Author Topic: cam chain tensioner problem  (Read 2428 times)

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ateamsam

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cam chain tensioner problem
« on: August 08, 2009, 03:51:18 PM »
So I wanted to do a tune-up on the bike since I recently got it and am unsure if it has been done yet.  I read the clymers manual and it says to remove the tappet covers, remove the spark plugs, go past TDC for the first cylinder so that the bold lines up with the notch, or whatever the book says.  I do all this and then loosen the lock nut expecting the adjustment screw to move, and it does not.  the clymers manual says to screw it counter clockwise if this happens and remove the screw driver when it has reached a stop point.  I try doing this but it doesn't budge.  I remove the locknut and washer and I try screwing it clockwise and it moves about 180 degrees.  What gives?  What should I do??

Offline scondon

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 04:11:29 PM »
I'm guessing you've got a 350, or 400, or 550 bike?
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ateamsam

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 04:17:35 PM »
sorry about that.  I have a 1974 cb550 with about 37,xxx miles on it.

Offline tlbranth

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 06:11:53 PM »
Don't know what the manual says but here's how to adjust valves. 1&4 are partners (they move up & down together) and 2&3 are partners. Remove all the tappet covers. rotate the engine until a rocker is all the way down and then adjust its partner. i.e. #1 intake is all the way down (valve all the way open) - adjust #4 intake. Write down which valves you've adjusted as you go.
Never mind timing marks. Recheck gap after you tighten the nut.
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Offline scondon

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 08:47:49 PM »
sorry about that.  I have a 1974 cb550 with about 37,xxx miles on it.

 Yeah, the 550 tensioner is a bit different than the 750's. Sorry I can't be of help on this one, but someone surely knows. In the meantime, there's a bit of stuff posted in the past about your tensioner. "550 cam chain" entered in the search bar should get ya some ideas. This one doesn't cover your question specifically, but there's good info.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=51494.msg548245
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ateamsam

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2009, 03:05:20 PM »
After reading some other threads here I've sprayed some PB Blast on the screw to see if maybe it 's just rusted a bit.  I'm gonna give it a day and loosen the lock nut in hopes that the adjust will move.  Anyone else got any other ideas?

Offline IndyFour

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2009, 03:33:04 PM »
I was just trying to do this the other day on my 74 CB550.  Just like you, I was expecting the screw to turn on it's own and "automatically adjust", but it did not.  Manually, mine would not turn but maybe clockwise about an 1/8 of a turn...that's it.  I just re-tightened the nut and let it go for now until I can figure out what's up.

In the FAQ, it mentions somewhere about adjusting the tension while the engine is running, but I don't know how one would go about doing that, nor if it would even be beneficial in this instance.

One thing I can suggest is that you go over to Youtube and search "cb500 cam chain" and there's a guy showing the tensioner assembly out of an engine to show how it works.  Not exactly entertaining, but educational.  After you see the vid, you will know how the screw actually tightens the tension on the chain.

If you find out anything, please let me know as I'm in the same predicament.  
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 03:36:13 PM by IndyFour »
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Offline Lars

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 05:30:17 AM »
If I recall correct on the CB 550:

1. Loosen up the lock nut.
2. Take a short screwdriver and twist the bolt counter clockwise and let it go.
3. Fasten the locknut.

I also seem to rember someone saying that you have to crank the engine to TDC and a bit more, to get the cam chain at the tightest. Then do the job. Have to check in my manual to be sure.

The CB350F you loosen up the lock nut and let the engine run. Thighten up the locknut.


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Offline mystic_1

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 09:03:54 AM »
I don't know if this advice applies to the 550 but when I adjust cam chain tension I rotate the engine to the specified location (15 ATDC on a 750) and then hold the crank in place with the wrench, continuing to apply slight forward pressure, while I adjust the tensioner.  This ensures that all of the slack stays on the tensioner side of the camchain while adjusting.

