Topic: Lower Speed Limit = Lower Morbidity and Mortality ?

[shacolaid]

Couple things, first, they are motor vehicle crashes, not accidents. Accidents imply that no one is at fault, and every crash has a cause and effect. Someone is always at fault, whether it's the driver blowing a stop sign, or the person who did not properly install/fix the brakes.

Second, why do the Germans still have the Autobahn? A 4 lane highway with an unlimited speed limit. What are their crash statistics? Per 1000 drivers, how many die in crashes? Speed is certainly a factor in crashes, but so is alcohol, cell phones, and plain inattentiveness.

[Bob Wessner]

A bit dated, but I would bet the findings, if updated, would likely be similar today.

http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html

[Laminar]

Couple things, first, they are motor vehicle crashes, not accidents. Accidents imply that no one is at fault, and every crash has a cause and effect. Someone is always at fault, whether it's the driver blowing a stop sign, or the person who did not properly install/fix the brakes.

"Accident" implies that, at surface level, no one intended for it to happen.

[Inigo Montoya]

Shac, you are driving and your tire blows out and pulls you into another car. That would be an accident. You did not intend for the tire to blow and neither did the other driver. Things happen that no one can control. Of course this is not pertaining to speed limits but it does show that "accidents" do happen. Sure it is still cause/effect but it is not a controlled cause. So still classifies as accident.

[Rocking-M]

A bit dated, but I would bet the findings, if updated, would likely be similar today.

http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html

stated in the study,

# Accidents at the 58 experimental sites where speed limits were lowered increased by 5.4 percent. The level of confidence of this estimate is 44 percent. The 95 percent confidence limits for this estimate ranges from a reduction in accidents of 11 percent to an increase of 26 percent.

# Accidents at the 41 experimental sites where speed limits were raised decreased by 6.7 percent. The level of confidence of this estimate in 59 percent. The 95 percent confidence limits for this estimate ranges from a reduction in accidents of 21 percent to an increase of 10 percent.

Vinmans I have no problem dealing with natural selection, btw, if my sons, either one of them, gets in a car
with anyone or themselves alone they expect speed. In the family are,
a Porsche Cayman, 99 Vette, 99 Ducati, and a couple of BMW's. My Spider is the slowest in a straight line,
but give me some twisties and hold on. We all like speed.
As Hunter said, "It's better to be shot out of a cannon than squeezed out of a tube."

[shacolaid]

Shac, you are driving and your tire blows out and pulls you into another car. That would be an accident. You did not intend for the tire to blow and neither did the other driver. Things happen that no one can control. Of course this is not pertaining to speed limits but it does show that "accidents" do happen. Sure it is still cause/effect but it is not a controlled cause. So still classifies as accident.

Vinman, I disagree. Was that tire properly inflated? Did the tire have good tread? Were the tires manufactured properly?...etc.
Trust me, I am not an attorney. I am a flight nurse. I have seen enough crashes and picked up enough children to know that very, very few times are they ever truly "accidents" Blame can always be placed on someone. "Acts of God" happen very infrequently when driving.
Worst crash I ever saw. Father and his triplets are driving in their van. Truck pulling a wood chipper is improperly hitched going the opposite direction. No safety chains. Wood chipper breaks loose and kills two of the children and the father. Third child is badly hurt and we fly him to the hospital. He does well and is discharged to home after a long stay in the hospital. Mother is left with one child. Turns out the guy was drinking and speeding. B@st@rd.

[Retro Rocket]

Vinman, I disagree. Was that tire properly inflated? Did the tire have good tread? Were the tires manufactured properly?...etc.

Now you are going off track, accidents DO happen, you can have the best tires money can buy and still get a blowout, nail on the road or even a sharp rock or even a bloody meteor could land on your lap causing an accident, who would you say caused that. I agree that more often than not , "accidents" or "crashes" do happen due to inattentive drivers or inexperienced, {or just plain stupid} people in charge of a vehicle, over confidence is also a HUGE problem, especially with young drivers. I saw a current affairs show recently where the host interviewed random young drivers and the majority said they were "good" or "excellent" drivers, they then proceeded to put them through an advanced driver course and at the end they were a bunch of very humbled kids....NONE passed any part of the course......they were all licensed..........scary stuff.


