Topic: Pods off, airbox on = instant smoooooth!!

[edbikerii]

I prefer my pods, with appropriate carb tuning, to the stock airbox.  Yes, it takes some work to re-jet properly, but once done, your bike will run just fine with pods.  I have no "issues", as many, including you, have claimed I would have.

I don't give a damn what anyone else uses on their bike.  The claims of mysterious problems with pods are caused by improper tuning.  My real-world experience is that with proper tuning, pods work very well.

If you are not comfortable with pods, that's great for you, but don't go knocking what thousands of other riders and manufacturers have done successfully with their bikes.

Make sure you go with stock exhaust, then.

BTW, your bike was not jetting properly.  As you said, "it was pretty rich".

Yes I know, where did I say it was jetted "properly"?  I said it ran OK.

The new configuration won't be "stock" as my carbs are 75F, motor is 70 K0, and pipes will be custom.  I will configure the carbs appropriately to the new configuration when I am done.

Even if the carbs were dialed in to the correct mixture, there would still be issues.  Are you suggesting that one should NOT use the stock airbox?  That seems to be your message.

mystic_1

[xenoscr]

Wow, I just wanted to add to the thread to say it works for me... I've inspired a whole two more pages of debate. 

As long as I'm here... Been running with the airbox for a few days now, still pleased. I will add that I spent a lot of time tuning the pods (K&N) and had the bike running as smoothly as I could. The plugs where a nice caramel color. I would experience odd running particularly with large gusts of side wind and the idle had to be set pretty high to prevent it from stalling out at stop lights. Never road in rain with the pods but I could see how that could be an issue. Side winds now don't bother my bike and I'm assuming that I've regained the ability to ride in the rain without sucking the rain directly into my pods.

XeNoSCR

[traveler]

Like religion and politics, the talk of pods and airbox is a topic without end.

I have both, and when I get it all back together, will try both to see what works best for MY APPLICATION.

In short, both will work......the airbox, stock air cleaner, and stock pipes will make it work if you don't have the patience and time to play with pods.

~Joe

[mystic_1]

I prefer my pods, with appropriate carb tuning, to the stock airbox.  Yes, it takes some work to re-jet properly, but once done, your bike will run just fine with pods.  I have no "issues", as many, including you, have claimed I would have.

I don't give a damn what anyone else uses on their bike.  The claims of mysterious problems with pods are caused by improper tuning.  My real-world experience is that with proper tuning, pods work very well.

If you are not comfortable with pods, that's great for you, but don't go knocking what thousands of other riders and manufacturers have done successfully with their bikes.

Unlike you, I'm not knocking anything.  Rather, I was simply illustrating a part of TwoTired's statements using my experiences and observations. 

I've been comfortable with the pods on my bike for the past 14 years, just to set straight your misconceptions.

Thanks for attacking me for sharing my personal experiences, btw!

Have a great day,
mystic_1

[scrapvalue]

I have a 1972 CB750 that is all stock and it runs great.
I also have a 1976 CB750 with pipes and pods and it runs great also.
The only real difference is that the 1976 runs way stronger.
You can run what ever you want to with the proper tuning.
If you aren't capable,(or not comfortable), re-jetting your bike, then by all means, leave it stock.
Otherwise, run what you want.

[ofreen]

 

[traveler]

Boy...your black '72 is a honey!

~Joe

[edbikerii]

So now I'm "knocking something" and "attacking you".  Oh well.  You can't please all of the poeple all of the time.  Good luck.

I prefer my pods, with appropriate carb tuning, to the stock airbox.  Yes, it takes some work to re-jet properly, but once done, your bike will run just fine with pods.  I have no "issues", as many, including you, have claimed I would have.

I don't give a damn what anyone else uses on their bike.  The claims of mysterious problems with pods are caused by improper tuning.  My real-world experience is that with proper tuning, pods work very well.

If you are not comfortable with pods, that's great for you, but don't go knocking what thousands of other riders and manufacturers have done successfully with their bikes.

Unlike you, I'm not knocking anything.  Rather, I was simply illustrating a part of TwoTired's statements using my experiences and observations. 

I've been comfortable with the pods on my bike for the past 14 years, just to set straight your misconceptions.

Thanks for attacking me for sharing my personal experiences, btw!

Have a great day,
mystic_1

[754]

Face it Ed;
 their riding styles/expectations  and tuning skills differ from ours...

 If your K3 (with header/pods) can whip a K8 F... its all good..

[kerryb]

Wow, it takes awhile to digest all that!  And...being still quite green, I haven't experimented with much jetting yet.  But I have experienced the joy of getting it to run smooth after rebuilding the carbs and getting the stock box on right.  But my question is how to mimic a stock airbox because the new frame style won't permit one to fit.  

