Author Topic: need stock carb specks!!!  (Read 3237 times)

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matthewspradley

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need stock carb specks!!!
« on: August 02, 2009, 12:35:26 PM »
hey guys, new to the forum, and to bikes, so if my terminology is off bare with me.  i have a 1977 cb750 supersport that has an out of tune carb.  don't know much about carbs either    and there is the question.  how do i do a bench tune.  it seems quit simple, only a few places to be adjusted, hope it will be easy.
thanks for the help

Offline Gordon

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2009, 12:50:28 PM »
Welcome! :)

My first follow-up question is, since you say you don't know much about bikes or carbs, how do you know you have an out of tune carb? 

It will help us to help you if you can describe, in the best detail possible, what the exact symptoms of your problem are and also exactly what you're working with in the way of any and all changes from stock on your bike, and any history you may know about it.

Offline Achmed

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2009, 01:22:08 PM »
I don't normally save the specks from my carbs. I just want them out and gone! You came to the right place, though. Best wishes and be patient.

Offline Johnie

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2009, 01:25:44 PM »
Go to the FAQ area of this board and then look for the carb section.  How to bench sync is there.  Good luck with it...
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2009, 02:35:45 PM »
i know because while i was in the house getting a drink my Mexican neighbor decided he knew how to tune the carb with a straight edge, by the time i had returned i had no idea what had happened with the carb and there is still a language barrier in the way of finding out.  i figure that with the stock settings it will be close enough to run and enable me to get to work tomorrow.  after work ill work on the fine tune if possible.  what other details there are about the bike, i don't know.  just bought it and was replacing the float bowl gaskets, carb was tuned beautifully, and then the afortold story.
sorry so newbie
thanks again
matthew

Offline Gordon

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2009, 03:00:32 PM »
Okay.

So, first off your bike has four carbs, not just one. 

Please don't think I'm being a smart-ass here, because (for once ;)) I'm not.  Just doing my best to help.

When you say your neighbor "tuned" your carbs, what do you mean?  What did he adjust?  I'm trying to figure out what kind of adjustment he could have made with a straight-edge, and the only thing that comes to mind is float height.  Since you say you were replacing the bowl gaskets this would sort of make sense since you would have to take the bowls off to do this. 

We need more info to be able to help you.   

Offline Achmed

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2009, 03:03:51 PM »
screw=tornillo? something like that anyway. the slide adjustment screws are in the top of the bodies, covered by rubber boots (botas?) normally. botas may be bye bye on some motocicletas.

Since I have to guess I guess that is what he adjusted.

You are lucky to have a supersport. They are the best of the breed!

Offline 754

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2009, 03:13:58 PM »
Achmed, I dare you to cross the border with a truck, and come up here, and buy up some of my "Best of the Breed" motors and stuff.. :o
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matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2009, 03:50:03 PM »
there are four carbs
he did adjust the float height      correct stock height?
also there is a brass screw inside the bowls    need to know how many turns?
and a smaller screw outside the bowl      how many turn?
i also read in the FAQ section that a guy used an eighth inch drill bit to set something... the barrel pistons maybe
this is the relevant part of the post
"I need to sync my carbs but have no vaccum meter. How do I bench-sync?
When I rebuild a set of carbs, I always bench sync them before I re-intall them. Basically, I use a 1/8" drill bit as a gage. Here's how you do it: Adjust the idle screw (the main one) until the 1 carb outside of it is open enough to just let the 1/8" drill bit through. Then adjust the _sync_ screws on the other 3 carbs until the drill bit just fits them as well. You'll probably want to close the idle screw before you bolt them back on the bike, 1/8" openeing is pretty big. This isn't a perfect sync, as there are other things that will affect the airflow to a given cylinder, but it will get you pretty close.

My note - the 1/8th drill bit may be a bit to big.  Some guys use a paper clip and resident carb expert TT uses the light method where he will adjust the slides to just be able to see light coming through at the bottom.  Make sure your idle screw is all the way out during the sync."


i didnt know what he was talking about and it was late last night..  may have been a mistake to keep working.  oh well, here we are.


so what i did was open the top of the carb and adjust the height screws for the ??pistons??
it was a brass set screw with a jam nut
only three carbs had them so i assumed that it should be set in reference to the one without
i then proceeded to open the idle until i could fit the drill bit in and then set the others to match.


sounds like a mess to me.... sorry for the complication and thanks for any help.
matthew   

Offline Gordon

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2009, 04:29:43 PM »
there are four carbs
he did adjust the float height      correct stock height?
also there is a brass screw inside the bowls    need to know how many turns?
and a smaller screw outside the bowl      how many turn?
i also read in the FAQ section that a guy used an eighth inch drill bit to set something... the barrel pistons maybe
this is the relevant part of the post
"I need to sync my carbs but have no vaccum meter. How do I bench-sync?
When I rebuild a set of carbs, I always bench sync them before I re-intall them. Basically, I use a 1/8" drill bit as a gage. Here's how you do it: Adjust the idle screw (the main one) until the 1 carb outside of it is open enough to just let the 1/8" drill bit through. Then adjust the _sync_ screws on the other 3 carbs until the drill bit just fits them as well. You'll probably want to close the idle screw before you bolt them back on the bike, 1/8" openeing is pretty big. This isn't a perfect sync, as there are other things that will affect the airflow to a given cylinder, but it will get you pretty close.

