Topic: 19" Spoke Wheel relacing

[Hop on a Honda]

Hi Hondaites.
I have undertaken something which has my blood pressure a little up.
I am about to relace/ rebuild a new 19" chrome rim and S/H polished front wheel hub.
My SS spokes and nipples are great looking set made in Australia, me thinks!!. 
Never done one before but with some good mates around I have tackled this evolution with out any planning "Gung Ho" may be the saying to this folley.
I have a old wheel to copy and I know that there are two types of spokes to have.
One goes into the hub from the inside out and visa versa.
Q?/ is there a nice pleasant pice of written advice thata I may fall back on if I stuff it.
Terry and Clive hold back.
Cheers & wish me luck
Dave in Newcastle Australia.

[paulages]

i just did my 19" front, having never built a wheel before, and when i got it back from the shop after having the tire mounted, they said it was perfect. didn't even need balancing. the spokes with the sharper angle are the outer ones. lace the inners first on both sides, lightly seating the nipples. then go through and do the outers. when you're done go around and tighten the by hand until they are firmly tightened, making sure to tighten them all only a little at a time.

i made a truing stand out of an old swingarm mounted in a bench vice, with closepins as guides for truing. spin it around, tightening each nipple half a turn or so with your spoke wrench, until you finally have them all fairly tight. not too tight, and make sure to only tighten a little at a time, evenly all the way around the wheel, or you'll pull it way out of round really quickly. once they're all tight. start adjusting for hop, and then for wobble. if you do a search on this forum, you'll find where i was asking some wheel questions not so long ago, and someone posted a helpful link. it was after i had it built, but it was still a great link.

gotta build my 16" rear tonight! been waiting for my conversion spokes from buchanans forever and finally got them. good luck!

[Ernest]

Never done it before but I planned on reviewing this for when I do.
This is scanned pages of an old Honda chopper manual.  If you scroll down to choppermanual_LO_19_0001 it starts the section on wheel lacing.
Hope this helps.

Hond Chopper manual

[Terry in Australia]

gotta build my 16" rear tonight! been waiting for my conversion spokes from buchanans forever and finally got them. good luck!

Oohh aaahh, how about some pics mate? I just bought a 16 inch rear rim and I'll get it powdercoated, then lace it as soon as I can find a good hub! Cheers, Terry.

[dusterdude]

terry,if you want a hub with no brakes or sprocket piece let me know

[paulages]

i will post some pics when i get it laced, terry. i laced it up last night AGAIN, but the spoke kit is wierd and the outer spokes sit in the rim really strangely. buchanans insist that this isn't a problem, so i'll try again today when i get a chance.

for future reference: if you are lacing a cb hub to a 16" harley rim, try and find a kit with all inner spokes. the dimple pattern on a harley rim is so that the inner and outer spokes want to hit the rim from the same angle, which just doesn't seem to be possible. it would look much better, and the nipples would seat better if they were all inners. oh well, you live and learn...

[Terry in Australia]

terry,if you want a hub with no brakes or sprocket piece let me know

Yes please mate! I really don't want to cut the spokes in my 18 inch wheel, so your hub will be mucho appreciated! Cheers, Terry.

[Terry in Australia]

i will post some pics when i get it laced, terry. i laced it up last night AGAIN, but the spoke kit is wierd and the outer spokes sit in the rim really strangely. buchanans insist that this isn't a problem, so i'll try again today when i get a chance.

for future reference: if you are lacing a cb hub to a 16" harley rim, try and find a kit with all inner spokes. the dimple pattern on a harley rim is so that the inner and outer spokes want to hit the rim from the same angle, which just doesn't seem to be possible. it would look much better, and the nipples would seat better if they were all inners. oh well, you live and learn...

Thanks Paul, I've got a set of chrome spokes that I bought on Ebay ages ago, I'll pull them out and see what they look like. Don't forget the pics! Cheers, Terry.   

[dusterdude]

terry,if you want a hub with no brakes or sprocket piece let me know

Yes please mate! I really don't want to cut the spokes in my 18 inch wheel, so your hub will be mucho appreciated! Cheers, Terry.

terry,send me an email with you address and ill try to figure shipping for you.any idea what a hub weighs?

[dgmiller]

Well, I laced and trued a front 19" and rear 18" last Summer with pattern spokes/nipples from David Silver.  The spokes were cheap and they look nice.  The whole process was much easier than I thought and when I took both to my local bike shop for final trueing they did the job on both in less than 45 minutes.  Seems I got them so close they had very little work to do to dial them in.  Lucky I guess... but I won't hesitate to do it again in the future as I have another set just awaiting restoration.

