Author Topic: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running  (Read 1624 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

davetheman

  • Guest
HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« on: July 30, 2009, 05:38:46 AM »
hello everyone, i have been browsing these forums for sometime.  i bought a cb750 1978k 2 years ago and i sold it last year.  i was going to try and cafe it and i took it all apart and then started to feel that i was in way over my head since i had never worked on a bike before.

last week i bought a 1972 cb750k feeling ready to take on a serious project. i just want to get it running first to see how the engine is.  here is a list of everything that i did in order.  i would greatly appreciate any help you guys can provide.  i don't really know anything about bikes except for what i've learned by trying to troubleshoot with the honda shop manual.

sunday: brought bike home, previous owner said it was running 1 or 2 years ago.
monday: emptied stale gas, gas tank has small spots of rust on the inside, installed brand new battery, installed exhaust pipes, new gas,

now on monday night, it fired right up but it was idling at 3000rpm.  it was really late so i only had it going for a minute or two and then i put the bike away.

Tuesday morning: fired the bike up again, starting adjusting the carburetor air screw to get it to idle better.  the bike ran for about 2 minutes and then it started sputtering and died.  after that, i couldnt' start it up again.  at this point, i noticed some oil coming out at the far left header.

Wed: started troubleshooting the problem:  i took the carburetors totally apart and cleaned them.  the bike still wouldn't work
                                                          i  replaced the spark plugs and checked the spark.  they were all good.
                                                           i thought i might have rebuilt the carbs wrong so i took the spare carbs that came with the bike and mounted them and it still didn't help
                                                           the electric start is functioning fine, so is the kick start. so at this point, i'm not sure what i should do next
 

davetheman

  • Guest
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 05:41:00 AM »
i forgot to mention that on wednesday, while checking for spark, i opened up the points cover and discovered a dyna s ignition system.  i downloaded and installation manual for it to check if it had been installed correctly and it was.  i did not check the timing though

Offline Johnie

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,610
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 06:11:23 AM »
i forgot to mention that on wednesday, while checking for spark, i opened up the points cover and discovered a dyna s ignition system.  i downloaded and installation manual for it to check if it had been installed correctly and it was.  i did not check the timing though
Did you do a bench sync?  That is getting the slides in all 4 carbs the same.  There is some nice stuff in the FAQ on carbs.  Below is the info on how to bench sync from the FAQ area:

I need to sync my carbs but have no vaccum meter. How do I bench-sync?
When I rebuild a set of carbs, I always bench sync them before I re-intall them. Basically, I use a 1/8" drill bit as a gage. Here's how you do it: Adjust the idle screw (the main one) until the 1 carb outside of it is open enough to just let the 1/8" drill bit through. Then adjust the _sync_ screws on the other 3 carbs until the drill bit just fits them as well. You'll probably want to close the idle screw before you bolt them back on the bike, 1/8" openeing is pretty big. This isn't a perfect sync, as there are other things that will affect the airflow to a given cylinder, but it will get you pretty close.

My note - the 1/8th drill bit may be a bit to big.  Some guys use a paper clip and resident carb expert TT uses the light method where he will adjust the slides to just be able to see light coming through at the bottom.  Make sure your idle screw is all the way out during the sync.  

Keep in mind usually the sync is the last thing you do.  Valves should be adjusted.  Hopefully you got all the crap out of the jets.  Is there a chance you sucked crap back into your clean carbs from that tank with rust in it?  Good possibility.  You may want to clean and seal that tank...or at least put a filter on that gas line.  But then you stand a chance of plugging that filter too.  

One last thing, there is a number on your carbs.  That will give you an idea what the jet size, float height, needle settings, etc are for that particular carb there.  I have found incorrect jets on my carbs.  If you can give me the carb # I can give you the info if you can not locate it.  It will be a number like B750A, 7A, 657A, 657B or 86A.  Just a few things to think about.  Let us know how it goes and good luck.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 06:15:20 AM by Johnie »
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

davetheman

  • Guest
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 06:31:11 AM »
i forgot to mention that on wednesday, while checking for spark, i opened up the points cover and discovered a dyna s ignition system.  i downloaded and installation manual for it to check if it had been installed correctly and it was.  i did not check the timing though
Did you do a bench sync?  That is getting the slides in all 4 carbs the same.  There is some nice stuff in the FAQ on carbs.  Below is the info on how to bench sync from the FAQ area:

I need to sync my carbs but have no vaccum meter. How do I bench-sync?
When I rebuild a set of carbs, I always bench sync them before I re-intall them. Basically, I use a 1/8" drill bit as a gage. Here's how you do it: Adjust the idle screw (the main one) until the 1 carb outside of it is open enough to just let the 1/8" drill bit through. Then adjust the _sync_ screws on the other 3 carbs until the drill bit just fits them as well. You'll probably want to close the idle screw before you bolt them back on the bike, 1/8" openeing is pretty big. This isn't a perfect sync, as there are other things that will affect the airflow to a given cylinder, but it will get you pretty close.

My note - the 1/8th drill bit may be a bit to big.  Some guys use a paper clip and resident carb expert TT uses the light method where he will adjust the slides to just be able to see light coming through at the bottom.  Make sure your idle screw is all the way out during the sync.  