Do you suppose it would be possible to install velocity stacks shaped like stock ones and then wrap a paper filter around the perimeter of all of them?  I'm not looking to improve performance, just keep the engine running healthy.  I would be losing the pool of dead air available for the stacks to pull from, so I'm sure there might be a performance/smoothness penalty.  I will also be running an old 4-into-one from only-God-knows-who,  so a jet change may be in order.  The basic setup is stock motor, carbs, and gearing from a '78k.

     Any suggestions would be appreciated, any opinions would be duly noted.

[mystic_1]

So now I'm "knocking something" and "attacking you".  Oh well.  You can't please all of the poeple all of the time.  Good luck.

I prefer my pods, with appropriate carb tuning, to the stock airbox.  Yes, it takes some work to re-jet properly, but once done, your bike will run just fine with pods.  I have no "issues", as many, including you, have claimed I would have.

I don't give a damn what anyone else uses on their bike.  The claims of mysterious problems with pods are caused by improper tuning.  My real-world experience is that with proper tuning, pods work very well.

If you are not comfortable with pods, that's great for you, but don't go knocking what thousands of other riders and manufacturers have done successfully with their bikes.

Unlike you, I'm not knocking anything.  Rather, I was simply illustrating a part of TwoTired's statements using my experiences and observations. 

I've been comfortable with the pods on my bike for the past 14 years, just to set straight your misconceptions.

Thanks for attacking me for sharing my personal experiences, btw!

Have a great day,
mystic_1

Ed, you said do me "but don't go knocking what thousands of other riders" and I replied that I'm not the one knocking anything, and yes, you are.

Your attacks consist of ASSUMING that because I'm choosing to switch to a stock airbox, I must be "uncomfortable with pods" or that I am unable to tune A/F mixtures.

Furthermore, you assert that I claimed that you had issues, to whit you said  "I have no "issues", as many, including you, have claimed I would have."

Show me where I said you had issues?  Again, I shared a story that illustrated a point that TT made about vacuum pressure, you seem to be trying to turn it into a flame war.

mystic_1

[mystic_1]

Wow, it takes awhile to digest all that!  And...being still quite green, I haven't experimented with much jetting yet.  But I have experienced the joy of getting it to run smooth after rebuilding the carbs and getting the stock box on right.  But my question is how to mimic a stock airbox because the new frame style won't permit one to fit.  

Do you suppose it would be possible to install velocity stacks shaped like stock ones and then wrap a paper filter around the perimeter of all of them?  I'm not looking to improve performance, just keep the engine running healthy.  I would be losing the pool of dead air available for the stacks to pull from, so I'm sure there might be a performance/smoothness penalty.  I will also be running an old 4-into-one from only-God-knows-who,  so a jet change may be in order.  The basic setup is stock motor, carbs, and gearing from a '78k.

     Any suggestions would be appreciated, any opinions would be duly noted.

As I think was mentioned earlier in this thread, you can (or could back in the day) get pods that have an internal velocity stack, that's the equivelant of what you describe.  The velocity stack helps flow, but the other issues described above still exist.

mystic_1

[Inigo Montoya]

If your K3 (with header/pods) can whip a K8 F... its all good.

Not sure how all that really means anything. Would the k3 still whip the k8 if you were on the k8? Maybe the other rider just isnt as good. Maybe the other bike was tuned right. Maybe the other rider was heavier. As any print source I find states the 78F was faster than the 69, I would guess it was 1 of the 2 reasons I listed.

But if it makes you feel better to throw out something that you really did not test in any way...

[Stogie1020]

PO of my bike (78 750K8) put UNI filters on but provided me with the original airbox which I would like to put back on.

What do I need to consider replacing within the airbox to put it back on?  Is it just a single filter or are there gaskets, etc. too?  The clamps look OK.  I don't know if the PO tuned the engine for the pods or not, he just said he felt like it "breathed better" with the UNI rather than the airbox.

Sorry for the newb post.  I am new to all this.

[edbikerii]

Listen, I'm not knocking you, or attacking you, or anyone else.  I've seen you here many times before, and I have no doubt that you are a very competent mechanic and even a fine fabricator.  I'm actually quite surprised that we seem to have ended up arguing over something so stupid, and I don't even know why.

I'm not interested in arguing with you, or anyone else, about pod filters.  Frankly, I'm pretty sick of the whole bickering that goes on around the subject, as if there were a right answer and a wrong answer.  THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER IN MANY SITUATIONS.  Sometimes it is just a cost/benefit analysis.  Sometimes it is purely subjective criteria, such as appearance.  Sometimes ease of maintenance is the primary concern.