Mick 

[Inigo Montoya]

Rockin, some pf the slowest cars I see on the road are sports cars. I do not judge speed on car type. Did you know a 1982 nissan stanza with a 4banger and 3 speed auto will do 100? Neither did i till I did it. Or a 1982 chevy halfton pickup with an ugly ass topper with an old early 70s 350 will do 120? The floating feeling you get at that speed is kind of unsettling.
Point is most cars out there are capable of going faster than a person skills.

[shacolaid]

Not that I want to see this happen, but should the government just limit top speed on cars and trucks? German automobiles are already electronically limited, just electronically lower the top speed.

That would be scary, but during the 70s when the 55mph speed limit was posted nationally, it was more for fuel consumption than preventing crashes, right?

If the government wants to try and increase average fuel mileage to 35mpg, lowering the national speed limit back to 55mph would help greatly, and electronically limiting top speed would certainly help also.

Granted, that would not change speeding on roads with less than 55mph speed limits.

Scary Stuff indeed.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Just saw on the BBC that the UK has something like 3.5 million CCTV cameras in operation or some crazy number like that.

Can you you say Orwellian? Good, very good.

[Inigo Montoya]

You know deep down that you are surprised it has not already happened! At least i am.
I guess I am not so much for mandating speed limits unless they are stupidly high maybe. Once gas started to get over $3 a gallon, I slowed down anyways. I saved quite a bit of gas going 65 instead of 75. Besides that, more time to react at night so less chance of road kill. But I do feel that maybe limits should be lowered or better yet, more training with refresher courses every license renewal.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yeah, the old "We're taking away your rights for your protection" argument.

Been there, done that, no thanks.

Maybe if they could tie it in to terrorism like drugs in some bull#$%* way, maybe then they could lower the speed.

"If you go above the speed limit, you are aiding and abetting terrorists!!!!!!".

Uhhuh, yeah.

[DammitDan]

Driving is considered a privilege, not a right.

Therefore, limiting the speed limit on highways cannot be a violation of "your rights".

You don't have to like it (I certainly don't), but it's the truth.

[MaxFrisson]

The UIC study focuses on highway safety and traffic fatalities due to post-NMSL speed limits.Let's take a look at some government statistics, which exist in great abundance. Specifically visit the websites of the National Highway Traffic System Administration and the Federal Highway Administration.

The NHTSA has established the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS); there you’ll find the following data:

U.S. Highway Fatalities per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Traveled
 
2008: 1.27
2007: 1.36
2006: 1.42
2005: 1.46
2004: 1.44
2003: 1.48
2002: 1.51
2001: 1.51
2000: 1.53
1999: 1.55
1998: 1.58
1997: 1.64
1996: 1.69
1995: 1.73
1994: 1.73

The fatality rate has steadily dropped over this period to reach its lowest total in 2008.  As another benchmark, the national highway deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled in 1980 was 3.35. In other words, traffic fatalities have dropped by 62% in less than 30 years. Technological advances in vehicle safety, as well as other factors such as highway improvements, over the years play a large role in the reduction of highway deaths.
 
But back to the 55 mph speed limit proponents. Here is a quote from the Federal Highway Administration on their Speed Management page:

Speeding is a safety concern on all roads, regardless of their speed limits. Much of the public concern about speeding has been focused on high-speed Interstates. The Interstate System, however, actually has the best safety record of all roads and the lowest fatality rate of all road classes. Almost 50 percent of speeding-related fatalities occur on lower speed collector and local roads, which carry only 27.9 percent of the total vehicle miles traveled in the United States. Collector roads usually have legal speed limits of 55 mi/h or less. Speed limits on local roads are often 35 mi/h or lower.
 
 
Lowering the current speed limits on the nation’s interstate system to reduce fatalities is unrealistic, not only because the government data and analysis don’t support that conclusion, but who among us expects the driving public to slow down to 55 mph when they know they can drive safely and appropriately at much higher speeds on the nation’s highways?
   
 

[Duke McDukiedook]

I know that Dan, it is a privilege; I was using that analogy to prove how stupid lowering the speed limit would be.

Road designers design pretty much everything for the 85th percentile when we design roads in the US.

