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Offline voxonda

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New engine build
« on: June 28, 2009, 10:56:28 AM »
Finally start to build the 850 engine. Made arrangements to lighten the crank, new primary's with extra guide and more tension. Stronger camchain with M3 tensioner.
Can anyone tell me the gear ratio's used in the CR kit close-gearbox? Will not go that far but plans are to change 1st gear from 2.500:1 into 1.954:1

Thanks.

Rob
 
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2009, 02:25:50 PM »
Took the studs out, four of them were more or less stuck but with some guided force they too came out. After the cleaning and VHT painting the HD studs go in. Hopefully can find some HD studs for the mains while I am at it.
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2009, 12:00:46 PM »
No one about the gear ratio's? Ah well, let's move on there is a lot to be done.
Finished the camcover with the studs to keep things in place.


Have to blast it and spray some paint on it.
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Offline DollarBill

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2009, 12:11:09 PM »
For us that don't know can you explain the studs going all the way through the valve cover?  It looks cool anyway...
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2009, 12:16:12 PM »
Yeah, they go through the cover and stop just above the camholders. The bolts help to keep the holders in place. Just for security reasons.

Rob.
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Offline mec

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2009, 01:36:27 PM »
hi,
can you make a picture of the M3 cc tensioner, please?

mec
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 10:52:50 PM »
Quote from: voxonda on June 28, 2009, 02:25:50 PM
Took the studs out, four of them were more or less stuck but with some guided force they too came out. After the cleaning and VHT painting the HD studs go in. Hopefully can find some HD studs for the mains while I am at it.

Dynoman but he is temporarily out for maybe 1-2 months. If you find another source please let us know.
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 03:57:30 AM »
Quote from: Jerry Rxman Griffin on July 02, 2009, 10:52:50 PM
Quote from: voxonda on June 28, 2009, 02:25:50 PM
Took the studs out, four of them were more or less stuck but with some guided force they too came out. After the cleaning and VHT painting the HD studs go in. Hopefully can find some HD studs for the mains while I am at it.

Dynoman but he is temporarily out for maybe 1-2 months. If you find another source please let us know.

I am on to something, need to have the seizes of the studs. If anyone can give these, can make a leap forward.

Rob
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 12:17:47 AM »
Quote from: mec on July 01, 2009, 01:36:27 PM
hi,
can you make a picture of the M3 cc tensioner, please?

mec

Hey mec,

I will as soon as I received it.

Rob
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Offline mrosso

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 07:15:53 AM »
Quote from: voxonda on July 01, 2009, 12:00:46 PM
No one about the gear ratio's? Ah well, let's move on there is a lot to be done.
Finished the camcover with the studs to keep things in place.


Have to blast it and spray some paint on it.
It's looking great. This will be a sweet, raceworthy ride when finished.

Does anyone have the measurements or a template for where the bolt holes should be on a reinforced valve cover?
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2009, 07:36:38 AM »
Hey mrosso,

Hope everything goes to plan? What I did is the following, took a head with holders and placed it under a drill and centered it, then clamped it and mounted the cover. Take a centredrill and drill in the cover, do that four times for each holder. Remove the cover and head and drill the cover to the desired diametre. Hope it is a bid clear, if any questions you know where to find me.
Because I offer this thru voxonda.com, I have made a template for the mill.

Cheers, rob
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2009, 10:25:43 AM »
Cleaned all the threads from the cases with the appropriate taps and so want to install the HD studs. Need some advice here, use Loctite or not? Or just dip in oil and give it 8ft lbs?
Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 02:26:03 PM by voxonda »
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2009, 01:33:12 PM »
Well made up my mind, no Loctite just a little bid of never-seez on the treads.
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2009, 11:27:59 PM »
APE instructions for cylinder studs do not say to use lubricant or any compound on the threads.

1. "long threaded end must be installed in crankcase"

3. "After removal of stock studs, thoroughly clean holes with solvent and blow out".

