tear the engine down, blast the cases, clean thoroughly, repair/replace motor bits, reassemble, then tape and paint.

manjisann · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:11:09 AM »

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I think you need to do the engine work First and then Paint. You will be breaking loose seized bolts, soaking parts in degreaser, possibly blasting some bits. If you really want to be anal about it, tear the engine down, blast the cases, clean thoroughly, repair/replace motor bits, reassemble, then tape and paint.

My bad, I didn't explain myself very well. I'm looking at my build as two separate parts, the engine, and everything else (ie frame, wheels, etc). I meant I wanted to paint the frame part first and worry abou the engine part second. I plan on taking the engine apart, walnut blasting it to remove the old paint, repainting it and reassembling it with new seals and whatever else I find needs to be done.

Brandon

Hush · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2009, 11:42:36 AM »

Your plan seems alright Brandon, pretty up the frame and accessories then worry about the motor.
You have another bike for daily riding anyway so take your time and produce something we can nominate for BOTM.

moham · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2009, 01:34:33 PM »

Quote from: manjisann on June 21, 2009, 10:11:09 AM

Quote
I think you need to do the engine work First and then Paint. You will be breaking loose seized bolts, soaking parts in degreaser, possibly blasting some bits. If you really want to be anal about it, tear the engine down, blast the cases, clean thoroughly, repair/replace motor bits, reassemble, then tape and paint.

My bad, I didn't explain myself very well. I'm looking at my build as two separate parts, the engine, and everything else (ie frame, wheels, etc). I meant I wanted to paint the frame part first and worry abou the engine part second. I plan on taking the engine apart, walnut blasting it to remove the old paint, repainting it and reassembling it with new seals and whatever else I find needs to be done.

Brandon

Aha. Well. Carry on, then...

manjisann · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2009, 04:09:59 PM »

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Aha. Well. Carry on, then...

As you wish

IT'S OUT IT'S OUT THE STUPID ENGINE IS OUT!!!! Took a bit of elbow grease, but it's out!!! I'll post pics later this evening. Just wanted to say IT'S OUT!!!

Brandon

Hush · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2009, 09:18:52 PM »

A good Cylon would say "by your command"!

espngo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:14:45 PM »

How did you get it out? Please show us pics of your rigged up contraption. I too am doing a rebuild and I'm stuck with pulling the engine out. Was considering leaning the bike over. Thanks.

Hush · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2009, 12:25:40 AM »

650's are a bit unique in engine removal espngo, the right side of the cradle frame actually unbolts allowing the engine to be removed from the righthand side of the frame.
This only works on 650's though, maybe we do have a slight advantage finally?

mystic_1 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2009, 05:34:56 AM »

DOHC 750's have this design too.

+1 on posting pics of yout engine hoist rig.

mystic_1

manjisann · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2009, 07:20:25 PM »

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+1 on posting pics of yout engine hoist rig.

Not the most detailed pic, I got the idea from a post in the tips and tricks section, another member made one like this. It's just a J shape basically. What you don't see is the bolt running through a rafter and the Comealong. An engine hoist would be a better option, but unfortunately I don't currently own one so I made due with what I had.

Thanks,

Brandon

MRieck · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2009, 08:15:55 PM »

I know I'm late for the show but always remember...they went in so they have to come out.

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Author Topic: 1980 650C engine removal, not going as planned, help please! (Read 2589 times)

combat77