Author Topic: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?  (Read 6165 times)

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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2009, 06:13:53 AM »
Quote
So with the tubliss system you eliminate the tube but replace it with another tube? How much weight are they really saving?
It isnt a tube from what I can tell.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2009, 06:15:03 AM »
Sorry I'm old fashioned with a kneck in one piece and want to keep it that way

no way no how

+1

Unless you either modify the stock rim for tubeless tires or switch to tubeless rims you're just asking for serious trouble.  Just because it will work doesn't mean it's even remotely safe.  The one time you really, really need the tire to stay attached to the rim is the one time it's going to fail.  

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2009, 06:19:28 AM »
The tube in a motorcycle tire serves 2 functions.  1: Bladder to hold air  2: Friction to keep tire from spinning on the rim  Tubeless rims have solved #2 as already stated by incorporating the friction in the bead journal itself.  In 2009 it doesn't seem to be realistic that a tire would actually spin on a spoked motorcycle rim, but in the 1960s and 1970s it was a real concern.  The British manufacturers used rim locks to provide extra friction and dirt trackers actually used screws through the rim into the bead.  To me the benefits don't outweigh the gains.  One reason I think a tubeless wheel seems attractive is because very few people today change their own motorcycle tires.  A tube costs less than $10 but if you don't have the know-how or familiarity with changing tires then a roadside flat with a tube means a call to have the bike towed, whereas a tubeless tire means just a plug and a c02 canister.  Just my opinion.
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Offline dave400

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2009, 07:12:30 AM »
I think this thread should be deleted by the mods as the content of some of the posts may encourage people to do things with rims and it may result in them hurting themselves... or even worse. :o

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I agree with the people that say NO!

Offline Gordon

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2009, 07:33:30 AM »
I think the thread should stay.  Somebody who was thinking about doing this may come across this thread and see some of the reasons why they shouldn't do it that they didn't know about before.  If someone is informed of the reasons why something is unsafe to do and they still choose to do it, that's their decision to make.  Sort of like wearing a helmet or not. 

Offline dave400

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2009, 07:50:51 AM »
I think the thread should stay.  Somebody who was thinking about doing this may come across this thread and see some of the reasons why they shouldn't do it that they didn't know about before.  If someone is informed of the reasons why something is unsafe to do and they still choose to do it, that's their decision to make.  Sort of like wearing a helmet or not. 

 I disagree, wearing a helmet or not is just a personal thing in your country ... it will not cause a rapid deflation of a tyre that can put you and the bike on the other side of the road and that could impact on people who have no choice on a stupid mod made on a wheel.

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I agree with you it’s a stupid idea unless the correct rims are fitted.

Offline razor02097

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2009, 08:04:17 AM »
I really don't see the big advantage with eliminating the tube... in fact I think a tube is good cause you can patch a tube.  You arn't suppose to put a plug in a motorcycle tire, but you can patch a tube.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2009, 08:06:55 AM »
I disagree, wearing a helmet or not is just a personal thing in your country ... it will not cause a rapid deflation of a tyre that can put you and the bike on the other side of the road and that could impact on people who have no choice on a stupid mod made on a wheel.

And a bird, or rock can smack you in the face, if you're not wearing a full helmet, and cause you to veer into oncoming traffic.  It's a slippery slope to travel down when you start getting into secondary effects of a possible occurrence. 

Offline dave400

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2009, 08:29:40 AM »
I disagree, wearing a helmet or not is just a personal thing in your country ... it will not cause a rapid deflation of a tyre that can put you and the bike on the other side of the road and that could impact on people who have no choice on a stupid mod made on a wheel.

And a bird, or rock can smack you in the face, if you're not wearing a full helmet, and cause you to veer into oncoming traffic.  It's a slippery slope to travel down when you start getting into secondary effects of a possible occurrence. 




What’s up fella, stop writing stuff about birds/rocks you have gone off topic, this is a dangerous tyre fitting thread.... help stop these people doing stupid things with tyres and rims. ???
 
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2009, 08:38:31 AM »
Razor, you CAN plug a tire. most manufacturers say you can but it is temporary, just like patching a tube is. I am not advocating going tubeless, just showing an option that is available. I will not get into the whole safety thing as riding a bike is inherently dangerous anyways and if you were truly that concerned about safety, well your house would have bars on it. After all, people mod their engines and just cause everyone else might do it does not mean it is safe. A rod could get launched through the oil pan dumping oil on the road in front of your tire and down you will go. See what I mean? But without people pushing these boundaries on safety, we would not be where we are today.

