Topic: Can I trust this engine?

[lone*X]

Long story but I will try and make it as short as possible.  Last September my 550 engine was sitting in the garage floor (with the clutch cover off the right side) when the IKE surge put a couple of feet of salt water through the house/garage.  As soon as I had an opportunity I emptied the salt water out of the bottom end and over filled the crankcase with what I had at the time, clear kerosene.  Rolled the engine around a bit to get the kerosene distributed thoroughly.  Then put the engine on a shelf and have spent the last 9 months working on the house.  Just took the engine down and dropped the oil pan.  I was surprised how clean the engine was inside.  The pan had a little sludge in it but the oil screen was completely clear of debris.  The primary chain, trans gears, etc., all look good and there is no roughness in the rotating assemblies.  This engine had salt water in it.  I guess I did alright in my hurried attempt to save it from becoming a pile of rust.  Now the question.   Do I need to do anything else to the lower end other than maybe another cleaning inside with kerosene?  I know when the time comes to fire it up again I will change the oil and filter again after just a good warm up and run through the gears.  Do you think I am OK trusting the bottom end and transmission?  Engine was previously well cared for (bought it new in 1975), 28K miles, good compression when I removed it from the frame last year.

[gane]

Lone, No way of being sure, But offer this.  My Dad, was a career  Coast Guardsman. and over the years saw many outboard motors dropped over the side. and on occasion would endevor to to salvage re-captured motors. his rule of thumb, after 48 hours sumerged, walk away. a motorcycle  engine may be different, but would still rec. complete dissassy / clean/inspect. w/ cyl/rings and ball bearings/races being 1st in line of possible failures. sorry G

[honda750k]

You should ideally disassemble completely, and inspect everything.  you might be ok, but I cant promise anything honestly.  A thorough inspection is the only way to know.   

salt water is HELL on aluminum components. it can and will make them corrode like you wouldnt believe. 

[lone*X]

I hear ya.  This is why I ask for opinions.  Actually I have found no corrosion of the aluminum cases.  Guess there was a good coating of oil on everything for the few days while water set in the lower end.  The house rebuild is still taking up a lot of my time so I was hoping to avoid splitting the cases.  Guess I need to take my time and move cautiously.

[Patrick]

I say fire it up. What have you got to lose? I didn't hear anything about the cylinders getting full of saltwater.

BTW. I was in Galveston for a few days a week before Ike. I was there again for two days in February. Wow, what a difference. One of the women I was with in September grew up in Galveston and made a remark about how inappropriate she thought it was for there to be a Hooters on Seawall. I guess God agreed. When I went back I saw that it had been completely erased right down the the piers.

Patrick

[bryanj]

The 550 dont take long to fit and get running, or at least not as long as a 750!! so i would see what it sounds like---all you will be out is a few hours labour

[kayaker43]

I vote for teardown,.. unless you really don't care about it. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean there aren't rust spots on bearing races etc.

Aside from salt, I'm guessing it was pretty murky water full of dirt and sediment. I've worked on submerged marine engines too. The customers who didn't tear down thought they were fine but all died an early death. Don't even turn the engine over, just buy a gasket kit and go at it.

[JLeather]

If the engine didn't stick while setting, and it looks good inside, I say fire it up.

[Alan F.]

Instinct tells me that if it rotated smoothly you should be alright. You may want to run a few cans of seafoam or something in there during that first oil change interval.

Personally I think I'd change the oil and filter and add seafoam, and install a magnetic tipped oil drain plug. Then point a heat gun at the engine as I slowly turned it over every few minutes, get the engine up to what seems like operating temperature and keep it there for a while, while you turn the engine by hand with fresh oil/seafoam inside, then after a while of slowly rotating the hot engine, turn off the heat and drain the hot oil out, let it cool and change the oil and filter again. Inspect the used filter and magnetic drain plug for any signs of debris, and make your decision to tear down or install and ride.

I'm the cautious type though, this may seem like a high degree of overkill, but it's cheaper and quicker than tearing down a possibly good engine.

[OldSchool_IsCool]

New oil, fresh gas, fresh plugs, clean points, fire 'er up!  Decide after that.

[Bodi]

Well... you could immediately do a rebuild and install new bearings et al, or put it in and run it: if it dies, you'll have to do a rebuild and install new bearings et al.
What's to lose by trying? a few things...
I would take the rocker cover off and have a look up there. If the cam chain, cam, and valvegear aren't crusty they shouldn't be damaged by running. The cam and its bearing journals (non-serviceable, writes the head off) could be destroyed beyond repair in a short time f run with bad corrosion. The lower end and transmission - with replaceable bearings -would be relatively undamaged. If the piston pins are corroded you can ruin the pistons and rods. You say the bores look good, but shoot a teaspoonful of motor oil (2-stroke oil is good for this) in each hole and kick it over a few dozen times.
Salt water in an engine is bad but not immediately terminal. It takes a while to get through the internal oil film. Flushing with clear water first is the best first step to get the salt out, followed by some water miscible liquid like alcohol to absorb the water, and then a solvent miscible with the alcohol, then motor oil.
Check the top end, run it up to operating temp with clean oil and filter then change the oil and filter, ride it maybe 200 miles, then change the oil and filter again. Either it will be fine or it will eat its big end bearings relatively soon.

[J.Webster Designs]

I vote for putting it in and running it. I run 2 stroke seadoos and the procedure for a flooded engine is to pull plugs, drain fluids, refill fluids and run. you even went so far as to flush the thing out with kerosene.

[cycleman]

I think its safe to say that if the engine has been submerged in salt water for a few days it has been damaged.  The engine will no doubt run but for how long.  I don't think you could ever really trust it.  I agree with the tear down crowd.

In water cooled bikes & cars once antifreeze gets into the oil, the bearings don't last long.  Antifreeze is not nearly as corrosive as salt water.

[754]

I would first set it on the side with clutch cover off.

 I am thinking seawater and Kero dont mix, and you would see what is still in there.
 
Then inspect what parts you can see with clutch out, like look for rust spots on bearings. Use a cylinder light on the bores. Take cam cover off.

 If it all looks good, run it, but dump the oil at 50 miles, pour it over a piece of cardboard and see what is coming out..

[lone*X]

I say fire it up. What have you got to lose? I didn't hear anything about the cylinders getting full of saltwater.

BTW. I was in Galveston for a few days a week before Ike. I was there again for two days in February. Wow, what a difference. One of the women I was with in September grew up in Galveston and made a remark about how inappropriate she thought it was for there to be a Hooters on Seawall. I guess God agreed. When I went back I saw that it had been completely erased right down the the piers.

Patrick

Before that pier restaurant was a Hooters it was the Ocean Grill, my favorite Galveston eatery.  Hooters was OK but the Ocean Grill was a great place.  How a storm changes things.

[lone*X]

I would first set it on the side with clutch cover off.

 I am thinking seawater and Kero dont mix, and you would see what is still in there.
 
Then inspect what parts you can see with clutch out, like look for rust spots on bearings. Use a cylinder light on the bores. Take cam cover off.

 If it all looks good, run it, but dump the oil at 50 miles, pour it over a piece of cardboard and see what is coming out..

The kerosene was used as a flush after the sea water was dumped/drained.  The top end was still closed up except that the carbs were off.  Water didn't get high enough in the garage to get in the heads/cylinders.  I'm thinking this is a toss up.  The cases are good.  If the bearings go out after I fire it up I haven't lost any time.  With the exception of pulling it out of the frame again its the same amount of work to tear it down later as it would be today.