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Offline IndyFour

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 01:04:53 PM »
I don't know if this advice applies to the 550 but when I adjust cam chain tension I rotate the engine to the specified location (15 ATDC on a 750) and then hold the crank in place with the wrench, continuing to apply slight forward pressure, while I adjust the tensioner.  This ensures that all of the slack stays on the tensioner side of the camchain while adjusting.

mystic_1

It's basically the same procedure (i.e. 15 deg past TDC on cylinder #1 according to the Clymer), but the tensioner is supposed to "self adjust" once the nut is loosened on the 550.  The adjuster screw is supposed to turn to the correct amount of tension on its own, but the trouble we are having is that it is not doing so.  Mine case in particular, the screw doesn't even turn like it should.  I'm thinking my tensioner is toast, but I haven't given up yet.  I haven't tried very hard to turn the screw (mainly because I didn't have a stubby screwdriver of an appropriate size handy).  I need to give it a bit more torque to see if it will move....and hopefully not break it.  ::)

ateamsam:  Did you have any luck getting the screw to loosen up on yours?
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Offline mikethejeepguy

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 02:16:39 PM »
What do you mean my video isn't entertaining? :D :D :D  Here is a link to my post with the vid.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=55569.msg598355#msg598355

Don't expect to see much turning of the screw when the adjustment happens. The tensioner only takes up small amounts of slack and the peg will only turn only a couple of degrees when you loosen the nut and pull the screw driver away... and I mean really maybe 3 degrees counterclockwise. Depending on how loose your chain is of course. Turning the screw clockwise disengages the tensioner all together and you will feel a springy resistance when that happens. Locking it with the nut in that position is used for removing the tensioner out of the motor, or for removing your cam. Don't turn it past the point where it resists and stops. You run the risk of stripping the cam gear, or skipping it out of sync with the tensioner's rail and messing up the mechanism. If that happens, you would have a hard time removing the cam etc etc. a.k.a. not good and a new tensioner costs $120. It can be replaced without taking the whole motor apart, but does involve pretty much removing the motor from the frame as you have to tilt it to the side b/c of top frame tube clearance, but that's a whole other issue. Here... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=55888.msg602023#msg602023

Spraying the tensioner peg with penetrating fluid might help if it is stuck between the case of the motor, but I'm not sure that is likely to happen. It can't really rust to the aluminum block and I think the peg is stainless (not sure). You could try to carefully pull out the little o-ring from the peg and then spray, but it will likely do nothing beyond that point. The tensioner should receive lube from the engine oil circulating with your chain and down the block's tunnel. If you can turn the peg, it is unlikely that the problem is there.

Technically, turning the peg all the way clockwise will disengage the tensioner and releasing it "should" return the shoe to a point where it takes up the slack again if it is working properly and there is slack, like at 15 degrees past TDC. (the Honda Service manual outlines it well). In the FAQ section, you will find that there are several other methods. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=369.msg3328#msg3328 The while running (which I think due to the vibration of the chain might rattle a stuck tensioner loose), or the "mechanical spider" method. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=369.msg315851#msg315851

I also wouldn't force the tensioner peg counterclockwise with the screwdriver (tensioning side). The spring mounted on the tensioner should pull the shoe into it's proper position (again when there is slack in the chain) automatically. Forcing it beyond that point, you run the risk of overtightening the shoe, which will result in the chain grinding a groove into the rubber and wearing the tensioner out prematurely. In the event that the tensioner isn't tightening because the shoe will not slide in the tensioner's tracks then I think the best thing would be to pull it out of the motor and get it moving, or at that point, might as well replace it. Whatever you do, make sure you don't break the tensioner peg. That would make things very difficult. Also, you can tell that your tensioner isn't working by the amount cam chain noise. If you only hear a little bit of noise, you should be ok.

Hope this helps... good luck on your cam chain tensioner adventures. :)

« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 10:35:15 PM by mikethejeepguy »
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ateamsam

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Re: cam chain tensioner problem
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2009, 10:46:19 PM »
How do I know what too much cam chain noise is?  I ask because I've never had to deal with this before and think any noise was probably just normal.