Like I said, it was something interesting. besides, people with old triumph tigers have converted their rims to tubeless. There are also companies that do rim sealing to go tubeless. I understand that people are worried about safety, I certainly do not think that is wrong, yet others have safely converted and that has to say something too.
It comes down to what a person wants to do but it is good to have debate for both sides so an INFORMED decision can be made.

Also, a hole in a tube deflates a LOT faster than in a tubeless. I got first hand experience on that one. :o At least it was the rear tire!

Offline Johnny-5

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2009, 08:46:10 AM »
I think theres alot of mixed feelings on going in either both directions. Goods and Bads. If done properly tubeless has its advantages as well as flaws and with tubes vice versa.

Either way I didnt mean to start a war on here I was just curious. I think this is a good way of telling people goods and bads and its at your own risk if you opt to go in that particular direction. If its not on here its posted everywhere else and now a days all you got to do is surf the net and there it is...DIY, etc.

Just my thoughts.

Offline Johnny-5

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2009, 08:52:57 AM »
Agree, riding in general is dangerous...hell you walk out of your house or driving to work or home its just as dangerous.

As for the tubes Ive heard horror stories of people who got a puncture in a tube and lost control and down they went. As for with tubeless you get a nail or what not and its a slow leak. Either way you look at it...it has its goods and bads.

Razor, you CAN plug a tire. most manufacturers say you can but it is temporary, just like patching a tube is. I am not advocating going tubeless, just showing an option that is available. I will not get into the whole safety thing as riding a bike is inherently dangerous anyways and if you were truly that concerned about safety, well your house would have bars on it. After all, people mod their engines and just cause everyone else might do it does not mean it is safe. A rod could get launched through the oil pan dumping oil on the road in front of your tire and down you will go. See what I mean? But without people pushing these boundaries on safety, we would not be where we are today.

Like I said, it was something interesting. besides, people with old triumph tigers have converted their rims to tubeless. There are also companies that do rim sealing to go tubeless. I understand that people are worried about safety, I certainly do not think that is wrong, yet others have safely converted and that has to say something too.
It comes down to what a person wants to do but it is good to have debate for both sides so an INFORMED decision can be made.

Also, a hole in a tube deflates a LOT faster than in a tubeless. I got first hand experience on that one. :o At least it was the rear tire!

Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2009, 09:08:41 AM »
I fully agree with that. Both are good and bad. A tube is $10, a tire is quite a bit more. Yet a leak in a tubeless is slow and safer usually. I guess a person just has to decide what risks they want to take. Kinda like running thru a peta campaign with a ham sandwich on your back! ;D

Offline Johnny-5

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2009, 09:15:19 AM »
I fully agree with that. Both are good and bad. A tube is $10, a tire is quite a bit more. Yet a leak in a tubeless is slow and safer usually. I guess a person just has to decide what risks they want to take. Kinda like running thru a peta campaign with a ham sandwich on your back! ;D

LOL....."running thru a peta campaign with a ham sandwich on your back!" NICE!!!  :D

Offline DavePhipps

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2009, 09:37:17 AM »
These guys might make what you want
http://www.woodyswheelworks.com/
They only use rims made for tubeless
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Offline Johnny-5

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2009, 10:08:56 AM »
These guys might make what you want
http://www.woodyswheelworks.com/
They only use rims made for tubeless


Yea when I was doing some researching about tubeless I found his page as well. I should call him and pick his brain to see what he says about the tubeless pro's and cons.

Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2009, 10:10:27 AM »
Has anyone looked at a Dayton wire wheel for a car lately?

Granted the rim edges are designed for a tubeless tire, but they put the silicone on EXREMELY thick around the nipples. So think in fact that they level out the spoke valley on the inside of the rim.

And people use those rims for lowriders and hopping competitions.

My thought is that you could find a hoop that was designed for a tubeless tire and lace it to you OEM hub. Then true it and slather on the silicone.

Pushing boundaries is a good thing as long as people understand it is AT THEIR OWN RISK.

And as for the Tubliss system not being DOT approved - neither are jet kits and 99% of aftermarket exhausts and accessories. But that doesn't seem to stop people. Or rile up the govt. too much.
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Offline razor02097

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2009, 10:23:47 AM »
Razor, you CAN plug a tire. most manufacturers say you can but it is temporary, just like patching a tube is. I am not advocating going tubeless, just showing an option that is available. I will not get into the whole safety thing as riding a bike is inherently dangerous anyways and if you were truly that concerned about safety, well your house would have bars on it. After all, people mod their engines and just cause everyone else might do it does not mean it is safe. A rod could get launched through the oil pan dumping oil on the road in front of your tire and down you will go. See what I mean? But without people pushing these boundaries on safety, we would not be where we are today.

