Author Topic: 1977 CB550 Cafe  (Read 11639 times)

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dRoc

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1977 CB550 Cafe
« on: June 25, 2009, 07:59:26 AM »
Well, figured I'd post some pics of my progress so far. I picked up this bike for $100 in non-running condition. It wouldn't turn over and was home to a few dozen spider nests :)



I'm going to turn this into a cafe racer. But first I needed to figured out what was wrong with the engine, so I took a look inside. As I started to remove the cylinder, I realized something was very very wrong:



Hmm, definitely some problems here:



Three of the four pistons were completely destroyed!:



One of them has a valve stuck in it. The fourth piston was rusted to its cylinder. Luckily, I was able to find replacement pistons and a new cylinder on eBay. While waiting on the parts, I began the process of stripping the bike down to clean, de-rust, and paint each of the individual components.

Here's the frame all ready for some TLC:



After getting tired of sanding, I went with the electrolysis route...worked like a charm:



Next time, I'll make things easier on myself and take everything to get media blasted. Live and learn, I suppose.

More pics will follow within the next few days. The tank has been cleaned, de-rusted, had some dents filled, primed, and is ready for paint. The frame has been painted black and is ready for some clear coat. I have a Marshall Deeptone on order, and I'm hoping to get some rearsets sorted out soon (although I'm worried about interference with the kickstarter). I still need to order new spokes, new tires, clubman bars, metric speedo, signals, tail light, etc, etc. I also plan on making a seat out of fibreglass using the method described on this site: http://matteoforgione.com/matteo/caferacer/cafe.html

Lots of work, but lots of fun. This is my first project of this size. Previously, I tore apart a 50cc Honda scooter to overbore up to 60cc. Learned lots, and that gave me the confidence to dive into this project.

Just to clarify, if I have specific technical questions, I should put them in the SOHC Bikes section (after searching :)), right?


Offline KB02

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 11:00:55 AM »
Wow. That piston with the valve stuck in it should be kept and displayed as art.

kind of reminds me of my engine's rust-to-running story (final chapters still to be written).

I wil be watching this thread.
1978 CB750K Project
2000 Ducati ST2
...and a pedal bike

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Offline Sporkfly

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 11:21:46 AM »
So she was running a little hot, right?

 :D I wish you luck, it should be quite a project.
1977 CB550K
1979 GL1000 - Current project, winter '09-'10
1979 CX500
1976 Suzuki GT500 Titan

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 02:14:32 PM »
Wow. That piston with the valve stuck in it should be kept and displayed as art.

Funny, I thought exactly the same thing after I removed it!

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 02:43:06 PM »
So she was running a little hot, right?

 :D I wish you luck, it should be quite a project.

Thanks very much. Am I correct in thinking that pre-ignition is the culprit here, either from way too lean a mixture or too hot of a spark plug? What else could cause that kind of damage to the pistons?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2009, 03:05:49 PM »
The bike looks like it had been starved of maintenance/money for quite some time.  (Strike one)

The 77 and 78 Cb550K models had lean burn carbs.  (Ball one)

The replacement exhaust is far more open, needs the carb richened.  I bet that wasn't done.   (Strike two)

The pilot jets are very small and clog easily.  Rusty tank innards will clog them.  But, the bike may still run on choke (or if the RPM is kept higher)  The loss of pilot circuit flow/contribution makes the carbs even leaner.
An old air filter can make the bike run poorly, removing it can make it work again, but this make the mixture even leaner.  (Pick either of these and you have strike three.)

If you mix the gas with diesel, kerosene, or jet fuel, you can get detonation/holed pistons.

In short, neglect/stupidity ruined that bike. droc to the rescue!

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2009, 12:51:19 PM »
Thanks for the post-mortem! I'll be dealing with the carbs next week, so I'll have a chance to see what's what at that time, and then I'll post my findings.

Thanks again for the input :)

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2009, 09:20:11 AM »
Haven't updated in quite a while, but the project is going well and I'm hoping to finish it by month's end. Lots and lots of pics to follow. But for now, a question. I removed this part from the left side of the crank case during disassembly of my 1977 CB550K earlier this summer:



And here it is viewed upside down:



I unfortunately did not take a picture of this part of the disassembly, but I believe I had to remove this part in order to access the clutch lifter rod. Photo from service manual:



This part was not mentioned in the manual, nor can I find it on any online parts microfiche. So on to my questions:

1) What is this part? :)
2) Where can I get it?

