Topic: bye bye spark plugs?

[Inigo Montoya]

http://www.carthusiast.com/ford-to-use-lasers-instead-of-spark-plugs-to-ignite-and-burn-fuel-504.html

Now if this works, I wonder if we can convert!

[mystic_1]

Spark plug..... a few bucks.

Laser ignition system.... many bucks.

Unless it suddenly increases performance 200% and reduces emissions 80%, it won't catch on I'm thinking.  ROI seems poor.

mystic_1

[mlinder]

Dunno what ROI is, but this kind of technology can make a big difference in engine design (sadly, not much of anything for our old bikes).

For instance, the combustion chamber can be designed without a big ol' plug hole in it, which is good for many improvements in design.
Also, being able to ignite multiple spots in the AF mixture  is a big plus (we already try to do this with 2 plug bikes. BMW kinda pioneered this back in the mid 70's with their r90s racebike.)

I think it's cool.

[mystic_1]

The idea is undoubtedly cool.

ROI = Return On Investment.  Basically I think the cost of the system would outweigh the benefits, for production use.

mystic_1

[Laminar]

The idea is undoubtedly cool.

ROI = Return On Investment.  Basically I think the cost of the system would outweigh the benefits, for production use.

mystic_1

Well one of the benefits is obviously the marketing advantage. "Your car uses spark plugs? My car runs on ****ing lasers."

[mlinder]

Lasers are relatively cheap at this point.
I'm guessing they could pinpoint an ignition spot using multiple lasers. Would be pretty cool. I mean, yeah, it would, initially, be more expensive than a plug setup, but all this crap gets cheap after 3 or 4 years of production. Initial return would undoubtedly be low, if not a loss, but after 7 or 8 years of production, it would probably pay for itself, then start making money.

[Cvillechopper]

The idea is undoubtedly cool.

ROI = Return On Investment.  Basically I think the cost of the system would outweigh the benefits, for production use.

mystic_1

All technology takes a little time to come down in price to be a feasible production option but you have to start somewhere.  I'm interested to see what is done with it over the coming years.

<Edit>  You beat me to it Mlinder...

[HavocTurbo]

I agree with mlinder, it probably wont be very good for our old bikes, but can you imagine the future of new bikes?

Despite what they are doing with cars, motorcycles seem to be at the edge of engine design whenever there are massive changes.

Maybe you can some day custom build your chamber/fuel system based on applications. Right off the showroom floor!!

Might put a lot of aftermarket engine companies out of business, but that kind of chamber flexibility would be sweet.

[goon 1492]

Now all we would need is some transparent steel(can't find the website right now ) from some nano tech so we could have see the lazers make the gas go boom.
Here is some transparent aluminum, half the battle so we can see the lazer if it all happened...

http://www.rense.com/general20/transparentalum.htm




Sorry not tryin' to hijack here but I gotta share one more link, kewl stuff. almost as kewl as the lazer.
http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=4554

[Raul CB750K1]

How about sharks with frigging lasers?



(if you haven't seen the Austin Powers movies you won't understand)


Now seriously, even if the benefits are lower than the costs, it is a good example of thinking outside the box, that in my book is a good thing.

[CBGhia]

got a spare DVD burner?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/756433/laser_flashlight_hack/

[Inigo Montoya]

I would be willing to bet once this system is perfected or at least equal to spark plugs, cars will switch.
As for good on our bikes, maybe not a stock engine but it could bring out some extra on a modded engine.

[Cvillechopper]

got a spare DVD burner?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/756433/laser_flashlight_hack/

Now that is cool.  I wonder if you could use a larger flashlight and get more "bite" out of it (burn through walls, etc)?  Might be worth looking into.  I'd love to be able to trim sheet metal that way

[Laminar]

As for good on our bikes, maybe not a stock engine but it could bring out some extra on a modded engine.

I'm not sure that you understand what implementing this system would encompass.

[Inigo Montoya]

It would take a complete redesign of the combustion chamber at the least. Any more than that would be hard to say as none of us here has worked with a system like this. It could be next to impossible to do or it could actually be very simple. Who knows, something like this might be able to even use the existing spark plug ports. I doubt that would be the case but NONE of us has any authority pertaining to a system such as this so it would all be guessing.

So maybe the better question is, "does anyone know what it would take to do this?'

Answer, only the people working on the system and they wouldn't care.

[Gordon]

Physical combustion chamber placement issues aside, how would one program the focus points of the laser to coincide with the ideal combustion points in an engine it wasn't designed for?  

I like advancements like this, but I'd be happier if they were spending their R&D money on cars that don't require gas at all so that we'll have some left to burn in our bikes 20 years from now.  

[mystic_1]

I like advancements like this, but I'd be happier if they were spending their R&D money on cars that don't require gas at all so that we'll have some left to burn in our bikes 20 years from now.  

BINGO!


mystic_1

[HavocTurbo]

Figure with enough backing it could be mainstream in about 5 years in cars.

Then about 5-10 years after that it could be mainstream in bikes. Racing tests first.  

But the aftermarket could literally explode with all the brand new options for your heads.

I personally would like a new billet head with about a million chamber designs tailored to my specific application. Would give me a reason to have the 500 bikes I want.

[Gordon]

Fuel injection has been the standard for car engines for about 25 years, and it's been around for much longer.  How many choices do we currently have for converting our bikes to F.I.? 

[mlinder]

I started designing a steam engined bike.. but would still require propane to heat the water.

I dunno, an electric powered bike, just doesn't have the same allure of an internal combustion engine...

[Laminar]

Fuel injection has been the standard for car engines for about 25 years, and it's been around for much longer.  How many choices do we currently have for converting our bikes to F.I.? 

Is there a market for it? It wouldn't be too incredibly hard for someone to adapt a MegaSquirt setup and sell that, but would anyone buy it?

[mlinder]

Yeah, I wouldn't. Carbs work fine for these old bikes. I mean, even with FI, we aren't going to get anywhere near the 180hp per litre the new bikes (with FI) are getting. The combustion chamber design just isn't efficient enough.
I think, for new bikes, though, it could be well adapted.

[Inigo Montoya]

Hard to say on a market. If the system was reliable, I am sure some would buy it, especially if it gave a performance boost over stock. I would love to get an fi set up as long as the frame itself did not need to be modded. it would take care of having to sync and the mix could be better controlled. But I do not have the time or money to invest in a system like this or the fabrication tools.

The whole point though is that advances like this are cool, even if we can adapt them.

[Gordon]

I dunno, an electric powered bike, just doesn't have the same allure of an internal combustion engine...

Agreed.  That's why I'd prefer they work on non gas-powered engines for their future cars so we can keep our gas burning engines going a generation from now. 

[CDeforrest]

Fuel injection has been the standard for car engines for about 25 years, and it's been around for much longer.  How many choices do we currently have for converting our bikes to F.I.? 

I'm converting my '78 CB550 to FI using Megasquirt (Microsquirt).  Just a pile of parts at this point - GSXR600 throttle-bodies, injectors & fuel pump. Will probably use an external pump so I don't have to cut up the tank. Putting the electrical system on a diet will be step 1, however, as we all know the charging system is weak at best.
 
As far as a 'kit' goes, everyone's application & preference is slightly different, beyond the MS ECU (which you can purchase assembled or in parts), it's a matter of what you have on hand or can find on ebay.
I'm doing this because I'm tired of the *(&@($# carbs, basically. Improved reliability is actually what I'm after over increased performance, but I have no doubt that hp & mpg will be side-benefits.