My note - the 1/8th drill bit may be a bit to big.  Some guys use a paper clip and resident carb expert TT uses the light method where he will adjust the slides to just be able to see light coming through at the bottom.  Make sure your idle screw is all the way out during the sync."


i didnt know what he was talking about and it was late last night..  may have been a mistake to keep working.  oh well, here we are.


so what i did was open the top of the carb and adjust the height screws for the ??pistons??
it was a brass set screw with a jam nut
only three carbs had them so i assumed that it should be set in reference to the one without
i then proceeded to open the idle until i could fit the drill bit in and then set the others to match.


sounds like a mess to me.... sorry for the complication and thanks for any help.
matthew   

That's quite the can of worms you've opened.  For your own sake, and sanity, please don't make adjustments until you know exactly what you're doing. 

You're talking about several separate systems within the carburetors that each require their own level of knowledge, available information and tools/gauges.  These carbs can be very simple to work on, but you need to approach them one system at a time. 

First of all, you need a shop manual to provide you with the basic specs like float height and idle mix screw setting.  If you don't have one or can't get one easily they are available for free download.  I'm sure there's a link somewhere either in the FAQ's or in the Tricks & Tips section.  This is a must-have when owning/maintaining an old bike.  Your fellow forum members are here to help you beyond that, but we're not here to replace a good shop manual.

The smaller screw you're talking about on the outside of the float bowl is the idle mix screw.  The factory setting, and subsequent tuning adjustment procedure, for this should be detailed in your manual.  There is no adjustable screw inside the float bowl that I know of (unless the '77 carbs are way different than I ever expected).  You may be looking at the main jet thinking it's an adjustable screw because it has a slot for a screwdriver in it. 

I'll help as much as I can when I come back in the house, but I have a rare evening to spend in the garage working on my own bikes and I intend to make as much use of it as I can.   
 

Offline Johnie

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2009, 06:10:32 PM »
Matt...the bench sync is talking about the slides in the carbs that will move up and down when you turn the throttle.  Those are what you sync all the same.  But like Gordon says, the sync is the last thing you should do.  There are other things you should do before the sync.  But you should be on the right track.  The shop manual would be great for you.  I think that manual is on this board in the topic area for free.
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2009, 07:36:39 PM »
this may be a stupid question but does the float height have anything to do with the engine running lean?


and now for the good news, i have my bike most of the way back together and running.  the weird thing is that when i hit the throttle quickly it trys to die.  ie. it bogs until you let up and then resumes a decent idle.  but when i run it with the choke fully engaged it will wind up like the dickens.  what could be possible causes?
thanks.


by the way i downloaded the manual. thanks for the tip. it should be useful in the future.

Offline Gordon

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2009, 07:41:46 PM »
Yes, if the float height is set too low it will make the engine run lean.

If I'm not mistaken, your bike should have an accelerator pump.  If this isn't functioning properly it would (partially) explain the symptoms you describe in the second part of your last post.  

matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2009, 09:08:01 PM »
that sounds about right.  thanks for the help man. if im not mistaken the stock height is around 22mm.  i think that should solve the problem.  also to save a dime i cut the bowl gaskets out of rubber fiber gasket material which worked splendidly!!  but i may have restricted the movement of the accelerator pumps push rod.  ill check and let you know

Offline Gordon

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2009, 09:49:40 PM »
I could be off here, but I'm getting the feeling like you know more about what you're doing than you're letting on. :-\

Offline Achmed

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2009, 10:37:16 PM »
Better that way than the other way around, right? Maybe.

matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2009, 11:39:58 AM »
not intentionally, although i have been a wrench head for many years.  im just good at mechanics. it makes sense in my brain. :)  after messing with it for a while, i basically understood how it worked,  at that point all that is left is the fine tune.  which by the way i made it to work this morning without fault.  thanks again for all the help.
see you all next time there is a problematic problem.
matthew

matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 11:42:46 AM »
just so i dont sound ancient because of my last post, im 24.

Offline Johnie

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 01:37:47 PM »
just so i dont sound ancient because of my last post, im 24.
Sure...rub it in... ;D
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2009, 06:11:55 AM »
lol.  more good news.  i am now able to take off my carbs, tune them, and put them back on in about 1.5 hours.  and it run well.  right now i have a bit of a rich mixture under acceleration.  accelerator pump?? maybe? i did tighten the spring a little so it would engage the push rod a bit more, could i have gone too far?  also  as i stated earlier i set the float height to about 22mm when there down all the way.  my last question, does the float height when up all the way make any difference.  i think it must but its always nice to hear another point of view.
thanks

Offline Gordon

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2009, 09:29:36 AM »
also  as i stated earlier i set the float height to about 22mm when there down all the way. 


That's your problem right there.  The float level is set at the point that the float tang just makes contact with the valve pin, but not compressing it.  By setting it at 22mm when it's in its lowest position the fuel level is way too high and will cause the bike to run rich. 

You said you downloaded the manual, but have you read it?  There's no sense in guessing and creating more work for yourself when you have the answers right there.   

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2009, 10:00:18 AM »
Full tune-up?
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matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2009, 07:48:10 AM »
hello again,
i am going to by a VACCM SYNCHRONIZER  and thought there might be a few recomendations on which to purchase.  for example:  should i buy digital for analog, and which brand?

Offline Johnie

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2009, 09:32:23 AM »
Matt...you may need to back up a hair. A few posts up you said the float height is 22mm. According to the Honda carb specs I have here it lists the 1977 CB750F - carb casting model #PD41B to have a float level of 14.5mm with 105 main jets and 35 slow. Air screw 1 1/2 turns out. Is the supersport the F model? Are those the original carbs on that bike?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 09:35:21 AM by Johnie »
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

matthewspradley

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Re: need stock carb specks!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2009, 07:57:16 AM »
i found out about the 14.5 mm float height, it is the f model, and i don't know if they are the stock carbs but I'm tempted to say yes.  i have a new problem, no matter how i adjust the idle air screw, i have a strait miss on my outer (1st and 4th) cylinders????  could this be just a carb problem or is it worse than i anticipated?
thanks
matthew