Author Topic: could timing make plug 2,3 foul and keep 1,4 nice (Read 3820 times)

andy8190 · « **on:** July 18, 2009, 09:54:15 PM »

just wondering if bad timing for cylinder 2,3 could make those 2 plugs get carbon fouled while plugs 1,4 appear to be in good shape? Bike is a 74 cb550

Spanner 1 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2009, 09:56:44 PM »

Quick answer...NO.!, not timing.

Soos · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2009, 10:08:38 PM »

no, but a failing coil might.
Mabey the points badle set for that coil?

You got a stock setup, or running a dyna?

Glad I switched to a aftermarket system personally.
Hondaman has quite the setup for the 550/750 from what I have read if you want to look into that.

l8r

andy8190 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2009, 10:39:14 PM »

yeah i have a stock set up. I just ordered the Hondaman set up, he is shipping it after the weekend. I am also going to order a new points plate assembly and throw that on before hand.

What is a points badle set?

andy8190 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2009, 10:53:22 PM »

also today i got some plugs from honda and the guy gave me DR7EA, what is the difference between that and D7EA. He said they would work for my bike but i have been using D7EA

B.O.X.N.I.F.E. · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:03:56 PM »

Resistor plugs, you need the D7EA's if you have resistor caps on your plugs.

andy8190 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:08:21 PM »

i dont know if i kept that damn receipt to take those things back

could these plugs be causing just 2,3 to foul for some reason?

Until i cleaned the air filter all 4 were fouling but now just 2,3
I am also thinking 2,3 points could be part?
Needle position on these two?

Hush · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:07:09 AM »

Air filter wont affect just 2 plugs but a bad coil or bad points will definately do it.
Check your points, check that the power wire to the points is not grounded where it connects to the back of them.
To test this, remove either #2 or #3 and connect a spare plug to the lead, earth it and now with the ignition switched on, manually open and close the points, if you don't get a nice fat blue spark jumping you need to check points/coil for those two plugs.
It's going to be either coil or points that are doing this to you.

andy8190 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:15:00 AM »

ok i am hoping its points. Like i said i ordered hondamans ignition, just waiting to get it, and i will order a new points plate setup. Hopefully that will fix it.

I would test the coils but my wires are to shower to switch plugs. anyone know away around this?

andy8190 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:22:20 AM »

if i have to get new coils would you recommend stock or dyna?

Hush · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:24:51 AM »

"to shower" I hope you mean too short!

Anyhow to do the test I told you about you dont need to switch anything just remove the plug cap off #2 and screw a spare plug in, leave it on the side of the motor and switch on ignition, open and close the points with a screw driver and see if you have spark....no spark...eithe points or plugs are at fault.
Repeat for #3
If you do have spark then maybe the plug fitted is at fault so change them out.
Sometimes the earth on the coils becomes dirty and you need to remove them and clean behind them so they get a good ground, this can affect the size of spark you get.

Hush · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:29:38 AM »

Just read your original post, have you been altering your air/mixture screws recently?
If #2 and #3 have had their mixture altered (or if you altered #1 and #4) then they will carbon up as they are running richer than #1 and #4, because the easiest one's to adjust are the outside ones we tend to fiddle with them more often, reset all back to factory setting whatever that is and see if this helps.

andy8190 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:31:22 AM »

haha yes i meant to short. Ok i will try this tomorrow. Is there a pic out there or link showing what the spark i am looking for looks like. I know i am look for a blue arch but im not sure what a good size is

andy8190 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:33:25 AM »

no i havent messed with idle screws lately but i will go back and make sure they are all good. I let the bike run at idle for about 15 or 20 mins and took the plugs out and all 4 looked really well. It wasnt until i went riding around for a while in the 4000rpm range and came back home that 2,3 were fouled and not 1,4

Hush · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:42:43 AM »

Sometimes if you don't give the bike a good thrashing the plugs will foul due to type of gas used etc.
I tend to nanny around a bit at lower speeds and I have to take the old girl out into the country for a good thrashing to clean the plugs at a good speed and temperature.
4000 revs aint much for an in-line 4 cylinder 550cc bike, find a nice straight bit of road and give her a fistfull, then when you get home check your plugs.

andy8190 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:52:02 AM »

ok i will do that tomorrow, how long do i need to ride her at high rpms? i just road around for like 20 mins at 4000 and my 2,3 were solid black and we are talking brand new plugs, but being DR7EA might contribute to that

Hush · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:57:58 AM »

