Author Topic: Help, I cannot stop myself! (Black Bomber content) (Read 11449 times)

zoo mob · « **on:** July 06, 2009, 07:58:13 PM »

Well, picked up my T500 Titan last week, and a deal too good to pass up just came up; a 1965 Honda CB450KO for a reasonable price. Complete, looks good etc. really, really want to keep it, but am afraid it will probably have to be flipped for some cash. We'll see once i get my hands on it. Do you guys know what these things bring on ebay? I can't even find any completed listings for them?

DollarBill · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2009, 09:01:02 PM »

Get rid of the titan and keep that one! It will be worth more.... This bike looks to be in great shape too for a '65. As we get greener and greener I think more and more people steer away from two strokes and I believe the T500 is a two-stroke. I could be wrong.....BUT you can't go wrong with that 450!

zoo mob · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:02:56 PM »

It looks like there may be a 1970 Yamaha XS650 coming in to the stable as well. Full details tomorrow.

Hush · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2009, 03:40:19 AM »

Oh do behave Zoomob

Cvillechopper · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2009, 03:50:45 AM »

I'll give you $550 for it right now

Seriously, I agree with everyone else. If it's a choice between the T500 and this one it's a no-brainer.

bikebitzofvt · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2009, 02:49:44 PM »

Have you ever ridden a Titan with some expansion chambers and a good porting job? They absolutely SCREAM!

The old DOHC 450 is the epitome of cool in it's own right.

IMO - it's time to get a second job and keep them all!

Hush · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2009, 03:16:19 PM »

Flick the 500 to Sporkfly, he needs some bits.

mlinder · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2009, 03:18:21 PM »

Mine.

Seriously, give it to me.

RRRToolSolutions · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2009, 07:40:26 PM »

Andrew, I'm seriously jealous. When I saw this posted the other day, I started to PM you and offer you $1,000 for the Bomber, but I need it like a hole in the head. You might go back and look at some of my history to find that 2 years ago, I restored a Black Bomber. I'm very passionate about that bike and to this day - it is my favorite restoration project. By the way, you have the later model 1966 or 1967. The front of the seat gives that away. There are no numbers published for numbers made and they were titled in the year sold, all are K0's - the last year model Honda did that.

Let me get this out. This is none of my business, but I would love to see this one kept original and restored. You have what I consider to be one of the "best" all-original examples I've seen. That bike has 99% of it's original parts, something that will help considerably when restored.

Here is the hard part - you are going to have to make a decision if you want to restore this bike - you will either have to repair, rebuild, refinish every one of the "original" pieces or get ready to spend big money. You simply cannot find/buy factory parts for these - nothing is interchangable, and there are many, many parts you won't find. Be careful just trying to "patch it up" - if you go to pulling stuff off and messing with it, me and others who collect these will lose interest -fast.
1) You could list it as-is and in the right market, I think get $1,500~2,000 for it as-is.
2) You can part it out and do it correctly and get $3,000 + for it. The darn seat alone is probably worth $500`600. The rims are not replaceable. The DID Diamond markings 36 spokes, 18" just aren't to be found. The speedo's go for $200~600 each. Tanks and panels go for $400~500, the list goes on.

If you wanted to restore it to like new with mostly factory NOS, I will tell you now that you will spend 350+ professional hours of engine and body restoration time plus in excess of $14,000 in parts - This 1967 cost me $20,000 and over 1 year to accomplish. I am not tooting my own horn, just want you to make an educated decission before you either destroy a piece of history or decide to restore it yourself with the idea of doing it for a few hundred, or worse from PartsNMore and cheap eBay reproductions. If money and skill are limited, put the bike in safe, dry storage until you can devote time and resources - I think they will become so rare, you'll get your money back 20 fold - I could see that bike bringing $10,000 in 20 years - just like it is.

Regards, Gordon

DollarBill · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:19:30 PM »

+Million on what Ilbikes said. This is one of the prettiest bikes ever made and you just don't see to many. AND to find one in that condition for $500 is just ridiculous! Like I said before...if you have to choose between the Titan and this one....NO CONTEST. The Titan just isn't in the same class IMO.

