Author Topic: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing  (Read 5847 times)

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2009, 11:33:17 AM »
Ok, I did some speed reading over the pages of this thread.  If I'm asking questions already answered, have some patience.

Item 1:
Has the bike ever run properly with these carbs... that you have witnessed?

Item 2:
Just for clarification, your carbs have idle mixture screws.  They are supposed to meter the flow of fuel that is already premixed with air.  Air screws directly control the air being mixed with the fuel. 
I also have not seen those mix screws that fit flush with the carb body.  They all stuck out on the ones I've seen.  While that part doesn't really bother me, the part of it that inserts into the carb body does.
For one thing when those screws are lightly seated, the tipp usually protrudes a bit into the carb bore.  Can you verify that.  The function need here is the ability to totally shut off the fuel flow from the pilot circuit.  If, for example, you have the wrong adjustment screws, perhaps that are too short for the function, this would allow more fuel to enter the carb bore than was expected per design.  Extract one of those IMS  and post a picture and or measure it's over all length.  Is it physically long enough to reach the carb bore exit?  While you have it out, verify there is an o ring, a washer, and a spring behind that adjustment screw.

Item 3:
I recall a picture that you posted showing the float height adjustment that allowed gravity to compress the float valve spring pins during the measurement.  This is not correct.  The spring pins must have full extension, the valve tip must be resting in the seat orifice, the float tab must >>just<< touch spring pin, and the bottom portion of the float must be at the proper distance from the carb bowl mount surface.  Please verify these components are aligned in this way.  FYI, I usually asjust the floats with the carbs on their sides, assuming they are off the bike.  But, they don't need to be off the bike to adjust properly, as long as you pay attention the correct parts alignment/orientation.

Item 4:
Also, about the float system.  Test for basic operation.  With the float bowl off and the carbs fed from the fuel inlet, can you manually work the floats to verify they shut off fuel?  When this occurs, are the floats about parallel to the bowl gasket surface?

Item 5:
Assuming you've found no discrepancies above...
Then it is time to move on to the slide needle/mains fuel circuit.
Have you verified that the main emulsion tube pocket in the carb body can get a free flow of air from the air jet?

Have you verified that the slide needle jet orifice is present, unworn, and unaltered?
Have you verified that the main emulsion tube bleed holes are clear?
Have you verified the main jet size is correct and the orifice diameter matches the marking on it?

That's all I can think of right now...




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Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2009, 01:17:03 PM »
Thanks twotired that was very nice of you. Never had her running good 1 ride in 18 years and that was 10 years ago. PO had her since new. I will pull the carbs off tomorrow and see what I can find. Never opened the top side to look at the tubes. and such. The floats do shut off the fuel if I have them apart we can not blow thru them. Talked to the PO and he said Everything on there was original and he had it at a Honda shop after he put the mac exhaust on her. Just pulled a air screw measured 29 mm tip of needle to end of screw slot. I will take some pics and maybe we can go from there really appreciate the help...luder

Huskyoff

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2009, 02:38:42 PM »
I took some pics for comparison. This is off a 78 CB750k. First is all the way in. 2nd is 1.5 out. Third is the screw out. (The O-ring/washer stayed in there)






Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2009, 03:08:54 PM »
Huskyoff- thanks, that is the same screw I have- small shoulder--to be continued

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2009, 04:30:34 PM »
Screws located @ front of carb are fuel screws as that is what they are regulating,screws on air box side of carb are air screws as thats what they regulate,your fuel screws do not look like CB750K 78 as they stuck out of carb body,the screw is a fuel regulating screw,you can tell by the tip,air screws have blunt tips,did someone put in wrong fuel screws? Bill
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Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2009, 01:08:22 PM »
I believe there right. pulled the carbs back off and if I seat them they barely protrude through the carb body- but I do have a rip in my accelerator pump (could be my problem? I am gonna message twotired....luder

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2009, 01:47:04 PM »
I don't have any of these carbs apart right now to verify screw lengths.  I'm going by memory of the last few times I worked on these carbs.  That's why I mentioned looking into the carb bore to see if the tip protrudes into the carb bore (where the slides close), when the the screw is lightly seated.    If you can close the circuit, you should be able to adjust it's flow when backed out.  I really don't care if the screw slot sticks up or not.  The business end is the pointy bit and it must be able to seal off the fuel delivery when fully seated.

