Topic: POR-15 tank sealing underway. updated with ride report...

[fmctm1sw]

I got my POR-15 this week and I've followed the instructions to a tee today.  The Marine Clean did not remove much rust at all.  That was kind of expected, it was touted as a "degreaser."  I'm a little disappointed with the metal ready though.  I still have a lot of rust in my tank after almost 4 hours (instructions said 2 hours max).  I'm now wondering if I should rinse and dry as directed and seal.  I'd hate to have this stuff peel off.  Toilet bowl cleaner appears to be a much better rust remover.  Perhaps the better stepos would have been:  The Works toilet bowl cleaner, metal ready (to provide a zinc coating), then sealant?  And now I wonder if I should just let it sit over night or pick up some The Works tomorrow.  Not a total failure, just not removing the rust like I thought it would...

[NickC]

I used royal purple toilet bowl cleaner. It took more rust off in a minute than a touted rust remover took off in hours.

[fmctm1sw]

Here's some photos.  Sat all night.  The bottom of the tank is really clean but anything other than that still has rust like what you see pictured.  The sides are worse.  I'm going to use toilet bowl cleaner if I can find anywhere open today.  BTW, a 47-50mm freeze plug works perfectly as a seal for the gas cap.  My petcock photo is an example of how mucked up my tank was.  Reserve didn't flow at all.

[HondaMan]

Great tip on the freeze plug!
I'm going to get one for the tank I'm working on now.
Thanks!

[timdhawk]

for what its worth i sprayed an entire car trailer w/ Por-15 and the metal ready stuff is not meant to get rid of or make the rust disapear... it chemicaly converts/neutralizes the existing rust so that it can be sealed in/under the Por-15 coating. What your tank looks like is what my "rust" looked like on the trailer after i sprayed the metal ready. I think your okay...

[Hondamagic]

I've always used Muriatic acid on the insides of tanks, about $3.00/gallon. You can dilute as much as you'd like, or use it straight. Let it sit for a while, and avoid the fumes.Just make sure you remove the petcock and any aluminum parts as it will disappear if you don't.

[OldSkool]

I'm going through the same process this week, I think I'm going to use the electrolysis process first and then the POR-15 kit. Maybe if you could get your hands on a 10 amp battery charger you could try going that route then applying the POR-15 kit.

Good luck

[super pasty white guy]

OldSkool-

That's exactly what I did on the 550 and it worked out quite well.  Probably took a bit longer but I felt better about not having a load of acid sitting in there for a long time.

spwg

[fmctm1sw]

Here's the follow up.  And Timidhawk thanks... noted.  I decided to go the "Works" route.  I left that metal ready in there all night.  I drained it into an empty container, figuring I'd use it's "zinc coating" qualities after I put the toilet bowl cleaner in it.  The Works completely stripped the inside of the tank.  The bottom, sides and some color out of my shirt too.  That stuff is no joke.  I diluted it with a little bit of water, not much and shook it around.  About 20 minutes later I poured it out and rinsed with hot water.  I put the metal ready back in it for about another 20 minutes.  Drained and rinsed again.  Hit it with a blow dryer for a good 30 minutes or maybe even longer.  Slight flash rust but not much.  The instructions note the sealant is designed to bond over the flash rust.  

Now for the sealer.  The 350F tank is especially difficult (compared to the thread on type petcocks I would assume) since the bottom is completely flat.  I sealed up the tank and poured it in, and sloshed it around for a while.  I drained the excess as directed, it ended up filling the sealant container about half way back up.  And I'll tell you, this stuff will get everywhere.  It wanted to drain along the bottom of the tank because it's completely flat.  If it gets on your hands, make sure you don't touch anything you don't want to look like it was painted with silver paint.  All in all, I was a lot more confident with the sealing stage.  Cure time is 96 hours though.  Looks like it will be next weekend before I get it back on.  

In summary, I think my money would have been better spent on a container of "The Works" toilet bowl ($1.50 I think at Walmart) cleaner and a can of US Standard Sealant from POR-15.  Maybe next time...

[Frankencake]

I was just going to say that once you put your POR in your tank you will forget about whatever is under it.  Get the grease out and use the metal ready, then use the POR.
I used it for the first time last year and I was an immediate convert.  Kreem can go blow as this stuff is far superior.    I know what you are talking about it getting everywhere and it does not come off.  Paint your tank second after you line it and you will not be reduced to a whimpering baby when you spooge POR all over your new paint.
I used a sacrificial syringe and some fuel line to get the excess out of my tank.  The next time I use the kit, I will do two tanks at once just to use it up.  There is a lot of waste when you are doing one tank.  It just so happens that I have two tanks to do this week.  I am going to try the electrolysis on one of the tanks just for fun.  I like the idea making electricity do the work.  That's why there are all of those little holes in the walls of the house at about knee level.  They are for doing work.

[fmctm1sw]

Got back on the road today after my petcock issue noted in another thread.  The tank sealed good from what I can tell.  I rode it about 20 miles with no trouble.  The next test is retracing the route I rode when it died on me...

