Topic: Honest or dishonest? you tell me

[74cb750]

Here is a situation I have run into a few times this past year.

Someone sees my website, or finds me here and asks for a
frame with a title. After they/he/she/it find out the price of
shipping they want just the head with the plate VIN number.

Usually this is followed or precluded by a sob story about:
1-they bought a junkyard bike,
or 2- they can't register their bike because of...blah blah blah
or 3-their girlfriend's father's son has died and they lost the title...etc etc

Now......my lawyer said it is usually someone whom has stolen
a bike and needs a new valid VIN.

What do you think?
michel

[R. Hykawy]

My guess would be dishonest, or just do not want to go through the hassle to get the title.

[Buffo]

i would sell them the title and the headset or just the title or whatever part(s) they wanted from the frame with or without the title .

..but if all they want is the title and the headset I  would charge them the same for the title and the whole frame including shipping regardless if they got the whole frame and title or just the head set and title

unless it is a moral decision... what do you care why they need the title

Buffo The Magnificent

[clarkjh]

Or, just say you need the old VIN before you can sell, then just have the local law enforcement brance do a stolen search.  If clean you can sell with a clear mind, if not point the law in there direction.

James

PS, I could use the headstock and title for an 82 GS400

[Sam Green Racing]

OK.......Title I guess is the same as our registration documents but tell me, what is a head set ?....Are we talking the head stock with the frame number cut away from the main frame.

It's just that we speak a different language in England

Sam.

[Buffo]

if you want all that work and paper chacing go ahead but I say if they have an ill gotten bike and are willing to pay top dollar for a title...

who the hell would steal a 30 year old honda...theives would steal something that they could get some real money for on the internet...I highly doubt they are stolen bikes...more than likely backyard hand shake deals with no title...

hey...dont you need a job???  why the hell would you turn away money???  Ask you wife what she thinks....

[mick750F]

   If they really want the frame and title they should be willing to pay for it.

   If not, you could be just involving yourself in somebody elses mess. Who needs somebody elses mess? Aren't our own enough? Should you pay for someone elses laziness or cheapness? There are companies that provide titles for bikes without titles. Probably cheaper than I'd be willing to sell a VIN for.       

   Buffo...As for who would steal a 30 year old Honda. Anyone who realized what the broken up parts might be worth that's who. Two years ago my neighbors caught someone looking under the cover of my bike and chased them off. They were in a pick-up, three of 'em...that's all you need and...poof, it's gone.

Mike

[oldbiker]

Buffo, next time someone tries to get a title for a bike which is perhaps stolen, it might be your bike!! Would you still say 'why turn away money'.

... what do you care why they need the title

As I said, it might be your bike.

[Don]

As someone who has spent more than a few years in law enforcement, I would say that the possibility that they want the vin plate for a stolen bike is a good bet.  Also as one who had a bike stolen (and it was 10 years old at the time), I know that older bikes do get stolen all the time.  We all know the value of the parts for our bikes and ebay is a common venue for stolen merchandise. 

That is not to say that there may be some legitimate cases where the bike is an old garage/barn find and the original title has long since disappeared, but I believe every state has a procedure for obtaining a legit title in those situations.  Some people always look for the easy was around the system.

The morality/ethics of the situation are something you have to decide for yourself.  I know that in the case of my stolen bike, it is only maintained in the computer system as stolen for 5 years, unless you renew the listing.  It has been 10 years and I still keep renewing the listing, ever hopeful that some day, someone will attempt to register the bike.  If that happens, I will have a moral/ethics decision to make of my own.

Funny part is, I only paid $350.00 for the bike and then put a battery in her, but it was a mint Kawasaki 450.  She looked like a "mini-chopper" and I looked like a gorilla riding a football on her, but she was a great bike.  To me it isn't the money as much as the principal of the thing.  I HATE a thief.

