Author Topic: My sister's car is going to make me commit suicide I swear, help please. (Read 2075 times)

Caaveman82 · « **on:** June 30, 2009, 04:27:35 PM »

So I posted this on another forum specifically for Honda Elements, no answer so I figured I know someone can help me here.

Okay so my sister's element had completely trashed rear rotors, pads, and calipers. The driver side caliper was so bad half of the piston had been ground off from touching the rotor.

So new loaded calipers and rotors and life is good, for a few weeks.

Now the driver side rear caliper I would say is locking up? I don't know. It's making a lot more heat than the passanger side rears. I tried bleeding them again and double checked to make sure none of the bolts are siezing up. I can put the car in neutral and still cannot spin the rotor so something is wrong but I don't know what I am missing.... I don't know what the deal is.

Anyone have any ideas?

P.S. It's not the wheel bearing either.

Cvillechopper · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2009, 04:42:22 PM »

Bad master cylinder maybe? If it's putting more pressure to the one rotor it'll smoke it for sure.

Caaveman82 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2009, 04:46:00 PM »

Quote from: Cvillechopper on June 30, 2009, 04:42:22 PM

Bad master cylinder maybe? If it's putting more pressure to the one rotor it'll smoke it for sure.

That was the first thing that popped into my head as well but when it was in at the dealership a couple weeks ago they had tested it and said it was tip top.

Achmed · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2009, 04:47:46 PM »

Maybe a bent wheel causing the rotor to warp? Or causing a warped hub?

TwoTired · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2009, 05:13:53 PM »

Did you check to make sure the caliper "floats" laterally and easily?

bucky katt · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2009, 05:43:31 PM »

is the proportioning valve seperate from the master cylinder? could be that thats the problem. happened to the lincoln i used to have

Achmed · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2009, 06:53:48 PM »

good idea, bucky. I didn't think of that.

mattcb350f · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2009, 07:03:15 PM »

Couple of idears...

How does the parking brake work? Is it the kind with the drum inside the rotor...if so, make sure that is not the problem.

If it's the kind with a linkage built into the caliper, it could be the cable seizing up or simply a bad caliper. My VW has this type of caliper and I've had no end of problems with them.

It could also be a flex hose. The heat created by the rotor melt down might have cooked it and when this happens, they can colapse internally and act as a check valve.....holding the brakes on.

Matt.

PxTx · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2009, 07:06:50 PM »

I have had soft brake lines give me fits. I've had a situation where the inside of the rubber begins to scale. These scales pr barbs act like a check valve and prevent the fluid from returning to the MC. Just recently had a co-worker with a KZ750 with a sticking rear caliper remdy this problem with a new soft line. How old is the element and milage?

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2009, 07:43:38 PM »

Did you check the warp on the rotors? If they are just even .007 out, that could be enough to make things drag and cause further warpage. Also, do the lugs have little goofy washers on them that hold the rotor in place while the wheel is off? These are not so much an issue with steel wheels but alloy wheels can if they get torqued down too much. The washers cause the wheel to sit slightly off and then warp the rotor, especially when the wheel is turning.

pee wee · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2009, 09:26:47 PM »

you need torque sticks to put the wheels on like has been said, you can put uneven stress on the rotor.

tramp · « **Reply #11 on:** July 01, 2009, 03:20:07 AM »

sometimes you just get a bad caliper
did you grease the slides?

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #12 on:** July 01, 2009, 04:47:30 AM »

Quote

How does the parking brake work? Is it the kind with the drum inside the rotor...if so, make sure that is not the problem.

I am in the middle of fixing this exact problem, the rear brake was working properly but the handbrake part of the caliper was not working properly, it was making the brake "drag" on one wheel and chewing up my pads. I am putting another caliper on it tomorrow.

Mick

Caaveman82 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 01, 2009, 05:35:50 AM »

Quote from: Achmed on June 30, 2009, 04:47:46 PM

Maybe a bent wheel causing the rotor to warp? Or causing a warped hub?

I work wheels for a living and have mounted and balanced new tires on it recently and when I inspected them they were within .003.

Quote from: TwoTired on June 30, 2009, 05:13:53 PM

Did you check to make sure the caliper "floats" laterally and easily?

That's part of the problem. I took the caliper off and spun the piston back in and it went in with no problem. Then I had her step on the brake while it was in neutral and the piston comes out to brake just fine but will not fully retract.

Quote from: bucky katt on June 30, 2009, 05:43:31 PM

is the proportioning valve seperate from the master cylinder? could be that thats the problem. happened to the lincoln i used to have

I checked that as well I had that happen on my Ford Tarus, it was okay.

Quote from: vinmans brew on June 30, 2009, 07:43:38 PM

Did you check the warp on the rotors? If they are just even .007 out, that could be enough to make things drag and cause further warpage. Also, do the lugs have little goofy washers on them that hold the rotor in place while the wheel is off? These are not so much an issue with steel wheels but alloy wheels can if they get torqued down too much. The washers cause the wheel to sit slightly off and then warp the rotor, especially when the wheel is turning.