Keep in mind usually the sync is the last thing you do.  Valves should be adjusted.  Hopefully you got all the crap out of the jets.  Is there a chance you sucked crap back into your clean carbs from that tank with rust in it?  Good possibility.  You may want to clean and seal that tank...or at least put a filter on that gas line.  But then you stand a chance of plugging that filter too.  

One last thing, there is a number on your carbs.  That will give you an idea what the jet size, float height, needle settings, etc are for that particular carb there.  I have found incorrect jets on my carbs.  If you can give me the carb # I can give you the info if you can not locate it.  It will be a number like B750A, 7A, 657A, 657B or 86A.  Just a few things to think about.  Let us know how it goes and good luck.

hello, thanks for the reply.  i did read the faq but i dion't really understand that part about bench- synching the carbs.  i will go out to the garage right now and try it anyway.  does "synching the carbs" mean i am trying to adjust the throttle mechanism so that when i roll the trhottle, all four carbs, open/close at the same time?  i will be back with the carb # aftertrying a bench sync thanks

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 06:34:33 AM »
Quote
does "synching the carbs" mean i am trying to adjust the throttle mechanism so that when i roll the trhottle, all four carbs, open/close at the same time?

Yup, that's it in a nutshell.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 07:15:23 AM »
Did you check the float bowls to make sure that the carbs are getting gas. Sounds curious if it ran for a bit and now nothing. They can be quite fussy on the fuel line routing,did you by chance change them,keep everything running downhill. Also rust is very bad to have in the tank. Good luck

Offline greenjeans

  • Industrial strengthed dreamer.
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,962
  • 1972 CB750K2
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 07:17:10 AM »
1 thing that I learned the hard way was to clean those carbs within an inch of their life...  I thought mine were clean, only to find that I actually had to
clean them twice more.   Most seem to bench synch the carbs with a 1/8" drill bit for starters - that should get things running good enough for synching
with a vacuum guage.  

Were you using the choke ?  I find that with the warmer summer weather, I don't have to use much if any at all to get it started/running.
Could be that it was getting too much gas.  

I agree with Johnnie - adjust the timing and set the valves first....

If yours has been sitting for an extended period it might take a while for the rings to free themselves up.  After I got mine running it was pretty ragged
for a few days - the more I ran it, the better it got.

Good luck,  72's are greatness.
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 07:17:22 AM »
The bike was sitting with bad gas for a couple years. Almost certainly, your carbs need to be disaasembled, cleaned, reassembled, bench synched, then synched.
No.


Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,861
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 07:17:38 AM »
Like the guys above said on those carbs: check in the bowls first for bits of rust. Also check the petcock's bowl and the screen inside there, clean and reassemble. When installing that petcock bowl, be sure to wet the O-ring first with a bit of grease or oil or spit, so it doesn't split when you are tightening the little bowl back on: it is old now. Or, get a new one...the air screws should all be set at 1 turn out from all the way in. Don't tighten these screws hard: the seats are soft aluminum or brass and this will damage those seats.

Idling at 3000 RPM is usually an indication of too advanced ignition timing. This is common with Dyna "S" triggers, because their installation manual is pretty vague. If you don't know how to use a voltmeter, this situation can get worse, and might be what the previous owner did for you...when it does run, check the timing first thing, using a timing light. It must be resting on the "F" marks for each pair of cylinders when idling at 1200 RPM or less, and must not pass beyond the advance marks for those cylinders when at 3000 RPM. The gap between the magnet on the points advancer and the face of each trigger should be in the range of .025" to .040", and should be the same for both sides, for starters. I've found .035" works pretty well for starting the process.

Idling at 3000 RPM can also be vacuum leaks in the hoses where the carbs attach to the engine. Make sure you don't have leaks here: one good method, since the hoses are old, is to go and get wider hose clamps and install those instead, and tight. The Honda clamps stretch out when they are old, and they cannot pull the old hose rubber closed. On a K2, it's time for new hoses, unless the previous owner replaced them. They will probably be leaking now, since you pulled off the carbs and probably still have the original, narrow, Honda hose clamps: this will not seal.

See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 07:58:50 AM »
+1 Hondaman as usual on those clamps. Old rubber and original clamps = crap,you can usually spin them when tight. Put a little grease on the backside of the clamps to tighten nice without damaging the rubber. I get 10 packs of the stainless at Menards for around $8.00 and trim them down. Very few serrations or thread left after trim just nice smooth metal.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 08:13:42 AM by ekpent »

davetheman

  • Guest
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 08:56:58 AM »
hello, all.  thank you for all the advice.  i am getting very frustrated at this bike.  i spent 5 or 6 hours cleaning the carbs yesterday very meticulously.  would you guys recommend starting the rebuild without first getting the bike running?  i had initially planned on rebuilding the engine anyway. 

At this point, i just want to start tearing it apart.  is it possible that it is an engine problem?  i just don't think that i failed that miserably at puttin gthe carbs back together.  I also tried the second set of carbs (i didn't touch them except i took 2 of the float bowls off and they looked clean) and had no luck with them either.

i forgot to mention that i rebuilt the petcock on monday and made sure that was clean.  i also was able to get the bike to idle at 1200 for a minute just before it died on tuesday morning.

again, my main question is, would you guys recommend starting the rebuild without first getting the bike running?

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,861
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: HELP!! can't get cb750 1972 bike running
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 09:18:13 AM »
At least, rebuilding first is a good way to winnow out any problems inside, like that oil leak you mentioned.

I typically spend 10-12 hours cleaning a set of carbs...  ::)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com