[Terry in Australia]

for future reference: if you are lacing a cb hub to a 16" harley rim, try and find a kit with all inner spokes. the dimple pattern on a harley rim is so that the inner and outer spokes want to hit the rim from the same angle, which just doesn't seem to be possible. it would look much better, and the nipples would seat better if they were all inners. oh well, you live and learn...

Thanks Paul, I dragged my poor sick carcase out to the garage last night and collapsed beside my K1. I looked across at the 16 inch rear wheel that is on it at the moment, and it dawned on me that all the spokes are "inners", so maybe that is the standard procedure for lacing "Hog" rims? Either way it looks nice, I'm planning on powdercoating Dusty's hub gloss black as well as my newly aquired "swap meet" 16 inch rim, and with the chrome spokes, it should look pretty cool. Cheers, Terry. 

[paulages]

i will post pics whenever i figure out how the hell to get it to lace up properly. buchanans insisted that  they were lacing a cb hub to a harley rim,while i was on the phone with them,but it sure doesn't want to start itself very easily. the outers sit at such a wierd angle to the dimples in the rim, that they won't tighten seat easily hand tightnening the nipples, resulting in a bad wobble and hop from the getgo. i'll update when i get it sorted out.

[techy5025]

The Buchanon spokes are thicker at the hub end and have to be forced a little to
line up with the holes in the rim.  To really lace easily you need two runout guages...
one in line with the rim and one at ninety degrees so you can see the effect of
adjustments.

The runout guages are available at Sears.

Jim

[paulages]

yeah, i just made the runout gauges by clamping on a piece of flat steel to the bracket already on my swingarm homemade truing stand.  if i push the rim up against this bracket, it serves as a reference point for lateral runout, and the clamped on piece works for radial runout. maybe i'll post a picture of this as well...

[paulages]

just dropped my wheel off at the shop to have the tire mounted. 130/90/16 on a 16" x 3.5" harley rim. it ended up lacing up very strangely, with the outer spokes having a bow in them as they found where they wanted to be situated vs. the angle buchanans made them at. i'm guessing it's gonna cause me problems down the road (hopefully on my road). at the very least, the bow might flex with riding and need to be retensioned.



here's my homemade truing stand. i think the swingarm is off of a kawasaki (?).

[Terry in Australia]

Hey good job mate, that looks nice. Tell me this, are Harley front whels 40 spoke also? I wouldn't mind fitting a matching front rim? I had a Sporty back in the 1980's, but never counted the spokes? Cheers, Terry.

[paulages]

not sure...i'm certainly not a harley guy, but i do know that a 16" x 3.5" setup with a 130/90/16 tire like the one i used is the most common on modern harleys. and it's 40 hole. so, i guess the answer is probably. but finding one that's not 3.5 wide? not so sure.

[dusterdude]

all harleys with spokes are 40

[dgmiller]

From what I understand, the bow in the outer spokes is common and is corrected by a tap from a rubber hammer at the base of the spoke on the hub end.  Had the exact same problem with my rear wheel and corrected it that way.  Also checked the trueness after I whammed all of 'em just in case.  No noticable effect though and the spokes are straight and lay nice and flat now.

[Terry in Australia]

all harleys with spokes are 40

Hey Dusty, I should have asked you, being a Harley man, what is the standard front wheel size on a sporty? I always thought it was 19", but I've seen mostly 18" and 21" rims for sale, and no 19"? I'd like to lace a 40 spoke 19 inch front Harley rim on to my spare Honda front hub to match the 16" rim on the back of my K1? Lemme know mate, you're now my harley expert, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. 

[paulages]

here's that 16" setup on my cb550. the tire is a dunlop sport devil 130/90/16.

[Hop on a Honda]

 ;DHondaites.
The 19inch rim is now threaded so to speak.
I have the basic knowledge that the inner spokes are really the only ones that can make the radial runout correct and th outers are the ones to make the lateral runnout correction.
Any way it seems to be running true. BUT it has a definite heavy side IE radialy out of balance.
To me its noticeable,, one heavy spot.
Do I have the two sets of spokes(Inner & Outer)  in reverse? as some of the nipples seem to be not totaly threaded to the break even point.
Frommy knowledge the Spokes with the acute angle 120degrees go up the out side.
IE Through the inner hub whilst being laced therefore come up the outside of the hub to the rim.
The 90 Degree ones are the inner ones.(Threaded through from the outside) 
Put me out of my missery? but #$%* it looks good!
Cheers Dave

[Terry in Australia]

here's that 16" setup on my cb550. the tire is a dunlop sport devil 130/90/16.

I don't like the look of those curvy spokes mate, that looks dangerous! What did the guys at the bike shop say? Be careful Paul, I don't want you to become a big red stain on the highway! Cheers, Terry.

