Author Topic: 78 CB750 Charging Issue  (Read 10575 times)

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kmhixson

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78 CB750 Charging Issue
« on: June 29, 2009, 06:02:29 AM »
Hey Guys,

I bought a 78 CB750 about 5 months ago. It has been in the shop several times already (Carb Rebuild/Points-Replaced). It recently went into the shop about 1 month ago to essentially a backyard mechanic because it would not charge the battery. Long story short after we went to and from Auto-Zone 3X to replace the "bad" batteries he finally "checked" the rectifier and he said it was good. So, I took a ride yesterday and everything was going great with the bike, then all of a sudden (oops) the turn signals don't work.  The bike was dead 15 minutes later and I barely made it home.

The mechanic told me if I had anymore issues to buy/replace the rectifier/regulator, but I am not convinced that is the issue. Does anyone have an idea of what could be the issue? Alternator maybe?

I will do the work myself, but I am not a motorhead at all and really looking for a solid motorcycle mechanic in the Indianapolis area. If anyone knows one, please let me know.

-Hix


Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 06:22:57 AM »
Charge your battery and then hook it up. Start the bike and hook up a multimeter. rev the bike over 2K rpm and see what the voltage reads. Over 2K it should be generally at least 13.5 - 14.5 volts. If it is not at least there, I would start by cleaning all the connections from the alternator to the reg/rect and battery.

kmhixson

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 07:50:45 AM »
vinmans,

I have already charged the battery several times, cleaned off all the connections (battery, rectifier, etc.), and I have also put a Multimeter to the battery while idle and with the throttle engaged. It starts around 13Vs, but then slowly goes down. When I do rev the engine (6k RPMs) the voltage does increase (+ .3V) from idle, but not much. Do you have any other ideas?

-Kevin

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 08:12:22 AM »
It's beginning to sound like the alternator is not charging much, or there may be too much load on the bike.

The "too much load" scenario: another SOHC4-er here recently discovered his PO had installed a 90/100 watt headlight. No matter what you do with that, it will not charge the battery. Headlights should be 50/55 watts max. or an HID type.

Th e"alternator not charging" gets my vote, because of your description: when revving the bike, the ignition coil currents drop by about 1 amp, so the battery voltage would go up in response if the system were not charging. This rise would be just about .3v to .5v, like you're seeing.

So, look into this part: make or get a jumper to go between the BLACK and WHITE wires on the voltage regulator, with all the other wires still in place. This will jumper the regulator to HIGH CHARGE mode. Start the bike, then check the voltage at idle and around 2500 RPM. It should rise at least 1 volt or more as you rev it up, indicating charging is happening. If it does not, the connections to the field coil or the alternator itself may be bad, dirty, or cooked from some distant past episode. A less-often seen scenario: the field coil could be cooked, or open. This coil should measure about 7 ohms between the above-mentioned WHITE wire and ground (without the whie wire connected to anything: unplug from the voltage regulator first before testing).

Often, the big white connector to the engine has corroded connector blades inside, just from the years. If they get dirty enough, they also get hot, then they can cook. So, check that big connector's blades before possibly replacing any alternator parts. It's pretty rare that alternators or field coils on these bikes fail, but it occasionally does happen. A good one from a junkyard will cost around $30 (out here in CO).

Also once in a great while, the voltage regualtor, which is electro-mechanical, can get bad points inside or an open resistor on the back. I have some old ones that I have "refurbished" by cleaning the contacts, readjusting them, and alighning their performance on a variable power supply, for those days. If you decide you need a good one, I'll sell you one  as a "rebuilt", swapping your old one in the process so I can have another to rebuild. Drop me a PM if you get this far.  ;)
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 08:21:07 AM »
There are your ideas kevin. Check them connections carefully. It is very hard sometimes to see the bad spot. A connector could be melted inside and look good on the outside. Heed hondaman's advice on things.

Offline MFP

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2009, 11:04:15 AM »
Yeah--double check the large plug coming from the alternator(regulator) behind the airbox.  battery acid can really muck this up--the PO of my 76 had a shorty vent tube on the battery which vented directly on this plug--when I pulled the sheathing off, the wires were green as mint jelly replaced the plug with bullet connectors and all the bad green wiring with new--charging problem solved.  As soon as I got my "new" 78 home--checked the same plug--1 connector was melted in the housing and the rest are due for a thourough cleaning--possible replacement.
Eric
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Offline Vin750

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 07:05:58 AM »
This is an old thread but it thought it would be nice to revive it.

Great write up form Hondaman!

My issue is a little different, my bike is charging and charging well but every time I ride with the headlight on in the city (slow traffic) I drain the battery and by the time I am hope the electric starter won't even turn the engine anymore.

I have to go check the head to to see if the PO put something too strong there but judging from how inefficient it is, I doubt it.

Offline b52bombardier1

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 09:57:33 AM »
How well is "charging well"? How old is your battery?  Is your rectifier allowing too much alternating current past it's diodes thus destroying your battery?