[judder]

Thanks for the insight on POR-15 and The Works toilet bowl cleaner. I've got a POR-15 kit ready to go, hopefully tomorrow but not likely. I bought the stripper version because the tank had been sealed before. So if I understand correctly use the toilet bowl cleaner first then start with POR-15? Is there any chance of eating through the metal on the tank with all of these chemicals? My tank seems to be in fairly good condition, unless there is something hidden down deep.

Hey how are you guys disposing of the POR-15? I've been saving the thick plastic bottle that apple juice comes in but I really don't know what to do with it after that. I guess the dump will take it right? I hope so.

Thanks again

Jud

[fmctm1sw]

That toilet bowl cleaner is very caustic.  My POR-15 kit had patching material in it that I didn't need.  The toilet bowl cleaner->rinse->hair dryer->sealant is what worked for me.  Timidhawk mentioned that I would have been OK with just that metal ready and sealant but I prefered to see bare metal.

[Sporkfly]

I'm surprised that it didn't remove much rust, to be honest. When I did my POR-15 kit it went from a nice orange in the tank to bare metal. The marine clean actually did most of the work, and I was left with some surface rust after flushing it with water. When I used the metal ready it brought it back to bare metal with a nice etch on it.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but I'm a little surprised considering how well it pulled the rust from my tank. I don't expect the sealer to flake or peel either, seems much more sturdy than a Kreem kit.

[HondaMan]

I will be doing two 750 tanks shortly with my new POR kit: thanks for all the tips!
One of my friends added a step (he said it was in his instructions) to his Triumph POR job: he threw in a handful (BIG handful) of 1/4" nuts, washers, and some 1/2" long bolts when he had the acid/cleaner part inside. Then he shook the rattlecan for 30 minutes in all directions to help "scrape" the heavy rust he had. When he drained it, it was amazingly clean inside (and nasty in the Home Depot bucket, outside!). He decided to repeat the process, and when he was done, it almost looked like my cb750 tank, which has had some flash rust in it for 20 years. He went ahead with the sealing step, though, and has had a perfectly operating fuel system since. (Or course, it's a Triumph, so the electrics are a different story..  ).

[Ace]

If you tank is very heavily rusted, the bolts idea works great.  Another method of rust removal is using molasses and water.  2 Parts molasses to 7 parts water.  Mix it up well so there is no molasses when you run your hand over the bottom of the container/bucket/big tub and put you rusty parts in there.  Smells a bit so put it down the back yard or away from your window close to annoying neighbors is fine.  You will get a crust formed or some thick foam type looking stuff on the top after a few days, just remove it.  If you leave your part in there for too long, weeks usually, depending on the metal it can eat it away.  I've done tanks, mufflers, engine internals etc along with rusty tools etc.  When you take it out of the tub, wash it off with water and maybe give it a scrub for the really difficult bits.  When you let it dry, it will flash rust because the metal surface will be clean.

I used this method, then followed the por 15 directions on 4 tanks with varying degrees of rust on the inside and the end result was always the same, great.

Now I have found a bubble on the paint on the bottom of my K1 tank.  I'm thinking there might be a pin hole starting to develop.  This tank hasn't been por 15.  Looks like I'll have to wrap it up very carefully so I don't get the 'silver paint' look on my gold tank.

[HondaMan]

Wow, ace, you're full of good ideas! 

I'm looking at acquiring another CB750 for rebuild (another Hondaman Special), and it has had the left engine cases off for several years, outside. The alternator and shifting equipment is heavily rusted. I thought I'd have to get a sacrificial engine for it, but first I'm going to try your molasses method. I have a VERY annoying neighbor, so the plan should work for that, if nothing else. In fact, I think I'll just go get a bucket today and try it without the bike parts, just to see how it works out.

[Ace]

I never would have believed this method until I tried it.  It's a cheap way to clean parts if you can afford the time (amount of rust and temperature) to do it.  Colder climates still works, it just takes a few days longer.  I've done the parts you are talking about with great results.  Make sure you wash the parts especially oil passageways out when finished.  It does stain your hands a dull orange color and smell a tad.  Clean the parts up as best you can first (remove grease and crap) and this will cut down the time it takes.  If the parts you put in eg. a muffler that has a lot of rust in it, it will remove the rust to the good metal.....however much is left.  Keep checking the parts to ensure that the good metal isn't eaten away.  You can rub your finger to remove the rust or brown goo off it or clean it and put it back in to finish the job.  After you have done a few parts you'll understand some of the things I'm talking about.

Another good thing about this process is that you can reuse the molasses mixture again and again.  I've stored it for 6 months, just put a lid on it otherwise the water will evaporate and away you go.  I don't have any pictures to post of my rusty pieces, I did it before I found this forum.  If you get the chance, post some pics.  Enjoy. 

[B.O.X.N.I.F.E.]

I just orderd some of this because of an unstopable rust particle problem.

I've been using POR stuff for years, if you have some left over place plastic wrap from the kitchen over the can, then secure the lid over the wrap. Put it in the fridge, it'll greatly extend the shelf life.

I worked off of one quart until it was gone this way, no problems.