You already know a rip in the accel pump is not good.  The pump diaphragm has two mickey mouse ears that seal fuel flow passages for the pump circuit.  The inner holes on the these "ears" should be the same size as the passages they seal.  I had one that was mashed/swelled nearly closed.  Drilling it out solved my throttle response problem by restoring full accel pump output.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2009, 01:57:59 PM »
There is only a hole on 1 of the ears as I can tell- new pump ordered on ebay, the needles do seat up into the carb throat, can just feel them pushing thru...thanks luder

Offline Inkscars

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2009, 02:15:18 PM »
Luder, from no on I recommend Z1 for little carb parts. he's very inexpensive and ships quick quick quick!
he stocks accel pumps jets and needles most of the time for my bike. I'm about to get a speedo cable from him for 12 bucks. can't beat that cept with a stick.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2009, 02:47:56 PM »
I believe there right. pulled the carbs back off and if I seat them they barely protrude through the carb body- but I do have a rip in my accelerator pump (could be my problem? I am gonna message twotired....luder

I'm kinda surprised a ripped diaphragm didn't leak fuel outside the carbs.  Only one side of that rubber is supposed to be "wet".   Maybe the plugged ear was the supply side to the pump?
Either ear blocked would seem to cause fuel starvation rather than flooding.

Given the symptoms you've reported previously, I think I'd still be looking for things that cause over-delivery of fuel or under delivery of air premix.
But, hey, I've been wrong before.  ???
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Inkscars

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2009, 03:11:14 PM »
I demand to know WHEN, TT, you have EVER been wrong.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2009, 03:14:18 PM »
You mean, besides when I thought I was wrong, but wasn't?

 ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Huskyoff

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2009, 03:22:13 PM »
I read the thread again... the only thing I can think of (that has not been mentioned) is if the fuel was being sent down the other hose (breather tube) next to the fuel inlet on the carb, instead of the correct line.

Offline Inkscars

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2009, 03:28:28 PM »
Wouldn't that be crazy if that was right? man. I don't know if i would cry, or laugh. If that's what was going on, I'm sending you another beer luder.
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Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2009, 03:36:50 PM »
OK motorcycle enthusiast, did I f(&k up which line is the supply line big hos or small ( front side or rear) Ink I could use a beer right now.......If that was right I would be an idiot for sure...luder

Huskyoff

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2009, 03:49:00 PM »
The black one is the fuel line, red is the breather.  I doubt that is the problem. But.. I just wanted to make sure. It would explain some of your issues...

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« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 04:05:51 PM by Huskyoff »

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2009, 06:10:45 PM »
I agree on fuel screws,TT nailed it,if when seated you can barely see tip,they will adjust no matter what the other end looks like,usually @ 2 turns ,Keep at it ,you'll get it! Bill
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2009, 07:10:56 PM »
+1 with TT on his point #3.......float levels are too high, high gas level in carbs will make bike way rich across the board ( idle/slow jet and main jet ).
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2009, 06:50:57 AM »
I don't have a red hose-large hose to the front and smaller behind it which I assume is the breather. I will set my floats again after I receive my new acc. pump-Maybe a ride before to long.....luder keeping on her

Huskyoff

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2009, 08:18:36 AM »
The smaller diameter tube is on the front, larger (fuel line) is in the rear. You don't have two tubes on the carbs?

Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2009, 08:47:59 AM »
  Husky this is the pic of my carbs when we purchased this bike- The small tube I am holding goes to the center of the carbs above the rubber hose connectors, right in front of that is my larger hose which goes to the solid rail in front. The larger one in front I am hooking up to my petcock, Correct?  I can charge up my camera and take a top pic if needed, luder

Huskyoff

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2009, 09:32:38 AM »
Yes, that sounds correct.

Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #72 on: August 06, 2009, 12:36:58 PM »
OK we got my accel pump today. Did not move float heights as of yet. The new pump has 2 holes where as the other one, one hole was mashed shut. She still idles very sluggish but if I crack the throttle she has some balls now, any ideas-do you think I should still adjust my floats? Hotter plug maybe? Advance or retard timing? I just have a real lag on the idle. By the way I now have the air screws out 3 turns, any ideas,,,,,,luder

Offline luder

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #73 on: August 06, 2009, 01:18:34 PM »
Well now we are back to fouling #3 plug, ah but at least some glimmer of hope....luder

Offline Inkscars

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Re: Luders project-cant finish this dam* thing
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2009, 01:24:53 PM »
Are you running DE8s and like regular unleaded or what luder
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