As I've said a million times before, if you can afford to go with stock airbox and OEM exhaust, then by all means, that will be relatively trouble-free, as long as you keep everything in good running condition.  If, on the other hand, you change ANYTHING in the intake or exhaust you will have to re-jet.  Re-jetting can be a lot of work, but it is absolutely necessry if you change ANYTHING.  Sometimes it is just not cost-effective to replace a stock exhaust, for instance.  I enjoy tinkering and learning about motorcycles, so I just re-jetted for what, 20 bucks worth of parts?

Yes, I prefer pod air filters.
No, I'm not going to list (again) all the reasons why I prefer pods.
No, I don't have any problems with my pods.
Yes, I spent a lot of time getting the tuning just right.
Yes, I enjoyed spending a lot of time tinkering with my carbs and researching jetting.

Perhaps I was re-acting to this sentence of yours:

...
Even if the carbs were dialed in to the correct mixture, there would still be issues.  Are you suggesting that one should NOT use the stock airbox?  That seems to be your message.

mystic_1

Clearly, I had stated that I did not have any "issues".  It is still my belief that "issues" (with the possible exception of rain ingestion) are related to tuning.

The bottom line is, thousands (millions?) of people over the past few decades have run pod filters on their bikes, cars, boats, trucks, airplanes, helicopters, tanks, what-have-you's, without mysterious "issues".

[sangyo soichiro]

PO of my bike (78 750K8) put UNI filters on but provided me with the original airbox which I would like to put back on.

What do I need to consider replacing within the airbox to put it back on?  Is it just a single filter or are there gaskets, etc. too?  The clamps look OK.  I don't know if the PO tuned the engine for the pods or not, he just said he felt like it "breathed better" with the UNI rather than the airbox.

Sorry for the newb post.  I am new to all this.

All you'll need to do is check to see if the jets that are in it are the stock ones.  I don't know what they are for a K8, but I think my K2 has 110s for the mains.  Most of the time, people leave the slow jets alone, but I think mine are 40s (my memory may not be correct though).

Anyway, the jets have the numbers on them.  You can see them if you remove the float bowls.  If you have the stock ones, then just put the box back on.  If not, then buy the stock ones (we can tell you where to get them, they run maybe $10 to $15 for all 4).

You may have to try different size jets if your exhaust is not stock (usually a little larger, and jet sizes go up in increments of 2.5).

Hope that helps.

[mystic_1]

Listen, I'm not knocking you, or attacking you, or anyone else.  I've seen you here many times before, and I have no doubt that you are a very competent mechanic and even a fine fabricator.  I'm actually quite surprised that we seem to have ended up arguing over something so stupid, and I don't even know why.

I'm not interested in arguing with you, or anyone else, about pod filters.  Frankly, I'm pretty sick of the whole bickering that goes on around the subject, as if there were a right answer and a wrong answer.  THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER IN MANY SITUATIONS.  Sometimes it is just a cost/benefit analysis.  Sometimes it is purely subjective criteria, such as appearance.  Sometimes ease of maintenance is the primary concern.

As I've said a million times before, if you can afford to go with stock airbox and OEM exhaust, then by all means, that will be relatively trouble-free, as long as you keep everything in good running condition.  If, on the other hand, you change ANYTHING in the intake or exhaust you will have to re-jet.  Re-jetting can be a lot of work, but it is absolutely necessry if you change ANYTHING.  Sometimes it is just not cost-effective to replace a stock exhaust, for instance.  I enjoy tinkering and learning about motorcycles, so I just re-jetted for what, 20 bucks worth of parts?

Yes, I prefer pod air filters.
No, I'm not going to list (again) all the reasons why I prefer pods.
No, I don't have any problems with my pods.
Yes, I spent a lot of time getting the tuning just right.
Yes, I enjoyed spending a lot of time tinkering with my carbs and researching jetting.

Perhaps I was re-acting to this sentence of yours:

...
Even if the carbs were dialed in to the correct mixture, there would still be issues.  Are you suggesting that one should NOT use the stock airbox?  That seems to be your message.

mystic_1

Clearly, I had stated that I did not have any "issues".  It is still my belief that "issues" (with the possible exception of rain ingestion) are related to tuning.

The bottom line is, thousands (millions?) of people over the past few decades have run pod filters on their bikes, cars, boats, trucks, airplanes, helicopters, tanks, what-have-you's, without mysterious "issues".