I looked in my full gasket set and there is nothing similar in it. I should also add that it appears that it was sealed into place with RTV or something similar. It was quite difficult to remove, hence the mangling :)

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much!


Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2009, 03:58:38 PM »
Your picture and manual depicts a CB500 where the clutch lifter rod exits the case on the left.
The 550 clutch actuator is on the right.
On the 550 there is just block off seal at that place. 

I've never replaced that seal.  But, I would try a Honda outlet for a source.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2009, 02:00:20 PM »
Thanks for the response, TwoTired. Much appreciated!

Offline Kemp

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2009, 07:10:49 PM »
DROC you better check the crank before reassembly to make sure it's true, that rods aren't bent and that the mains are okay. I've only seen engines that exploded with major damage to the cam/valves/rods/crank/pistons.

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 11:00:34 AM »
DROC you better check the crank before reassembly to make sure it's true, that rods aren't bent and that the mains are okay. I've only seen engines that exploded with major damage to the cam/valves/rods/crank/pistons.

Thanks for the suggestion, Kemp. Everything appears to be okay. When I ordered the replacement pistons, the auction also included a cylinder and complete cylinder head, including a camshaft. To be safe, I measured everything with micrometers as described in the shop manual, and everything was within the specifications. Even the crankshaft and connecting rods (and their respective bearings) passed inspection. That said, I'll keep my fingers crossed until I hear it purring :)

Thanks again for the info. I'll try to post a ton of pics over the weekend, as the engine is back together and I'm reassembling the bike over the next few days.

Derek

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2009, 11:02:37 AM »
I've never replaced that seal.  But, I would try a Honda outlet for a source.

Well, no luck ordering the seal from the local Honda dealer, as it's not available. But they recommended a nearby machine shop called Cycle Improvements. $50 and just one day later, I had a brand new seal :)

Jaredl2055

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2009, 01:23:56 PM »
What size pistons will you be putting in her

Offline CaféElite

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2009, 01:56:16 PM »
Have you made the seat yet? Pics?

Also curious about your location.. Gotta keep an eye on my 550 peeps  ;D
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dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2009, 03:07:01 PM »
What size pistons will you be putting in her

I'm using stock pistons. The ones I bought off of eBay measured within spec, so I just honed the cylinders and got a new set of rings for them.

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2009, 03:10:12 PM »
Have you made the seat yet? Pics?

Also curious about your location.. Gotta keep an eye on my 550 peeps  ;D

No, not yet...figured I'd finish the engine and everything else before doing the fiberglass work, although I do have the plaster mold ready for the fiberglass, so I'm almost done. I'll post those pics later this weekend along with the rest of them.

And I'm in Kitchener, Ontario...about an hour southwest of Toronto. Gonna be too cold to ride in about a month :)

Offline noahspop

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2009, 03:20:36 PM »
I'll be watching to see the out come.
Loving the pics.
Did you mention the paint scheme yet?
If you did, sorry I missed it. I was awstruck by the damage of the pistions.

Will you need to check your bottom end to make sure no debris from the blown valves got in there. Since it looks like the pistions no longer had a seal.

I would of hated to have been the person riding the bike when the valves blew, Oh wait, how soon I forget. It just happened to me a few months ago.

I wish you the best.

Offline TE 450 Pilot

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2009, 04:01:15 PM »
When you mentioned Cycle Improvements i realized you live close to me. Perhaps a 77 550F ride is in order next spring.

Randy
Randy

Cambridge Ontario

1975 Honda 550F
1976 Honda 550F
2007 Husqvarna TE 450
2008 Husqvarna TE 250

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2009, 01:15:07 AM »
Okay, here's the first wave of what I hope will be a lot of pics this weekend :)

Frame after rust inhibiting primer and black paint. This pic is after the first coat. I can't find a pic of it after the second coat, but it turned out like the swingarm in the next pic.