Like I said, it was something interesting. besides, people with old triumph tigers have converted their rims to tubeless. There are also companies that do rim sealing to go tubeless. I understand that people are worried about safety, I certainly do not think that is wrong, yet others have safely converted and that has to say something too.
It comes down to what a person wants to do but it is good to have debate for both sides so an INFORMED decision can be made.

Also, a hole in a tube deflates a LOT faster than in a tubeless. I got first hand experience on that one. :o At least it was the rear tire!

I said you shouldn't

Just like you shouldn't patch a z rated tire

You can but its not recommended, as a temp fix if you can do it on the side of the road by all means go for it but I wouldn't run it long term or anything.
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Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2009, 10:30:53 AM »
I said you shouldn't

Just like you shouldn't patch a z rated tire

You can but its not recommended, as a temp fix if you can do it on the side of the road by all means go for it but I wouldn't run it long term or anything.

I agree. I know I plug tires for guys that don't quite have the cash for replacements that day, week, etc. But I always make them sign a release stating that a plug is not intended for permanent repair and that I am in no way held responsible if it will not hold air after a few days, or for any damage resulting.

Some balk at that but it comes down to your desire to ride and your finances. If both are huge then it doesn't matter. But sometimes you gotta ride.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2009, 11:52:19 AM »
Agree, riding in general is dangerous...hell you walk out of your house or driving to work or home its just as dangerous.

You can't actually believe that do you?  :o
As my flying instructor would say, that is poor risk management.  Certainly there are risks related to any activity, even sleeping.  But, one of the keys to survival is identifying the potential risks and minimize their impact on the activity.
Jumping off a roof is survivable.  Jumping off ANY roof is not!  Sleeping is generally low risk, unless you do it on the freeway, or behind the wheel/controls of a vehicle.

Anyway, back to topic...

Tubeless tires were lauded as reducing blowout occurrences, which ARE more common with tube type tires.  But that is only true if using the entire tire system.  Not just the tire itself.  The system INCLUDES the rim design.
When the tubeless tire loses it's seal to the rim, you get the equivalent of a blowout!

Next I expect we'll have a thread about using baby oil during engine break in since we want to baby the engine during break in.  ::)

BTW, most tire shops in California will not plug a tubeless tire, regardless of the customer funds level, though they know how and it works most of the time.  It's a matter of liability and what the insurance company says they'll accept.  Most will patch a tubeless tire, based on the recommendations of the tire manufacturer.  It's not hard to believe Z rated tires shouldn't be patched, as any puncture that weakens the carcass fibers can lead to catastrophic failure at high speed.
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Offline Caaveman82

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2009, 12:21:44 PM »
Working with tires and wheels I'm going to have to say modding your tire/wheel at all is a bad idea. I've seen what happens and it's not pretty.

If you understand this but you want to push the limits, then by all means. If you are just thinking about it for poos and giggles then I would say save yourself the hassel and just stick with the tube.
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2009, 12:22:05 PM »
tt, the point of plugging tires is to get back to town. You keep the speed low and take easy on the corners. nuff said really. Besides, a plug and some co2 is lot lighter and smaller than a tire.

As for your flying instructor, that is his opinion. ANYTHING you do has a possibility of danger, even being a couch potato. Again, it all comes down to how much risk a person is willing to take.

Offline cb350twin

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2009, 02:19:40 PM »
I'm gonna go with its dangerous too. Most of the spoked tubeless rims that I have seen at least on Moto Guzzi's and Ductai's  the rim is shaped like an  I. The spokes go on the top part of the the I so they overhang the lower part of the I which the tire is on.
                                                                     
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2009, 02:21:38 PM »
I think the hub relace is the best way to go. That way you do not have to adapt a new hub AND you get the tubeless specific rim.

Offline razor02097

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Re: Has anyone ever thought about going tubeless in our tires?
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2009, 02:29:53 PM »
tt, the point of plugging tires is to get back to town. You keep the speed low and take easy on the corners. nuff said really. Besides, a plug and some co2 is lot lighter and smaller than a tire.

As for your flying instructor, that is his opinion. ANYTHING you do has a possibility of danger, even being a couch potato. Again, it all comes down to how much risk a person is willing to take.

Slime or fix a flat will do that job quicker.  Not the slime in the bottle the slime brand canned stuff.  I don't know about you but I sure as hell am not going to find the nail and repair it while cars wizz by at 60MPH.

But all this is off topic... the topic is the question if anyone has thought about going with tubeless tire setups.  IMO if its a spoked rim going tubeless is asking for trouble.
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