Most interstate roads are designed for 100mph travel (except in urban areas).

Lowering the speed limit on interstate highways in rural corridors would be pointless.

[Rocking-M]

Rockin, some pf the slowest cars I see on the road are sports cars.

but that's because neither my sons nor I are behind the wheel.

Motorcyclist where slowing my youngest down in this video he snuck in. 
you'll have to fast forward to about 36secs for the action.

[Caaveman82]

I don't think that because some one is too cheap or cannot afford to replace their tires when they need to and then decide to drive like an idiot and can't stop in time because of said tires that I should have to slow down. I will admit I drive way to fast, but I replace my tires every six months. Maybe that is a little excessive, but I deem it necessary. Brakes get done once a year no matter what. Rotors and pads. Calipers every three years unless they are looking beat up. I understand there is more to it, but I can promise you that probably 60%-70% of most collisions could be avoided with proper maintenance. Far more than half of these vehicles I see in the body shops have bald tires and no brakes. They are also the one who hit the other vehicle.

[Rocking-M]

I don't think that because some one is too cheap or cannot afford to replace their tires when they need to and then decide to drive like an idiot and can't stop in time because of said tires that I should have to slow down. I will admit I drive way to fast, but I replace my tires every six months. Maybe that is a little excessive, but I deem it necessary. Brakes get done once a year no matter what. Rotors and pads. Calipers every three years unless they are looking beat up. I understand there is more to it, but I can promise you that probably 60%-70% of most collisions could be avoided with proper maintenance. Far more than half of these vehicles I see in the body shops have bald tires and no brakes. They are also the one who hit the other vehicle.

ditto, oh sure something can break but most of the time it's operator neglect. Just the other day I was out with the Spider and
she developed a nasty pull to the left when hard braking, the rubber line had collapsed on the right side and the calipers where not
being operated simultaneously. No wreck cause I don't panic with trivial stuff even when over the ton. But, it happened because I had put off changing those lines but not now, nice new stainless lines. 

[sangyo soichiro]

This is a gun thread in sheep's clothing...   

Except RetroRocket and TwoTired actually agree on this one. 




I myself won't mount an argument, but I'll say that I'd personally hate for the speed limit to decrease.  I always get the tickets in the 40 and 30 mph zones.  Holding the ticket, I look around and wonder why the limit is so low on that road.  You all know the road I'm talking about - we all have them where we live.  I never get a ticket in the 55+ zones.  No, I wouldn't want the speed limit to be reduced.  Next thing there'll be stop signs at every mile.  Then speed bumps every 20 feet.  Then helmets required in cars. 

[Rocking-M]

what, you don't wear a helmet in your car. 

[Inigo Montoya]

Did I say to lower the speed limit to 20 freakin mph? No but I will say that if you need tires every 6 months when most need them every couple years, then you need to evaluate your driving or drive on a track. I keep my vehicles in safe condition and it does not require replacing parts every couple of years. I would have to say you either are constantly bruning your tires and then slamming your brakes, or you get lousy parts. Even in my brake stand and cookie days I never needed to replace tires that often. Oh well, your money not mine.

As for interstates being rated for 100 mph, come here, especially in the winter, you aint doing 100. But then kansas is different in its landscape.

Do what you want. I still feel that 90% of people out there cant handle the speeds they drive. So either do away with 85 mph speed limits or require more training and refresher courses. I am sure we ALL can benefit, yes even you caave and rockin. Otherwise you would be in nascar or formula.

[Retro Rocket]

Driver training and education is what is needed, not lowering of the speed limit. In Australia the state with the lowest accident death rate is the Northern Territory, up until recently it had NO speed limit on the long open highways, if your car did 200 well thats what you could do. It will be interesting to see what happens now that they have speed limits, oh and coincidentally, it also has the highest alcohol consumption in Australia......not relevant but interesting..!!


Mick

[Industrial Cafe]

oh God, Eldar just stop posting.  It's a topic on speed limits, not thunder.

[Inigo Montoya]

Why are you telling your self to stop posting?

Strange people these days.

[Laminar]

I understand there is more to it, but I can promise you that probably 60%-70% of most collisions could be avoided with proper maintenance.