Topic: I think I buggered it up

[Geeto67]

ok so I got my dyna S installed and now something funny happens. When I use the starter button the bike does not start until I take my finger off the button. It can sit there and crank all day but until I release it won't start. Starts with the kicker just fine. thinking it might either be the switch or the solenoid. Ok guys, give it yer best shot.......

[Inigo Montoya]

OK just so I have it right. When holding the button it DOES crank just not start right? Only theory I have is that the starter manages to draw just enough power that the spark is not strong enough to burn the mix. When you let it go, the engine spins for just slightly longer but there is more juice available for the coils and off it goes. Best I can think of right now.

[Geeto67]

you have it right. the bike will crank over strong but there is no spark until i let go of the button. I have checked the handlebar control and it seems fine but in my head there is this nagging feeling that the button is some how grounding out the kill switch.

[mattcb350f]

I've seen solenoids do this, or sometimes just loose connections on the solenoid.

 Matt.

[Laminar]

Use a multimeter to see if your coils are getting any voltage at all when the starter button is pressed. The starter button also disconnects the power from the lights when pushed, so there's always a possibility that some wires got mixed up and the power to the ignition is being turned off when the button is pushed in.

[CB750F2]

The most likely reason for not firing is because the battery voltage is dropping too low when using the starter motor - as per Vinman's Brew. I suggest that you make sure that your battery is fully charged, in good condition and connections are clean and tight. However, you could test your suspicions about the starter button upsetting the kill switch by jumpering the starter solenoid with a short iece of wire instead of using the starter button - ignition switch will still need to be turned for the bike to fire. Pat

[Geeto67]

battery is brand new and fully charged. I also replaced a ground strap and the negative battery cable and cleaned the corrosion. I am hesitant to look at the battery this time.

[Inigo Montoya]

How about the positive line? I know corrosion usually takes place on the negative but I have seen it on the positive as well, just not on a cb. Just a thought.

[chrislib]

Sorta sounds like a bad start/run relay on a Mopar (like that actually helps). What year bike? On a wild guess (and not having a schematic in front of me) does the starter safety unit interface with the coils at all?

[eurban]

Continuing with Laminars angle . . .What wire did you connect the power supply for the Dyna S?  Sounds like you might have tapped into a power source that is shut off when the starter motor is engaged.  It should be very simple to to connect a multimeter to the Dyna S's power line and see if it's power is interrupted.  

[Geeto67]

goign to do that this weekend. thanks. I though I hooked it up as per the instructions but I will check again.

[Geeto67]

I figured it out. The instructions say to hook the power source to the brake light lead (constant power). I had it hooked to the Taillight lead (which shuts off when you hit the starter button).

but now a new problem has developed. I think my coils have gone bad. one of my cylinders is intermittent, took the bike out for a nice long ride and any time I poured on the power she was a triple, but at idle she sounded like a 4. not sure if this is a carb issue or electrical (my guess is electrical and one of the plug leads is going to pot).

[Laminar]

I figured it out. The instructions say to hook the power source to the brake light lead (constant power). I had it hooked to the Taillight lead (which shuts off when you hit the starter button).

Awesome.

but now a new problem has developed. I think my coils have gone bad. one of my cylinders is intermittent, took the bike out for a nice long ride and any time I poured on the power she was a triple, but at idle she sounded like a 4. not sure if this is a carb issue or electrical (my guess is electrical and one of the plug leads is going to pot).

Make sure your valves are adjusted properly and that your plugs are clean and gapped properly. Try this tip to make sure that your plug boot connections are good.

What do you have for intake/exhaust? Are the carbs jetted to match? Have the carbs been pulled apart and thoroughly cleaned recently? Was this a problem before installing the dyna? Is the timing set correctly?

[Zaipai]

I just got done installing a Dyna S on my CB750K,

Any one have a link to a Dyna? I keep seeing it on the fourms but not sure what it is or why it seems so popular..

Thanks .. Newbie

[Geeto67]

didn't just do a new battery but new plugs, brake switch, and oil also. I think I will start with the wires. if they test bad I have a set of accell coils and wires I have been itching to try out.

[Laminar]

Any one have a link to a Dyna? I keep seeing it on the fourms but not sure what it is or why it seems so popular..

Thanks .. Newbie

Here's your link. It replaces the mechanical points system with an electronic trigger for the ignition system. It is supposed to be more accurate and more reliable because it doesn't have moving parts to wear out.

[Geeto67]

ok, so I checked the valves, and they within spec. Pulled the airbox and made sure it had not obstructions or blockages.

So I decided to do the wire trick and well.....I think my wires are shot. When I took the cap off this black gel came oozing out. it looked awful and smelled worse.

[Inigo Montoya]

That might be a good possibility. Maybe the wires are creating just enough resistance that while the starter spins, there is not enough juice to get thru the wires. Never heard of wires doing that though!

[Laminar]

That might be a good possibility. Maybe the wires are creating just enough resistance that while the starter spins, there is not enough juice to get thru the wires. Never heard of wires doing that though!

Uh...the bike runs. My suggestion worked. The current problem has nothing to do with the bike starting.

[Laminar]

So I decided to do the wire trick and well.....I think my wires are shot. When I took the cap off this black gel came oozing out. it looked awful and smelled worse.

Time to toss on those new wires and coils.

[Inigo Montoya]

gee so sorry I missed that. been gone the last few days, mr. perfect.

[Geeto67]

now now, you kids play nice......

yeah the only thing I can think of is that the wire shielding has liquified. Granted I was working on the bike after a solid 30 minute ride but still the wires are not supposed to be liquid filled.

So, the accel coils I have, there is no way to tell if they are 3 ohm or 5 ohm. will I do some damage to the dyna S if they are 3 ohm and I run them anyway?

[Inigo Montoya]

I am pretty sure you are fine with 3 ohm coils.
Here is a pdf on the dyna S on a gl1100
http://www.classicwingclub.org/frankspage/pdf/DynaS.PDF

[Laminar]

now now, you kids play nice......

yeah the only thing I can think of is that the wire shielding has liquified. Granted I was working on the bike after a solid 30 minute ride but still the wires are not supposed to be liquid filled.

So, the accel coils I have, there is no way to tell if they are 3 ohm or 5 ohm. will I do some damage to the dyna S if they are 3 ohm and I run them anyway?

You won't do any damage, but it's not a good idea with the charging system.

Specifically:

My first-hand experience with Dyna 3 ohm coils and Dyna-S ignition on 1977 CB550K:  They use too much power for the charging system.

I had a friend with a 75 CB550/DynaS/Green 3ohm coils and despite cleaning every conection and keeping the headlight off during the day, it never did charge well -- constantly ran down. It became a matter of hooking it up to the battery tender every night and kicking it to start it most of the time.

The 550 has a 150 watt alternator when you spin it to 5000 RPM.  Stock bikes with the standard headlight on, draws about 120 watts for the whole bike.  The dyna setup [Dyna S with 3-ohm coils] adds almost 60 watts to this.  You will be relying on your alternator beating the factory minimum spec to keep the battery charged.  Some do, some don't.  Regardless, recharging will be very slow if you are lucky.

You can add a resistor to the three ohm coil to reduce the load on the alternator, though.

[Inigo Montoya]

Geeto, I do not recall what bike you have. I thought it was a 750. If it is, 3 ohm will be just fine.
if 500/550, then not really if all stock. You could change the electrical system using led lights and that would help some.