Well, rain ingestion is a pretty big issue imho and one of the motivating factors for my going back to the airbox

I was not, btw, presenting any opinion on the efficacy of pods, I was simply pointing out that TT's statement to the effect that in a closed tract with one end under vacuum and the other open to atmosphere, measured vacuum levels will vary according to the location that the measurement was taken at.  Hence, by lengthening my intake tract, I altered the behavior of the jets.  That was my only point

cheers
mystic_1

[Stogie1020]

PO of my bike (78 750K8) put UNI filters on but provided me with the original airbox which I would like to put back on.

What do I need to consider replacing within the airbox to put it back on?  Is it just a single filter or are there gaskets, etc. too?  The clamps look OK.  I don't know if the PO tuned the engine for the pods or not, he just said he felt like it "breathed better" with the UNI rather than the airbox.

Sorry for the newb post.  I am new to all this.

All you'll need to do is check to see if the jets that are in it are the stock ones.  I don't know what they are for a K8, but I think my K2 has 110s for the mains.  Most of the time, people leave the slow jets alone, but I think mine are 40s (my memory may not be correct though).

Anyway, the jets have the numbers on them.  You can see them if you remove the float bowls.  If you have the stock ones, then just put the box back on.  If not, then buy the stock ones (we can tell you where to get them, they run maybe $10 to $15 for all 4).

You may have to try different size jets if your exhaust is not stock (usually a little larger, and jet sizes go up in increments of 2.5).

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the info!  I will take a look this weekend.  I have zero confidence with this stuff (just never really worked on engines before) but will give it a shot. 

If I put the stock box on and the wrong jets are in, what will the indication be in terms of how the engine runs/feels?

[ofreen]

(snip)

If, on the other hand, you change ANYTHING in the intake or exhaust you will have to re-jet.

(snip)

This is not quite the case.  I have a Jardine 4-into-1 exhaust on my 750F (they are somewhat less restrictive than the stock exhaust) along with a K&N filter in the stock airbox.  No jetting changes were necessary.  No other machine I've installed a K&N filter into a stock air box has ever required jetting changes.  There have been many, since I like the K&N filters.  Not interested in getting into a peeing contest, just sharing my experience for those starting out.

[sangyo soichiro]

PO of my bike (78 750K8) put UNI filters on but provided me with the original airbox which I would like to put back on.

What do I need to consider replacing within the airbox to put it back on?  Is it just a single filter or are there gaskets, etc. too?  The clamps look OK.  I don't know if the PO tuned the engine for the pods or not, he just said he felt like it "breathed better" with the UNI rather than the airbox.

Sorry for the newb post.  I am new to all this.

All you'll need to do is check to see if the jets that are in it are the stock ones.  I don't know what they are for a K8, but I think my K2 has 110s for the mains.  Most of the time, people leave the slow jets alone, but I think mine are 40s (my memory may not be correct though).

Anyway, the jets have the numbers on them.  You can see them if you remove the float bowls.  If you have the stock ones, then just put the box back on.  If not, then buy the stock ones (we can tell you where to get them, they run maybe $10 to $15 for all 4).

You may have to try different size jets if your exhaust is not stock (usually a little larger, and jet sizes go up in increments of 2.5).

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the info!  I will take a look this weekend.  I have zero confidence with this stuff (just never really worked on engines before) but will give it a shot. 

If I put the stock box on and the wrong jets are in, what will the indication be in terms of how the engine runs/feels?

I suppose it will act sluggish at certain RPMs.  Then the trick is figuring out if you're too rich or too lean (and there's a wealth of info about that here...).  But I think if you have the stock size jets in, you should be pretty close.  Of course, if you take the carbs off, you might as well give them a good cleaning.   

[Stogie1020]

I am dangerous with tools.  As in, more likely than not to break things and lose skin...

[TwoTired]

I am dangerous with tools.  As in, more likely than not to break things and lose skin...

Perhaps you are placing too much reliance on the force?  Are your thoughts betraying you?


 

[mystic_1]

You'll want to do some "plug chops" to see where your mixture is, too rich or too lean.

Plug chops basically consist of running the bike at a given gear/rpm/throttle range for a bit, then "chopping" the ignition by hitting the kill switch while you're driving.  Don't let off the throttle when hitting the switch.  Coast to a stop, remove one or more spark plugs, and look at the color of the ceramic insulator at the tip.  The insulator is the "collar" that surrounds the center electrode.  Tan is what you want.  Black = too rich.  White = too lean.

Run a search from the main forum index for more info on plug chops.  Also you'll find pics that other have posted of their plugs.

mystic_1

[Stogie1020]

Awesome.  Thanks guys!

[mystic_1]

I am dangerous with tools.  As in, more likely than not to break things and lose skin...

Perhaps you are placing too much reliance on the force?  Are your thoughts betraying you?


 

I find you lack of faith disturbing.


mystic_1