[paulages]

thanks terry, nor do i...they gave the same disclaimer that it was abnormal, but seemed to think that they would find where they want to be and then need to be retrued. the first angle in those outers is bent from buchanans. it's the slight curve towards the nipple that worries me. do you really think i could end up with total failure, or isn't it more likely that one or a couple might break indicating that it's time to figure something else out? by the way, when i get back over to the bike, i'll take more detailed pics of the spokes.

HOAH, unless i'm misunderstanding you, you might have the spokes backwards...the ones with the sharper (close to 45 deg.) should be the outers (threaded from inside and sitting outside of the hub), and the ones with the less of a bend in the shoulder should be the inners. however, it would seem very hard to put them backwards without the heads on the spokes visibly sitting strangely in the hub, so maybe you have it right. also, look for nicks in the hub from the old spokes and make sure you have them going in the correct direction. is there a "hop", or does it just fall to that one side at rest? the wheel could be perfectly round and just be imbalanced. my rear was badly imbalanced due to the weld in the seam.

[Hop on a Honda]

 
Hi Guys.
Yes I'm of the same opinion. The spokes actually folow the old spoke path and are all aligned correctly.
I have a heavy spot that what concerns me I should imaging that the Hub would have one too Not nessecilary the rim weld maybe I managed to align them both.
Bad news I shall have to realign the welds so as their opposite, this should minimise the imbalance of the combination of Rim andhub.
More of this exciting episode coming on a screen near you soon
Dave .

[paulages]

if you can manage without weights on the rim, great, but don't forget that's what a wheel balance is for. sometimes you get it perfectly trued and there's nothing you can do but add weights to even the balance out.

[Terry in Australia]

Keep talking guys, I'm actually learning something here! Paul, I don't know what the outcome might be, but I don't like the way the bend is more pronounced near the spoke nipples, if they're going to break anywhere they will at the threaded portion, but I'm certainly no expert, I just don't want you getting hurt. Cheers, Terry.

[paulages]

i'm gonna end buchanans a closup photo of those spokes nd see what they tell me...

[dusterdude]

terry,if memory serves  me correct,the sportys and the narrow glide big twins had 19 inch front rims

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks Dusty, i'll check it out! Cheers, Terry.

[Sam Green Racing]

Listen you guys,....this is not meant to be sarcastic or smart arse but,......good luck to you all.

Over my 40 years of competition riding I got to meet quite a few wheel builders, some you stay clear of,...some you use again.

The tarmac can hurt at low speeds just as much as it can at very high speeds....been there...done it...got the T shirt.

Don't take your lives into your own hands for a few dollars,....leave it to the guys that know what they are doing.

Ride safe.

Sam.

[paulages]

i agree, which is why i have always left it with my local shop in the end to check through everything before mounting the tire. not sure how much more i can do but actually have them do the legwork i started.

[Terry in Australia]

Listen you guys,....this is not meant to be sarcastic or smart arse but,......good luck to you all.

Over my 40 years of competition riding I got to meet quite a few wheel builders, some you stay clear of,...some you use again.

The tarmac can hurt at low speeds just as much as it can at very high speeds....been there...done it...got the T shirt.

Don't take your lives into your own hands for a few dollars,....leave it to the guys that know what they are doing.

Ride safe.

Sam.

Good advice Sam, have you got any spare T shirts mate? It's getting pretty warm here and I'm running out of "Been there, done that" logo shirts? XXL please mate! Ha ha, Cheers, Terry.

[Sam Green Racing]

Terry,

Only came off the once,....can you imagine what a 34 year old T shirt looks like. 1971.

[Terry in Australia]

Terry,

can you imagine what a 34 year old T shirt looks like?

Yeah mate, whenever I get dressed in front of the mirror, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[lassenc]

i agree, which is why i have always left it with my local shop in the end to check through everything before mounting the tire. not sure how much more i can do but actually have them do the legwork i started.

I know it's an old topic now

Noticed a thing on my CB500, that all of the, original spokes have that same bend, but they are not at the hub flange, they are made this way!

[crazypj]

Listen you guys,....this is not meant to be sarcastic or smart arse but,......good luck to you all.

Over my 40 years of competition riding I got to meet quite a few wheel builders, some you stay clear of,...some you use again.

The tarmac can hurt at low speeds just as much as it can at very high speeds....been there...done it...got the T shirt.

Don't take your lives into your own hands for a few dollars,....leave it to the guys that know what they are doing.

Ride safe.

Sam.

Aint been there done that, but I have been somewhat near and done something similar ( and I build wheels)
PJ

[Hop on a Honda]

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[Terry in Australia]

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