I know changing plugs on our old bikes is a pain but could you put the old plugs back in (all 4 of them) before you ride?
I'm not sure why you have resistor plugs in there but for a standard configuration you wouldn't want them.
Some hard riding in the 5-6000 rpm range should do it, ride it like a full sized motorbike and less like a scooter, these were powerful growling machines in their time and still hold more fascination than modern rice rockets.
If the bike was not missing or farting about when you rode it last then maybe you have very little to worry about and clearing her throat will do the trick....best of luck.

andy8190 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:03:06 AM »

ok thanks, i got the dr's because the guy at the counter at the honda store told me "they are the same" last time i listen to him, i got 10 of them to so cost me 35 and dont think i can return them with no receipt.

Let me explain why i was riding at 4000k. I was trying to see where my plugs were getting fouled so i let it idle and they werent fouled so i crossed off mixture screws. So then i wanted to check the next stage slow jets, thats why i rode around at that speed.

Hush · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:21:11 AM »

OK Andy that explains the 4000rpm

Seriously chuck the old plugs back in and take her for a good ride then remove and see.

andy8190 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:23:13 AM »

will do, just have to guy buy new and the correct plugs tomorrow

cycleman · « **Reply #20 on:** July 19, 2009, 08:48:41 AM »

The plugs won't cause your issue, unless they are not firing. Either the DR7EA or D7EA will work OK, unless you find the engine is overheating and then you might want to go for a colder plug. In fact in the Canadian models they recommend a DRESL ( the L is a half of a heat range colder - plugs gets ride of the heat faster). Trim the ends of the plug wires ( 1/4" ) & reinstall them in the plug boots.

If you have a timing light & a good fan, start the bike & check firing at all plug wires to see if you can see if you are getting good spark.

The D7EA is actually for a cold climate and in my owners manual they recommend the D8EA for the 78 CB750F model in the US.

If the valves are adjusted properly, timing is OK & on, then sync the carbs. That could be part of your problem as when you are syncing the carbs you are actually moving the slide up or down to affect the air/fuel mixture. Also make sure the pilot screws are at their stock setting & you are running the stock air box. If you got some mods on carbs ( ie: pods ) then you may have to dig further.

Remember that any adjustment of one part of the carbs circuits will affect the rest. They all work together.

andy8190 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:55:44 PM »

ok just got back from the ride with new and correct spark plugs in and pretty much the same thing. 1 looks pretty decent, 2 and 3, still carbon fouled, and 4 looks really nice and tan. I am going to put fixing it on hold till my new hondaman ignition and points ehplate comes in to see what that does to the problem. I think i want to replace my spark caps and wires atleast using the ngk splicers after that.

How hot are the spark plug caps supposed to get?

WFO · « **Reply #22 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:09:10 PM »

Quote from: andy8190 on July 19, 2009, 01:03:06 AM

ok thanks, i got the dr's because the guy at the counter at the honda store told me "they are the same" last time i listen to him, i got 10 of them to so cost me 35 and dont think i can return them with no receipt.

Let me explain why i was riding at 4000k. I was trying to see where my plugs were getting fouled so i let it idle and they werent fouled so i crossed off mixture screws. So then i wanted to check the next stage slow jets, thats why i rode around at that speed.

Sell them on here or ebay according to hondaman the resistor plugs are fairly desireable and hard to find for some folks.

andy8190 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:45:32 PM »

do you think anyone on here needs them? if so i wouldnt mind going by and buying them for whomever and shipping them out. As long as i am reimbursed

WFO · « **Reply #24 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:53:27 PM »

Well post a thread to sell them also i see completed listing on ebay where they got 4.00 per on a buy it now so try listing all 10 with free freight to the lower 48 of course only and see what happens, it's better than getting stuck with them.

andy8190 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:57:58 PM »

yeah might be worth a shot

Hush · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:31:09 PM »

Plug caps should have hardly any head apart from what they pick up from the motor.

andy8190 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:33:24 PM »

im not sure how hot the motor would make the caps but they sure were warm today, close to melting the rubber of the wire it seemed

Hush · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:38:54 PM »

I see you are going to do some mods with Hondaman stuff, might pay to leave it until you do those, but as someone else on here suggested a good carb sync can make an enourmous difference to these in-line 4's.

andy8190 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:45:46 PM »

yeah i will do all that as well when the hondaman comes. i guess just deal with carbon fouled plugs till then.

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Author Topic: could timing make plug 2,3 foul and keep 1,4 nice (Read 3820 times)

cycleman