Topic: 1977 CB550 Cafe

[dRoc]

I'm having issues building the seat that I want. I found one on ebay that will work for abut $135. I'm about $90 into my failing seat so far. How much are you into that seat for so far? (If you don't mind me asking...)

and are you interested in recupeing some of that cost buy building 2 seats from you mold and selling me one at a decent price?

Thanks for the offer! I'd be glad to, but let me make sure it turns out well before we get that far.

I took a lot of measurements, but I won't know how it fits/looks until I actually finish it. But if it turns out, then I'd be glad to help you out.

[masonryman]

Nice looking work to this point, I would like to see what you came up with on the plaster mold, what material (plaster) did you use?

have you thought about trying to compress the fiberglass when you lay it?
This normally done with a male female mold, but I had been thinking of trying it with plastic bag full of sand or water for the male side.

Mark

[KB02]

I'm having issues building the seat that I want. I found one on ebay that will work for abut $135. I'm about $90 into my failing seat so far. How much are you into that seat for so far? (If you don't mind me asking...)

Good question. I hadn't really thought about it till now. I'd estimate just under $200, because I made a few mistakes along the way

What issues are you having? Are you doing the same process as me, or are you working with metal?

Well, I made the mold out of foam and then tried to lay the glass over the mold. It didn't turn out too well on the back side.

[dRoc]

I'm having issues building the seat that I want. I found one on ebay that will work for abut $135. I'm about $90 into my failing seat so far. How much are you into that seat for so far? (If you don't mind me asking...)

Good question. I hadn't really thought about it till now. I'd estimate just under $200, because I made a few mistakes along the way

What issues are you having? Are you doing the same process as me, or are you working with metal?

Well, I made the mold out of foam and then tried to lay the glass over the mold. It didn't turn out too well on the back side.

Do you mean the underside of the seat, as in the part that would be in direct contact with the foam? Did you cover the foam with anything before laying the fiberglass? If not, there's a good chance the resin would eat the foam. That, or you'd have a hell of a time removing the fiberglass if you hadn't prepped the surface with a mold release wax or something. I'm by no means an expert on this...I'm just going on what I've read. Here's a good link that details how to lay fiberglass directly on top of something:

http://www.jeffreyphipps.com/seat_pans.htm

In the case of the example, he was making a fiberglass seat pan to cover with padding and leather, but the process should be the same since you're laying fiberglass directly over the shape you want.

I went with the extra step of making a mold so that I could lay a gel coat down before fiberglassing so that I get a nice smooth exterior finish, as opposed to the textured finish of the fiberglass. I'll be doing the fiberglass work within the next week or two, so I'll make sure I take some pics.

[noahspop]

Did you mention the paint scheme yet?

No I hadn't, but there's a pic of the tank up now (see above). I'll be painting the seat cowl to match the tank, and I'm going to make my own side covers that will also be blue. I keep flip-flopping on the paint scheme, but I think I'll stick with this and then do something different with my '73 cb500 over the winter.

Will you need to check your bottom end to make sure no debris from the blown valves got in there. Since it looks like the pistions no longer had a seal.

Done and done I tore the whole engine apart for that very reason. Dozens upon dozens of chunks of piston inside, plus a ton of something that looked like mangled saran wrap. If bikes could talk...

I think your's would cry, and then say thank you.

You seem to be doing a very thorough job. keep up the good work.

[dRoc]

Nice looking work to this point, I would like to see what you came up with on the plaster mold, what material (plaster) did you use?

have you thought about trying to compress the fiberglass when you lay it?
This normally done with a male female mold, but I had been thinking of trying it with plastic bag full of sand or water for the male side.

Thanks! I'll get a pic of the mold for you tonight or tomorrow. I used regular Plaster of Paris, as it's dirt cheap and makes a perfect mold, assuming you get the consistency right before pouring it (otherwise it'll harden up before you can do anything with it).

As for compressing the fiberglass, I hadn't thought about that...I'll have to read up on it. I was planning on just using the metal roller to roll out all the air pockets, as that's the process that my book described.

[masonryman]

I have made a few things out of glass, some times it is hard to get it to stay down on sharp bends.

Mark

[dRoc]

Well, after a winter of neglect due to other things taking up my time, I'm back on track with this rebuild. The engine is in the frame, and both wheels were overhauled and re-installed, along with the rebuilt brake caliper, fender, new chain, etc. I'll get some pics up after tonight's session.