Ilbikes, you did a masterful job on yours....KUDOS! I love it.

bill440cars · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:52:43 PM »

These guys know what they are talking about, especially Gordon (Ilbikes) as he's restored on that was in real bad shape, REAL BAD SHAPE! That is really an AWESOME find alright! I am EXTREMELY jealous!

zoo mob · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:16:36 PM »

Well, I find myself in sort of a weird position, a friend of mine who has been looking to buy a project bike found this at exactly the same time I did, and we basically went in on it together. I'd love to keep it, but don't have the money to restore it the way that I would like to, and it seems like if we could make a little profit, it could jumpstart something bigger. I'm hoping to start buying, reconditioning, and selling bikes to supplement my income. Problem is, when soemthing like this comes along, I just want to keep it. I know important these bikes are to Honda's history in the U.S. and how valuable they are. My first bike a few years ago was a 69 CL450 K2, so I know how they ride too. Right now, we need to clean it up a bit, but I'm honestly almost scared to do anything to it so as not to change the patina (what is this? Antiques roadshow?) and will be fussing with it to get it running.

The guy I bought it from got it at a garage sale about 7 years ago and rode it a little bit until he put it up for a winter and it would not start in the spring. It has what I believe to be 6000 original miles, and great compression, does not seem to leak etc. I plan on pulling the carbs, blowing out the jets, maybe putting in some new points, adjusting the valves etc. and seeing if we can get it to go. I'll keep you guys updated, and post some pics tomorrow. Thanks for the advice and input.

RRRToolSolutions · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2009, 08:11:13 AM »

Andrew, I will be more than happy to list the items/areas that aren't right or are missing if it's of help to you. Please know that the offer is constructive and meant only to help you in your description or sale listing. The bike is really, really a nice find and the number of "Good and correct" parts is remarkable.

Regards,
Gordon

zoo mob · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2009, 08:18:47 AM »

I'm all about your help, no offense taken. You, or someone else here may want to look into this; I was tempted to try and pick up another Bomber here for $600, how would that be for a two-day run on bikes, unfortunately, its 700 miles from my home.

http://greenville.craigslist.org/mcy/1259094440.html

RRRToolSolutions · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2009, 08:54:46 AM »

Andrew, I am just finishing what should be my last bike for a long while. I had to do something recently that I didn't like - sell bikes. My garage is full and I had no where to park them, so 3 had to go to make room for a new 2009 ST1300 and my restored 1974 GT750 Suzuki.

I don't want nor do I need to start another project. If I bring one home, something has to go and I'm left with bikes that I poured months and months of sweat and time into - like kids now, I don't have any I want to let go. Thanks for the link, but "no thanks".

Yours -
Handlebars are wrong - no crossbar, those were used on the CL (Street Scrambler)-high pipe bikes, never the K0s.
Mirrors are wrong - they should be with short arms, 10mm threads with the larger 4" diameters
Seat had been recovered and the chrome buttons left off - those are needed around the bottom
Turn signals definitely no - those have been added. They were installed on the German and Sweedish imports, but never on the US/Canadian models. Oh, and they didn't look like those

.

Keep those exhaust - those are actually the correct K0 pipes. You will not find replacements. I tried to find NOS for more than a year and never did. I was outbid at $1,300 for a used set of rears - there is no telling how much they would have gone to if I had stayed in.

That's all I can see from the photos posted. How are your seat hinges? Those typically deteriorate and and the pin tubes seperate from the base. You will not find replacements. I learned that the hard way.

Gordon

zoo mob · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:38:48 PM »

Well, here's some more pics after I got it home and did a brief clean up. The tank has some scratches, but is original paint and cleaned up amazingly well with a little rubbing compound, you can see yourself in it. The seat appears to have the original hinges, took the turn signals off. There's a couple of screws missing inside the speedo, but it I believe milage to be original. Got new gas in it, new oil, and new plugs. It has spark, but have not got it to fire yet. The electric spark seems to have a stripped gear in it, or the battery is just not powerful enough.