[Geeto67]

wait a second....if we were talking cars then yes I'd say there is a probabliliy that it is stolen. However we are talking motorcycle that are 30 years old and can be bought for under a grand in some cases. I have plenty of bikes without paperwork titles and none of them are stolen (in fact one of them I got from the nassau county police impound without a title). Sometimes I look for bikes without paperwork since I know the laws of NY and know how to get it registered. It is common in this hobby to have bikes that are not stolen and sans paperwork because people let the bike sit for 30 years in their garage and lose the paperwork, or the move and lose it. After a few years the vehicle drops out of the system and they can't just call up the capital and get a replacement. Since more and more states don't take title company titles anymore it is getting popular to grab frames with titles again.

Oh, the honda chopper guys usually need these for the hommade choppers. Those old amen frames didn;t come with MCOs and it used to be you were allowed to transfer the vin number to the new frame so long as you destroyed the old frame. Now adays you can't really do that and are supposed to have the bike inspected but without an MCO so they do it the old way and hope they don't get caught. Buy a titled frame and vin and stamp it into the custom frame. Since they buy the headstock from you they know the numbers part of the frame is destroyed.

I'd say most of the time it is legit on these 30 year old bikes. If it was a new cbr then I would be suspicious since those bikes get stolen a lot more often.

[skamania19]

I'm with Don and for the same reasons. There are some folks out there who would steal a dead fly from a blind spider. Michel, find out what's legal in your jurisdiction, then do what you think is right. Just be careful. If your spidey senses tell you something's up, it probably is. 

[6pkrunner]

I have 5 CB750s in the garage that do not have paperwork with them. While the person in question may or may not be recreating or building a stolen bike, asGeeto67 states, its probably a low dollar deal. While that may not make it any less dishonest, its not like the automotive world where over $2 million are riding on 1/4 inch numbers.
But to answer your question, I would refuse to cut the head off and sell just that for the same money. Down the road a welded on head may show up on stolen goods and if it gets traced back to you...
Yes a reframe is the same thing, but its not like you knowingly sold numbers only to make a vehicle legit. You sold the entire frame. Splitting hairs but court cases are made or broken on less.

[74cb750]

clarkjh, good idea, only problem the Luietenant at the State Police barracks does not like me much.
Long story. She's stupid, doesn't know the law and became purturbed when it was pointed to
her by a civilian and backed up w lawyer notes....whatever.
Anyways, I will call ahead and make sure she is not there.

Legally, I COULD be held liable in the State of States,,,,ta da Vermont if I sold just the plate.
So guess if the guy wants the frame w/ tilte
1-get his old VIN #'s
2-figure shipping to someplace called Alcatraz, California...
3-and go Greyhound.

Thanks for all the input.
michel
PS had my 6 year old Suzuki GT250 stolen in Florida (in 1978? dates are fuzzy from
being zapped by multiple women in bikiniis at a young age), so, it's not just new abikes stolen, for sure.

[clarkjh]

Michel

I know the feeling.  The little GS400 was given to me as junk, none runner and missing parts.  First thing I did was go the the RCMP and did a VIN trace to see if it was stolen, then to the DMV to try and get a title for it.  DMV said I had to have the last know regestrar of the bike sign it over.  Got as far as tracking down his mother, told her what I was doing, she preaty much told me to go to hell, and no she would contact her son for me.

So, I have some GS400 parts for sale.

James

[Buffo]

I agree that some will steal anything...that is why I have full coverage on everything I own...I live by the mexican boarder...but even Ebay-ed you are only going to get so much for cb parts...unless they are sandcast  ...one could get more for just the fairings off of a newer croth rocket bike...I just dont see people looking for old, low dollar bikes to steal and put on the road for their own use or even selling them...may be a joy ride bike or a field bike but it is a lot of trouble and potential jail time for a $1000 bike...

I would bet that 90% of them ar Barn Queens or low dollar, hand shake deals...unless you live in a 3ed world country their is simply no real market for low dollar, stolen bikes...too much trouble  for not enough pay off...