But for now, a quick carb question, since I disassembled them so long ago that I am not 100% certain about this. I've searched and searched the forum, with no luck, so here goes:

Is the needle jet inserted from below (i.e. before inserting the main jet holder and main jet) or above (i.e. from inside the carb bore)? Although I could be mistaken, I seem to recall pressing them out in a downwards motion (i.e. down towards the float bowl), but when I tried reassembling them, they wouldn't go in far enough to accommodate the main jet holder, so I inserted them from the top instead, allowing the main jet holder to fully screw in.

Just to be clear, I am referring to part #3 in this diagram: http://servicehondapsn.com/fiche_image_popup.asp?fveh=2946&section=123239&year=1977&make=HONDA&category=MOTORCYCLES&dc=5924&name=CARBURETOR+COMPONENTS+77.

Everything seems to be fine, and I think I've rebuilt them properly, but I wanted to double check because it's been bugging me that I remember removing them by pressing towards the bottom. It's also bugging me that the part is shown below the carb body in the linked diagram.

Thanks very much!

[TwoTired]

If there is ANY risk they may come loose and be sucked into the engine, I'd say they must be inserted from the float bowl end.

[fastbroshi]

Is the needle jet inserted from below (i.e. before inserting the main jet holder and main jet) or above (i.e. from inside the carb bore)?

It's inserted as an assembly from the top with the throttle valve (#12). 

[dRoc]

Guys, thanks very much for your responses. In that case, everything is assembled properly

I'll post some updated pics of my progress later this weekend.

[dRoc]

Is the needle jet inserted from below (i.e. before inserting the main jet holder and main jet) or above (i.e. from inside the carb bore)? Although I could be mistaken, I seem to recall pressing them out in a downwards motion (i.e. down towards the float bowl), but when I tried reassembling them, they wouldn't go in far enough to accommodate the main jet holder, so I inserted them from the top instead, allowing the main jet holder to fully screw in.

Just to be clear, I am referring to part #3 in this diagram: http://servicehondapsn.com/fiche_image_popup.asp?fveh=2946&section=123239&year=1977&make=HONDA&category=MOTORCYCLES&dc=5924&name=CARBURETOR+COMPONENTS+77.

Turns out the needle jet is inserted from the bottom. If you look at the second pic on pg177 of the Honda manual (i.e. the CB550K3 supplement), you can see some threads exposed on the main jet holder. I had to zoom in to verify this, but it's definitely the case. A quick check of another 46A carb at the local salvage yard confirmed this. So I reassembled with the the needle jet going in from the bottom. Figured I'd post in case it helps anyone else who tore the carbs apart and then didn't touch them for months

[dRoc]

Here is a recent pic of the bike. I've since added all the handlebar controls and gauges, but you get the point



I finally got it running last weekend, although I soon discovered that #4 was not firing. The #4 header was not even the slightest bit warm. Turns out that the slow jet went for a swim in the bowl. I've since concluded that the Keystar carb kits I bought are not of the highest quality, as the slow jet doesn't seem to stay pressed in as well as the stock Honda jets. Although the diameter of the jets is the same, the tapers towards the top of the jet don't go as far up as they do on the Honda jet, which is what likely causes the Keystar jet to not fit as well (i.e. it gets narrower sooner as you move from bottom to top). Given what happened, I want to go back to Honda jets for a better fit. However...

...the PO was running 42 jets instead of the stock 38. The exhaust that came with the bike was toast, so I bought a Mac 4 into 1, which Mac claims requires no re-jetting. Although I was skeptical about that claim, my original intention was to put the jetting back to stock and tweak from there. Hence the Keystar kits with 38 slow jets. (FYI, I'm running the stock airbox with a freshly cleaned and re-oiled UNI NU-4055 filter, and I have the stock 46A carbs for the '77 550K3).

Now that I want to switch back to Honda jets (and since the press-in jets are not available from Honda), here is where I stand:


I can either:

A) Try to find some 38 slow jets at the salvage yard, although my experience there tells me they won't sell the jets separately (i.e. $$$)

B) Try my luck using the 42 jets that I originally removed from the carbs, with the hopes that my Mac and Uni combo requires richer jetting.


Any thoughts?

P.S. Off topic, but here is a neat pic I took looking into a carb from the top during my carb overhaul. I messed with the camera settings and produced what reminds me of an image from the Hubble

[TwoTired]

Use the #42's.

[traveler]

+1....I agree.....use genuine HONDA 42 pilot jets.

~Joe

[dRoc]

Thanks guys. Much appreciated.

[FunJimmy]

Nice work.
The bike coming along.

Cheers
FJ