Topic: Another Health Insurance Thread. (NOT like the other one.)

[GroovieGhoulie]

I am going to start racing in the local Texas Vintage club, (TVRC), and AHRMA as well.  However, you need health insurance to compete in most clubs.

I am OK with this, since a bad shunt on the track could result in Gillions of dollars in medical care. 

(Despite the fact that I know I am completely bulletproof, I have no desire to actually stand downrange and test it, you know?)   

Anyway, I've been researching health insurers, and d*mn near every one of them has clauses that say they won't pay out for anything motorcycle and/or competition/racing related.

Since this is the double-whammy of "motorcycle racing", I'd be screwed.  Any good health insurance providers that would cover racing injuries/extreme sports and would be affordable to a working-class joe like me? 

Does AHRMA have a partnership or affiliation with an insurance group to help out it's members?  Something like that would make sense, since if they're gonna require it, they should have some "in-house" options for riders.

Thanks for any advice.  (I don't wanna go down the path of the OTHER Insurance thread, please.)

[Gordon]

Have you checked with anybody at TVRC or AHRMA?  Seems like they might have some suggestions for insurance. 

[BobbyR]

Have you checked with anybody at TVRC or AHRMA?  Seems like they might have some suggestions for insurance. 

I would say that is your best bet. If you meet other racers they may have some leads. I am sure it will be expensive.

[GroovieGhoulie]

AHRMA is not helpful.  TVRC is very grassroots and I haven't contacted them yet.

Just figured with the coverage and wide breadth of this forum, there could be some experience.

I just don't wanna be paying for insurance, then have them say "F*ck you" when I try to make a claim, as has happened to some members when involved in motorcycle accidents.

I am NO fan of socialist insurance, but (and this one is for you Ed), Private insurance companies will be less-than-cool when it comes to motorcycle or racing-related payouts.  And I know government-run healthcare would be no better, but an AFFORDABLE private health insurer that will insure a motorcycle racer, skydiver, SCUBA diver, racecar driver, etc. (I am involved in ALL  these "extreme sports"), is not heard of.

Pretty much, if you're involved in "extreme sports", you're screwed.

[GroovieGhoulie]

I am sure it will be expensive.

That's the crux.  I can't afford "real" insurance.  I am a racer, skydiver and extreme SCUBA diver, among other death-defying hobbies.  I engage in high-risk activities, but can't afford the top-dollar health insurance, and I DAMN sure ain't gonna stop racing.

But I at least need something to put in the "Health Insurance Policy" line of the entry form for racing.  I just gotta check the block, I'm not REALLY looking for insurance because I know that health insurers RUN from people like me.  (Thrill seekers.)

If I wad it up and cripple myself, I'm not looking to actually HEAL.  I know that'll be too expensive for an insurer, and therefore ME to afford, so I've already prepared the .45ACP I'm gonna put to my head if I'm ever crippled.  The problem is, I know in some countries, I COULD be helped for little to no money to me, no matter how bad my wreck is, yet I live in America, where I am planning my own suicide if I get hurt "too bad" for the insurer to pay.  Sick, huh?

Flame away.

[Joel]

I am sure it will be expensive.

That's the crux.  I can't afford "real" insurance.  I am a racer, skydiver and extreme SCUBA diver, among other death-defying hobbies.  I engage in high-risk activities, but can't afford the top-dollar health insurance, and I DAMN sure ain't gonna stop racing.

But I at least need something to put in the "Health Insurance Policy" line of the entry form for racing.  I just gotta check the block, I'm not REALLY looking for insurance because I know that health insurers RUN from people like me.  (Thrill seekers.)

If I wad it up and cripple myself, I'm not looking to actually HEAL.  I know that'll be too expensive for an insurer, and therefore ME to afford, so I've already prepared the .45ACP I'm gonna put to my head if I'm ever crippled.  The problem is, I know in some countries, I COULD be helped for little to no money to me, no matter how bad my wreck is, yet I live in America, where I am planning my own suicide if I get hurt "too bad" for the insurer to pay.  Sick, huh?

Flame away.

I guess you have to decide what's a higher priority.  To make sure I understand, they require health insurance but they don't require that said insurance covers you in the event of a injury related to racing?

I don't know how this would compare to the expensive coverage that would cover injury during your extreme sports, but I thought of taking an amount of money you'd pay for premiums and investing it somehow to be used as "insurance".  I'm sure the racing organization wouldn't accept it as recognized coverage.

[tsflstb]

I've got United Healthcare who never really asks questions.  Of course if I had to be life-flighted from a racetrack they might say something.  Can't say I've ever really read what they exclude - it's just my only option at work.

On a more important note - what are you racing?  Roadracing or doing off road stuff with AHRMA?

[GroovieGhoulie]

I guess you have to decide what's a higher priority.  To make sure I understand, they require health insurance but they don't require that said insurance covers you in the event of a injury related to racing?

Apparently not.  You just fill in the entry form with your "Health Insurance" and you race.  If you wad it up, apparently it's on YOU that you properly represented yourself.

I don't know how this would compare to the expensive coverage that would cover injury during your extreme sports, but I thought of taking an amount of money you'd pay for premiums and investing it somehow to be used as "insurance".  I'm sure the racing organization wouldn't accept it as recognized coverage.

If I can't even afford the premiums, how could I set that same amount aside per month as "investments"?

The $50-$75 range is what I can spare per month, for insurance, and if you think that covers a single bad wreck at the track, you're nuts.

On a more important note - what are you racing?  Roadracing or doing off road stuff with AHRMA?

I don't do anything on pavement anymore.  Motocross, Enduros, Observed Trials, that's it. Dirtbikes only.  Streetbikes and other pavement disciplines can go off into the sunset and die for all I care.  Dirt bikes and off-road racing ONLY for me.  