4. "Using 2 wrenches, lock up two 8mm X 1.25 nuts on the noted (wasn't noted) location., bottoming out, then using a torque wrench torque to 8 ft, pounds maximum"

5. "Install head and following manufacturers torque pattern, torque head nuts to 20-22 ft pounds."
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2009, 02:46:07 AM »
Thanks Jerry,

I have read that but, after working 30 odd years in construction of machines, I think a small mount of never-seez will not harm but only does good whenever removing.

cheers, Rob
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Offline nippon

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2009, 06:52:33 AM »
Yes, you need a cylinder head and a mill for the first valve cover.
see at: http://www.classiccyclecity.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=44&page=1

nippon
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Offline mrosso

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2009, 05:37:52 PM »
Quote from: voxonda on July 01, 2009, 12:16:12 PM
Yeah, they go through the cover and stop just above the camholders. The bolts help to keep the holders in place. Just for security reasons.

Rob.

Rob, do the studs actually make contact with the cam towers or do they just hover above them a few milimeters?
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2009, 12:36:29 AM »
They clear the towers about 1.5 to 2 millimetre, rest is done by the bolt. What I have done afterwards is mill the camholders 'clean' about .5 mm. So they are all the same height.

Rob
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Offline mrosso

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2009, 09:57:38 PM »
Quote from: voxonda on July 11, 2009, 12:36:29 AM
They clear the towers about 1.5 to 2 millimetre, rest is done by the bolt. What I have done afterwards is mill the camholders 'clean' about .5 mm. So they are all the same height.

Rob
Thanks, Rob.
Does anybody screw the bolts all the way down until they make contact with the top of the cam towers? Is there risks/benefits to doing that? What about noise?
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2009, 10:59:27 PM »
Think I made myself not clear, the studs do not make contact, but the bolts do! If they weren't they would do nothing to 'protect' the threads. Sorry if I was not clear.

Regards, Rob
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Offline MCRider

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2009, 02:51:26 PM »
Quote from: voxonda on July 12, 2009, 10:59:27 PM
Think I made myself not clear, the studs do not make contact, but the bolts do! If they weren't they would do nothing to 'protect' the threads. Sorry if I was not clear.

Regards, Rob
yes I think something was lost in the translation mrosso. "Stud" in Rob's case is the "boss" in the camcover. the boss does not touch the cam tower. However the bolts inside the boss do, there are corresponding flat spots on the cam towers where the bolts will touch and actually press the cam tower into the head making a very sturdy cam platform.

I have a reinforced rocker box made by a machinist in Washington State, Les Barker. He said to run those bolts down into the cam towers to about 8 ft/lbs then lock in place with the lock nut. My bolts are smaller diameter than yours, Rob. Yours is overall more sturdy than mine, but I think anything is significant improvement over stock.

I am also up for suggestions on the torque used, 8ft/lbs sounds high.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 03:00:55 PM by MCRider »
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2009, 11:24:00 PM »
Thanks MC, you're as great help. My 'technical' english has some room for improvement. Think running the bolts into the camtowers makes not much sence since the bolts are compression loaded.

Regards,

Rob
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2009, 01:55:26 AM »
Well, found my own solution for the main-studs. Wait and see.

Cheers, rob
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Offline voxonda

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2009, 10:58:57 AM »
While waiting for my M3 camchain guide, setting up the extra chainguide for the primary's against the uppercase. In doing so hoping to give the chains and tensioner a 'happier' life.
Anyone ever did something like that?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 11:56:30 AM by voxonda »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: New engine build
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2009, 11:05:44 AM »
Quote from: voxonda on July 18, 2009, 10:58:57 AM
Waiting for my M3 camchain guide so am setting up the extra chainguide for the primary's against the uppercase. In doing so hoping to give the chains and tensioner a 'happier' life.
Anyone ever did something like that?
Sounds cool! A stock tensioner mounted in the top case? Let us see!
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