Sporkfly · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:48:55 PM »

Well hell, you gonna send that Titan my way now or what?

zoo mob · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2009, 09:28:11 AM »

Got it running for about 15 seconds yesterday, but it has a sticky float and one of the carbs is overflowing, time to pull them and blow 'em out.

RRRToolSolutions · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2009, 01:48:18 PM »

Let me give you heads-up on preventing serious engine damage - DO NOT REV/RACE/or ride this early CB450 for at least 2-3 minutes of warm-up. The early models had low-volume pumps and it takes a while to get fluids up there when first started. If you crank it and start reving the pi$$ out of it or do any mid/high rpm - count on wiping the cam lobe faces and cam bearing surfaces right off the head and cams in a real hurry. Basically you'll be doing all of that with little or no oil on their surfaces. The K1 and later models had the bigger piston in the pump. The pump on these is really odd for an oil pump - instead of an impeller, these used a piston and rod set-up, amost like the engine it's self. It goes back and forth and displaces oil each stroke.

There is nothing wrong with the K0 pump - as long as you let the engine warm up gently. Once the oil is up there and the oil is warmed - the pump keeps more than enough up there above the head to keep things happy. If you race it while it's cold - a few times and you'll have shavings and burnt lobes showing their ugly face. The problem was serious enough to ruin several top-ends, so Honda re-tooled the pump for the silly folks who just wouldn't listen.

Regards,
Gordon

zoo mob · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2009, 06:41:25 PM »

Well, she's up for sale on ebay as of 10pm tonight. Got her running pretty decent, and rode a few miles, and now she must go. I hope I can afford to keep the next one I come across. Thanks for the input and comments. Feel free to PM me if you have any interest in purchasing her.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260445666574

RRRToolSolutions · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2009, 07:27:32 PM »

Andrew, you need to add the words Black Bomber to your description. The key words would be K0 (zero) CB450 Black Bomber.

I have a saved search that I've used for years and it did not come up - It will be interesting to see what it does. The economy stinks, but hopefully a collector who wants their own piece of history will pick her up. I would never have put a buy it now so low, but let's see.

Gordon

fastbroshi · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2009, 08:40:40 PM »

Nice bike, it's amazing how original it is. Gordon what did you mean by the DID Diamond remark? Didn't a lot of the cb bikes' 18 inchers have this type rim? At least I think mine is, I know it's got that DID mark in a diamond logo.

zoo mob · « **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2009, 01:11:40 AM »

"Black Bomber" is in the title, I'll add it to the description too. Thanks for the heads up, I'll try to up the buy it now, don't know if I can with the auction active.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:39:03 AM »

auctions over, did you get the buy it now ??

zoo mob · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2009, 08:34:09 PM »

Auction was canceled and reposted sans buy it now. Wish me luck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=260445783726

RRRToolSolutions · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2009, 04:16:31 AM »

$1,500 and 11 bidders in it's first day - aren't you glad you took that buy it now off? The buy it now has never helped me sell a bike. It might make one go quicker, but it sets a ceiling of what you think it's worth and just seems to take away from real bidding.

I'm guessing $2,800 is where she'll land - not bad for a $500/time investment.

Gordon

mcpuffett · « **Reply #26 on:** July 16, 2009, 02:23:27 AM »

Wish we could find bikes like that over here

, good luck with the auction , cheers Mick.

dagersh · « **Reply #27 on:** July 16, 2009, 12:43:56 PM »

Zoo Mob -

Sorry to see her have to go, I love my Bomber!

Gordon, thanks for all those great tips on letting her warm up. Always let my bikes warm up slowly, but now I will absolutely make sure never to rush her!

Gersh

bucky katt · « **Reply #28 on:** July 16, 2009, 08:13:33 PM »

Quote from: Ilbikes on July 08, 2009, 07:40:26 PM

Andrew, I'm seriously jealous. When I saw this posted the other day, I started to PM you and offer you $1,000 for the Bomber, but I need it like a hole in the head. You might go back and look at some of my history to find that 2 years ago, I restored a Black Bomber. I'm very passionate about that bike and to this day - it is my favorite restoration project. By the way, you have the later model 1966 or 1967. The front of the seat gives that away. There are no numbers published for numbers made and they were titled in the year sold, all are K0's - the last year model Honda did that.