Miscellaneous parts being primed:



Gas tank after paint. Since my tank was missing the metal "Honda" tags, I cut off the mounting plate and then used bondo to fill in the indentation:



Masked off with tape and paper towels, white stripe added:



Frame with tank...kinda looks like a bike again:



Pics of engine priming and painting. I used high heat engine primer and Duplicolor engine enamel (DE 1615 Aluminum). I used flat black on the cylinder and cylinder head. Prior to that, I had all the engine parts soda blasted. I had never heard of soda blasting before, but it worked very very well. For my next project, I'm just gonna soda blast everything that needs stripping. It's such a time saver.









On to the seat while I waited for engine parts. I wanted to know how to work with fiberglass, so I decided to try making my own seat. I followed the process described on this site: http://matteoforgione.com/matteo/caferacer/cafe.html. I laminated a bunch of styrofoam sheets together, took a lot of measurements, and cut the rough shape using a band saw. To get the contours I wanted, I first made some rough cuts with a fine tooth knife and then used a cheese grater type of hand plane to shape the plug.







After some latex paint, it was ready for filling in the many dimples in the foam. Bondo was a pain to work with due to the quick curing time (even when using less hardener)...



...so my dad suggested trying drywall compound. I was skeptical, but it worked like a charm!



It's cheap and very easy to work with since it takes overnight to dry. I then painted it black to help see any imperfections, and used spot filler where needed.



Once the plug was 100% finished I made a plaster mold of it (pic to follow when I find my other memory card), and it's now ready for fiberglass. Overall, I wouldn't recommend this route to try to save money, because it's very time consuming work and can get expensive. But it's pretty satisfying building something from scratch :)

Here's the engine during the rebuild. You wouldn't believe all the bits of cylinder I found inside the case. And the transmission seemed to have a shredded plastic film tangled inside of it. Wish I had some pics to post. What a mess!





Remember that no-longer-available seal I hacked up during disassembly? Well, here it is side-by-side with the one Cycle Improvements made for me. Absolutely perfect fit. I sealed it in with a gasket sealer.




That's it for now. I'll have more pics later this weekend.

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2009, 08:02:56 AM »
When you mentioned Cycle Improvements i realized you live close to me. Perhaps a 77 550F ride is in order next spring.

Randy

Definitely! Then you can tell me if my bike is running like it should, since I have no point of reference :)

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2009, 08:20:34 AM »
Did you mention the paint scheme yet?

No I hadn't, but there's a pic of the tank up now (see above). I'll be painting the seat cowl to match the tank, and I'm going to make my own side covers that will also be blue. I keep flip-flopping on the paint scheme, but I think I'll stick with this and then do something different with my '73 cb500 over the winter.

Will you need to check your bottom end to make sure no debris from the blown valves got in there. Since it looks like the pistions no longer had a seal.

Done and done :) I tore the whole engine apart for that very reason. Dozens upon dozens of chunks of piston inside, plus a ton of something that looked like mangled saran wrap. If bikes could talk...

Offline KB02

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2009, 08:44:21 AM »
I'm having issues building the seat that I want. I found one on ebay that will work for abut $135. I'm about $90 into my failing seat so far. How much are you into that seat for so far? (If you don't mind me asking...)
1978 CB750K Project
2000 Ducati ST2
...and a pedal bike

Join the AMA today!!

My project thread Part I: K8 Project "Parts Bike"
My project thread Part II: Finishing (yeah, right) touches on Project "Parts Bike"

Offline Flying J

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2009, 10:11:58 AM »
I'm having issues building the seat that I want. I found one on ebay that will work for abut $135. I'm about $90 into my failing seat so far. How much are you into that seat for so far? (If you don't mind me asking...)
and are you interested in recupeing some of that cost buy building 2 seats from you mold and selling me one at a decent price?

dRoc

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Re: 1977 CB550 Cafe
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2009, 07:11:40 PM »
I'm having issues building the seat that I want. I found one on ebay that will work for abut $135. I'm about $90 into my failing seat so far. How much are you into that seat for so far? (If you don't mind me asking...)

Good question. I hadn't really thought about it till now. I'd estimate just under $200, because I made a few mistakes along the way :)

What issues are you having? Are you doing the same process as me, or are you working with metal?