I took the rotor off and put it on the balancing machine and put the indicator on it, it was all within .001.

Quote from: tramp on July 01, 2009, 03:20:07 AM

sometimes you just get a bad caliper
did you grease the slides?

I did grease the slides.

I am thinking it may just be a faulty caliper. I really don't know what else it could be.

Quote from: mattcb350f on June 30, 2009, 07:03:15 PM

Couple of idears...

How does the parking brake work? Is it the kind with the drum inside the rotor...if so, make sure that is not the problem.

If it's the kind with a linkage built into the caliper, it could be the cable seizing up or simply a bad caliper. My VW has this type of caliper and I've had no end of problems with them.

It could also be a flex hose. The heat created by the rotor melt down might have cooked it and when this happens, they can colapse internally and act as a check valve.....holding the brakes on.

Matt.

I made sure to adjust the cable for the parking brake. I took them out and they are still there so I assume after 200 miles if they were catching they would have been ground off by now.

I did check the hose as well. It seems to be okay. I took it off and looked through it the best I could and I could see light at the other end without too much effort.

I don't know, this thing is making me crazy and I don't want her driving around with a problem on the brakes with my neice. If something happened to them I'd feel horrible.

I told her to just take it to the dealership, they are pretty good and I get a discount there because they are clients of ours.

Damn it all. I'll let you guys know what stupid little thing it ends up being.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #14 on:** July 01, 2009, 06:20:15 AM »

How old is this honda? I mean they generally have pretty good warranties. You never know, depending on how long it has been an issue, some places might even replace it for close to free if the warranty has not been expired for too long. Just thoughts on how to save some cash.

Caaveman82 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 01, 2009, 07:08:51 AM »

Quote from: vinmans brew on July 01, 2009, 06:20:15 AM

How old is this honda? I mean they generally have pretty good warranties. You never know, depending on how long it has been an issue, some places might even replace it for close to free if the warranty has not been expired for too long. Just thoughts on how to save some cash.

The last time she had her brakes done was by Tires Plus, it did not become an issue untill they touched her car, we took it back to them and they told us to piss up a rope pretty much. So we took it to Honda and the warrenty is out.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #16 on:** July 01, 2009, 08:58:30 AM »

I bet they torqued the lugs down too far and buggered something. Thats who killed my rotors.
they put the lugs on so tight I had to use a cheater bar to get them off! Not good.

TwoTired · « **Reply #17 on:** July 01, 2009, 12:02:29 PM »

Quote from: Caaveman82 on July 01, 2009, 05:35:50 AM

Quote from: TwoTired on June 30, 2009, 05:13:53 PM
Did you check to make sure the caliper "floats" laterally and easily?

That's part of the problem. I took the caliper off and spun the piston back in and it went in with no problem. Then I had her step on the brake while it was in neutral and the piston comes out to brake just fine but will not fully retract.

That's not really what I'm talking about. The entire caliper in most cars floats side to side laterally to compensate of uneven pad wear. It's not about piston retraction into the caliper bore, it's that the caliper doesn't move to center the "space" between the pads on the rotor, leaving bias friction on only one of the pads.
I don't know that this is the problem in your situation, just that it can be. It only takes one of those float pins being bent or improperly lubed.

martino1972 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 01, 2009, 12:18:55 PM »

does that car have ABS..

I've seen them where the ABS unit is buggered up,keeping a slight pressure on the calipers....

Caaveman82 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2009, 12:32:44 PM »

Quote from: martino1972 on July 01, 2009, 12:18:55 PM

does that car have ABS.. I've seen them where the ABS unit is buggered up,keeping a slight pressure on the calipers....

That sounds like what is happening sort of.

How would I check this?

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #20 on:** July 01, 2009, 12:33:48 PM »

Easy way to check that is to open the bleed screw and if you get a squirt, then there is pressure. I know when you do abs systems, you should open the screw before you push the pads in to prevent weird issues with the abs.
As for a floating brake system, I have never seen loose pads like that. they have always had the very slightest touch on the rotors. but then your calipers should not be loose anyways, the mechanic that leaves you rotors loose should be reported. The pads on the other hand should be able to wiggle a little bit but not much. I have yet to see a car where the caliper floats but hey, I have only done brakes or seen brakes on 15 different vehicles, so maybe.

martino1972 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 01, 2009, 12:34:45 PM »

Quote from: Caaveman82 on July 01, 2009, 12:32:44 PM

Quote from: martino1972 on July 01, 2009, 12:18:55 PM
does that car have ABS.. I've seen them where the ABS unit is buggered up,keeping a slight pressure on the calipers....

That sounds like what is happening sort of.

How would I check this?

I mostly talk to the costumer about it,I mostly just eliminate the unit....if they really want to keep it,I send them to the dealer.....I don't have the tools to fix ABS units....

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Author Topic: My sister's car is going to make me commit suicide I swear, help please. (Read 2075 times)