Let me get this out. This is none of my business, but I would love to see this one kept original and restored. You have what I consider to be one of the "best" all-original examples I've seen. That bike has 99% of it's original parts, something that will help considerably when restored.

Here is the hard part - you are going to have to make a decision if you want to restore this bike - you will either have to repair, rebuild, refinish every one of the "original" pieces or get ready to spend big money. You simply cannot find/buy factory parts for these - nothing is interchangable, and there are many, many parts you won't find. Be careful just trying to "patch it up" - if you go to pulling stuff off and messing with it, me and others who collect these will lose interest -fast.
1) You could list it as-is and in the right market, I think get $1,500~2,000 for it as-is.
2) You can part it out and do it correctly and get $3,000 + for it. The darn seat alone is probably worth $500`600. The rims are not replaceable. The DID Diamond markings 36 spokes, 18" just aren't to be found. The speedo's go for $200~600 each. Tanks and panels go for $400~500, the list goes on.

If you wanted to restore it to like new with mostly factory NOS, I will tell you now that you will spend 350+ professional hours of engine and body restoration time plus in excess of $14,000 in parts - This 1967 cost me $20,000 and over 1 year to accomplish. I am not tooting my own horn, just want you to make an educated decission before you either destroy a piece of history or decide to restore it yourself with the idea of doing it for a few hundred, or worse from PartsNMore and cheap eBay reproductions. If money and skill are limited, put the bike in safe, dry storage until you can devote time and resources - I think they will become so rare, you'll get your money back 20 fold - I could see that bike bringing $10,000 in 20 years - just like it is.

Regards, Gordon

folks, pictures dont even come CLOSE to doing Ilbikes' black bomber justice, what a beautiful motorcycle.

1974CB750rider · « **Reply #29 on:** July 16, 2009, 08:48:29 PM »

I just sold a 70 model last week for a $1000.00. I had to do a lot of work to it though and just barely broke even. That bike you got should bring in good running condition arond $1200-$1800 but I've seen them go higher on e-bay. I highly recomend getting it running good and make sure everything works. I know their not cheap but good tires would help to. Above all make sure you get the bike as clean as possible. If your wheels have some rust on them try to clean it off with some steel wool.

fastbroshi · « **Reply #30 on:** July 16, 2009, 09:51:33 PM »

The amazing thing is that bike is in Michigan, and not a speck of rust that I can see.

RRRToolSolutions · « **Reply #31 on:** July 17, 2009, 06:06:09 PM »

You cannot compare a 1965~67 Black Bomber to a 1970. They are not the same bike nor the same buyer.

Let's see how she goes.

Gordon

zoo mob · « **Reply #32 on:** July 17, 2009, 08:20:37 PM »

There's not really any rust, but the front wheel is pretty pitted. Overall, this thing is sweet, and I really do wish I could keep it, but like I said, it was purchased 50/50 with a friend and he wants to sell it, so its going. I think I'm going to try and keep my deals solo, it feels nice to have ultimate say in what happens. I honestly think I might like the 68 and 69 models a little better. It looks like I may have a nice chunk of cash to invest in my next bike, take a look at my other auctions, one has been a pretty lucrative surprise.
68-69 450

CL450 K0 aka CB450D

zoo mob · « **Reply #33 on:** July 20, 2009, 07:30:29 PM »

Well, it sold for $2000 to a guy in Austrailia who called me right away and seems pretty legit. I'm a little let down by the price, but I made a nice profit, and he seemed super excited about the bike.............on to the next one.

RRRToolSolutions · « **Reply #34 on:** July 21, 2009, 05:06:27 AM »

Yep, that's $800 less than I had figured it would go for. It still is a nice bike and will be an investment for him - even with his $1,000 or more shipping cost. It's the economy. Last summer that bike would have done a lot better, but it had to be sold now - you did alright for yourself though.

Gordon

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Author Topic: Help, I cannot stop myself! (Black Bomber content) (Read 11449 times)