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Author Topic: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.  (Read 2397 times)

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Offline IAmCitizenMe

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It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« on: June 22, 2009, 11:06:47 PM »
I got up to my first thousand miles on my bike. I was showing my younger brother how to change the oil. We did everything necessary and now, when the RPMs get above 4k, it loses all torque. I have to lighten up on the throttle to get any sort of acceleration. Looking back on it, I have a feeling my brother put in too much oil. I checked how much he put in compared to the bin of used oil. There wasn't much in the collector bin, but there was about 3.5 quarts out of the jug of oil. Can too much oil cause a problem. Taking those turns just isn't as much fun without the gusto.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2009, 12:59:29 AM »
And you don't check the dipstick level because....   ???


The crank/rods spin above the oil supply in the sump.  If it picks up oil with the rotating mass it froths the oil, and some of it spins around with the crank causing drag.

The 550 needs 3.2 quarts, assuming you drained the oil filter housing, too.
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Offline IAmCitizenMe

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 02:14:21 AM »
No, I checked the oil level. The level is fine, the oil is clean and the problem still exists. The bike used to have quite a bit of kick to it. Suddenly when it goes over 4K rpm, the engine revs but I get no pull. I can't diagnose the problem. It doesn't sputter, it doesn't backfire, it doesn't jump. Just once it goes over 4K, the engine performs like it's in neutral. What the hell happened?
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Offline tonycb650

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2009, 04:57:55 AM »
what type of oil did you use?
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Offline Hush

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2009, 05:35:25 AM »
Maybe the oil change was just a coincidence, check your advancer unit, the wee fly weights may be stuck or dry.
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patrickd

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 05:53:51 AM »
Since it started after you changed the oil. I suspect your clutch is slipping. What oil did you use?
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Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 07:05:23 AM »
Other things to check:

- firing on all 4?
- sticky brake?
- air in an in-line fuel filter?
- plugged in-tank fuel filter?
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Offline mlinder

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 07:28:02 AM »
Quote from: IAmCitizenMe on June 27, 2009, 02:14:21 AM
No, I checked the oil level. The level is fine, the oil is clean and the problem still exists. The bike used to have quite a bit of kick to it. Suddenly when it goes over 4K rpm, the engine revs but I get no pull. I can't diagnose the problem. It doesn't sputter, it doesn't backfire, it doesn't jump. Just once it goes over 4K, the engine performs like it's in neutral. What the hell happened?

His clutch is slipping. Note the "Suddenly when it goes over 4K rpm, the engine revs but I get no pull".
as patrickd asked, what kind of oil did you use? These are wet clutch bikes. The The clutch uses the same oil as the engine. Using oils with the extra slippery crap in them can cause clutch slippage, and is almost impossible to rectify without either replacing the clutch plates orremoving them and getting them free of the offending oil.

IU also think it was eldar who mentioned that using certain synthetics or other oils can cause the old sludge buildup from dino oil to come loose and cause slippage, though I can't confirm this.

So, what oil did you use?
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Offline IAmCitizenMe

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 10:45:32 AM »
I used 10W-40.

Damnit. I don't know enough yet to understand how to check the problems you guys are listing, let alone fix them!
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Offline mlinder

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2009, 10:49:47 AM »
Quote from: IAmCitizenMe on June 27, 2009, 10:45:32 AM
I used 10W-40.

Damnit. I don't know enough yet to understand how to check the problems you guys are listing, let alone fix them!

10-40 what?
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Offline MJL

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2009, 12:01:39 PM »
What brand of oil? Is it motorcycle oil or car oil?
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Offline mlinder

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2009, 06:28:13 PM »
Earth calling citizen, come in, citizen :)
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Offline IAmCitizenMe

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2009, 08:06:44 AM »
Sorry, I've been away from the internet for a while.

I used some of my dad's 10W-40 jug-o-oil he's had in the garage for ages. Why it didn't occur to me to use four-stroke oil, I will never know. I must have been half drunk, half asleep and half dumb.

I drained the old oil out and put in some Castrol 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil. The clutch is still slipping, as mlinder had explained it would do.

Other than replacing the clutch plates and/or cleaning them one by one and reinstalling them, is there any other possible remedy? Like time? Is it possible to wait it out?

I finally got my Clymer in the mail so certain procedures will be more do-able, but I want to minimize the risks.
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Offline Cvillechopper

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2009, 08:19:22 AM »
The problem for motorcycles with the additives in automotive oil is that they stick around.  Great for everyting BUT the clutch.  I have heard of people waiting it out but it seems to me they never got the full grab back and it took a while.  If you end up having to pull the clutch pack, read the manual SEVERAL times before you start and refer to it at every step.  Many of us will admit to having broken parts by not following the proper sequence.  The 550 isn't as bad as the 750 but it's still possible.  Also, if you don't already have a torque wrench, get one.  Only thing worse than over torquing and stripping/cracking something is under torquing and finding out on the road...
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Offline Sporkfly

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2009, 08:21:43 AM »
Clymer  :-X

Do yourself a favor and get the Honda shop manual. In fact, you can view it on this site. Clymer will tell you enough to screw up the bike unless you already have decent knowledge on the bike. I'd just go to Motorcycle Superstore or something similar and pick up a clutch kit, you're talking a 30 year old clutch here so you might as well just replace the sucker. I wouldn't want to take the effort to clean it up. The plates can be had for around $60.
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Offline IAmCitizenMe

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2009, 08:29:30 AM »
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Offline MJL

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2009, 10:43:52 AM »
Do they really have cork for friction material?  I didn't see a clutch on that site for my 73 750, but there's a shop in town that can rebuild anything you bring them, they specialize in rebuilding old obsolete clutches of any material.
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Offline IAmCitizenMe

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2009, 09:00:19 PM »
I guess I might as well replace them. It's not worth running into a bigger problem while on the road. Can anyone reccoment a good brand and/or website.
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Offline mlinder

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2009, 06:12:47 AM »
OEM clutch parts here:
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/honda-motorcycle-cb550k-1978/o/m9449
Kinda pricey. Bout 130 bucks for all of em.
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Offline IAmCitizenMe

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2009, 10:41:13 AM »
Pardon my ignorance, but when you say all of them, do you mean six Friction Disks and and six Clutch Plates?
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Offline mlinder

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2009, 11:13:31 AM »
Yep, plus one 'B' friction disk.

Oh. And use only motorcycle motor oil.
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Offline IAmCitizenMe

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Re: It was all going great. Now, loss of torque.
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2009, 12:21:58 PM »
Quote from: mlinder on July 03, 2009, 11:13:31 AM
Oh. And use only motorcycle motor oil.

Lesson learned. The hard, expensive way. But learned, none-the-less.

Thanks
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