Rick

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Offline Desert-SOHC

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2017, 10:36:57 AM »
My K8 was having the same issues and it was the connection from the alt., the 6 wire plug.  Cleaned all the connections on both sides replug with dielectric grease and put a zip tie on the hold the plug together tightly.  I now run at 13.7 volts above 3,200 rpm's.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2017, 12:10:47 PM »
North of 3500rpm you should be 14.5v...
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Offline kerryb

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2017, 01:18:58 PM »
My K8 was having charging issues which cleared up after adjusting the voltage regulator as per the steps in the Clymer manual.  Wasn't difficult at all, no problems since.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2017, 01:58:11 PM »
My K8 was having charging issues which cleared up after adjusting the voltage regulator as per the steps in the Clymer manual.  Wasn't difficult at all, no problems since.
Letting out the vintage air renders the unit useless.....its a true fact.  ;D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
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Offline Vin750

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2017, 06:10:19 AM »
How well is "charging well"? How old is your battery?  Is your rectifier allowing too much alternating current past it's diodes thus destroying your battery?

The battery is about a year and a half old. It's not the best on the market but it's an ok one.

I have to measure the charge again to tell you something precise. I have the notes in the garage but would want to repeat the test.

How do I know if my rectifier is allowing too much alternating current through?

Offline Vin750

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2017, 02:28:19 AM »
How do I know if my rectifier is allowing too much alternating current through?
By testing for AC, not DC voltage at the battery.

The best solution for diagnosing your issues is to perform a methodical test of all the components. Whomever gave you the advice to "replace your...." should not be heeded. Often the issues are either a bad battery, poor connections, or damaged wiring. The stock components on these bikes seldom fail unless molested or abused.

You can use this simple flowchart and a multimeter to accurately check all your systems:
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

You can also use this to test the diodes in your rectifier if you detect AC voltage leaks:
http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/diode-testing-guide.pdf


Thanks Calj737 I am going to go through this soon.

My bike doesn't have a combined rectifier regulator though. Do you think that flow process will still work for me?

I have tested AC to the battery and with the bike running or not I always get 26 volts at the battery. Including ignition off at the key.

I have also taken some measurements to see what people can tell about what's normal and not.

Ignition key off: 12.60
Ignition key on kill switch off: 12.26
Ignition key on kill switch on: 12.12
Engine idling at 1000 RPM: 12.34
At 2000 RPM: 13.28

Anything above this RPM makes the voltage vary slightly above 13 volts but I didn't see it go above 13.50.

Thoughts?




Offline PeWe

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2017, 03:35:43 AM »
The CB750 shop manual ch.8 has a very good description and chart about the voltages, rpm, light on or not.
I have attached the test page from ch 8

I recommend to read the entire chapter and do a service on the regulator, clean all connectors if resistances have wrong values,wrong voltage.
The field coil must get correct voltage so correct voltage value can come out from the alternator windings.
A bad battery can cause strange issues too. One day Ok, the other not. A battery can suddenlu get one pole shorted.

Forum member Two Tired has explained this down to molecule level several times on this forum.

EDit: OK I attach the entire chapter just for sure
My own experience was to clean ALL connections seen in the circuit diagram. Serviced the regulator and adjsuted it for correct voltage with light on as well as off. Wehave a lwa about light on daytime so charging is important.

If driving very slow very often below 4000 rpm and all lamps on will take more from the battery. 3 ohm ign coils another way to get drained battery, at least on my bike.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 03:51:14 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Vin750

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2017, 03:50:56 AM »
The CB750 shop manual ch.8 has a very good description and chart about the voltages, rpm, light on or not.
I have attached the test page from ch 8

I recommend to read the entire chapter and do a service on the regulator, clean all connectors if resistances have wrong values,wrong voltage.
The field coil must get correct voltage so correct voltage value can come out from the alternator windings.

Forum member Two Tired has explained this down to molecule level several times on this forum.

EDit: OK I attach the entire chapter just for sure

Thanks for all of that, I have the shop manual here and I will read the whole chapter.

Do you have a link of the post where Two Tired explained it?

Offline PeWe

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2017, 03:51:37 AM »
I added some more....
one link with Two Tired
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=93865.0

The BIG one by Two Tired. I miss his dedicated posts full of facts and energy. Guys like him make this place to a forum, a very technical one.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,118474.msg1338791.html#msg1338791
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 03:56:21 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Vin750

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2017, 03:58:27 AM »
I added some more....
one link with Two Tired
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=93865.0

The BIG one by Two Tired. I miss his dedicated posts full of facts and energy. Guys like him make this place to a forum, a very technical one.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,118474.msg1338791.html#msg1338791

Thank you again!

Where are you located?

Offline PeWe

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Re: 78 CB750 Charging Issue
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2017, 05:22:45 AM »
Where the winter still rules, bike is ready for the road in the garage... waiting for warmer weather and roads are brushed to remove the sand used during the icy winter.

Sweden latitude 59.6
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967