(Having said THAT, speeds are usually lower and injuries less severe than roadracing, plus, me being young and invincible will help.)

[bucky katt]

lol health insurance? i've been riding horses for 20 years, motorcycles a bit less. and i havent been able to afford insurance at all.  hell my life insurance wont pay off if i get killed riding horses OR bikes.

[andy750]

Streetbikes and other pavement disciplines can go off into the sunset and die for all I care.  Dirt bikes and off-road racing ONLY for me.  

Yeah I guess streetbike racing or racing on a real track is not for the likes of a thrill seeker like you. I am sure Hodaka dirt bike racing gives you all the the thrills you need. And as you said much much less chance of getting seriously injured doing this. At least you wont be involved in a 100+ mph crash 

cheers
Andy

[edbikerii]

I am NO fan of socialist insurance, but (and this one is for you Ed), Private insurance companies will be less-than-cool when it comes to motorcycle or racing-related payouts.  And I know government-run healthcare would be no better, but an AFFORDABLE private health insurer that will insure a motorcycle racer, skydiver, SCUBA diver, racecar driver, etc. (I am involved in ALL  these "extreme sports"), is not heard of.

Pretty much, if you're involved in "extreme sports", you're screwed.

In my experience with motorcycle accidents on the street (I've never been injured on the track yet), the emergency room, ambulance and follow-ups have all been paid for by my private insurance with no questions asked.  I honestly don't know whether this was paid by the driver's liability insurance, my motorcycle insurance or my health insurance, but I've never had even so much as a phone call about it.  At the ER I provided information about both my health insurance and my motorcycle insurance, and the driver's automobile liability insurance.

[tsflstb]

I don't do anything on pavement anymore.  Motocross, Enduros, Observed Trials, that's it. Dirtbikes only.  Streetbikes and other pavement disciplines can go off into the sunset and die for all I care.  Dirt bikes and off-road racing ONLY for me. 

Yeah, the big injuries are more likely on pavement, but there are usually more small spills on dirt.  Twisted knees, shoulders, and wrists that usually heal on their own.  Nothing a few asprin won't cure.

Since you don't need it, I'll be there to pick up your NS400R in the morning.  I'll even haul it off for free. 

[GroovieGhoulie]

Streetbikes and other pavement disciplines can go off into the sunset and die for all I care.  Dirt bikes and off-road racing ONLY for me.  

Yeah I guess streetbike racing or racing on a real track is not for the likes of a thrill seeker like you. I am sure Hodaka dirt bike racing gives you all the the thrills you need. And as you said much much less chance of getting seriously injured doing this. At least you wont be involved in a 100+ mph crash 

cheers
Andy

Wow, the sarcasm is thick here.

I have no problem with road racing, but my dislike of it recently is the result of all the political infighting in AHRMA, with the off-road guys getting the short end of the stick.  Cancelled events here and there, and AHRMA is fracturing, mostly because of the egos and such of the top guys.  Then too, is the arrogant attitude and such of a lot of road racers that is evidenced by your comment in bold.  I've been getting it a lot lately, (from others), and I am a bit reactionary right now.  Plus, last night, I wrote that reply after an argument with my brother, and a few beers, so I perhaps spoke out of turn, and if I offended, I apologize.

And sure, I'm only running 100s and 125s right now, (which apparently is a source of derision), but if you think that running a big open-classer, (even a 125) in a 45-minute moto, jumping and banging bars the whole way, or running a 60-mile enduro loop for 2-3 laps is not "real racing", well, I say, try it.

In my case, it's personal choice.  I've got my preferences, and aside from being more fun, personally, dirt bike racing is quite a bit cheaper than road racing.

I just wish AHRMA would get its act together

[GroovieGhoulie]

I don't do anything on pavement anymore.  Motocross, Enduros, Observed Trials, that's it. Dirtbikes only.  Streetbikes and other pavement disciplines can go off into the sunset and die for all I care.  Dirt bikes and off-road racing ONLY for me. 

Yeah, the big injuries are more likely on pavement, but there are usually more small spills on dirt.  Twisted knees, shoulders, and wrists that usually heal on their own.  Nothing a few asprin won't cure.

Since you don't need it, I'll be there to pick up your NS400R in the morning.  I'll even haul it off for free. 

See above.  I was driving angry and tipsy on the Information Superhighway, and apparently crashed.

Apologies to you as well.

[tsflstb]

I wish vintage road racing had more of a presence here.  You'll see I'm parting out a lot of stuff from my 400F.  I thought it might be a real race bike eventually, but I see no point in riding against a "vintage" 1994 CBR600.

The guys up in the northeast and northwest have some nice small club racing orgs for CB350's etc...  If those tracks were closer it'd be great.  There seems to be a lot of politics involved in the larger vintage organizations these days that I'd want no part of either.

[andy750]

Hey Groovie no offense taken here. Just be careful what you write on a public forum when under the influence. And for the record no derision was intended. I have a lot of respect for you 

cheers
Andy

[Inigo Montoya]

OK I am not insurance expert but given what you want to do and the amount you can pay, I don't think you are going to find anything that works for you that would actually protect you in the event of a crash. now of course I might be wrong about that but given that I could spend almost 200 for coverage at work that probably would not cover racing and I almost never see a doctor, I just do not see you finding anything. It would be cool if you did, off road racing is awesome fun. Onroad might be more expensive and higher speeds with higher winnings but motocross is like the sprint cars. It is much more fun to compete in and even just to watch.

[Cvillechopper]

OK.  I work in healthcare and have recently written a white-paper on the topic of healthcare costs but still don't understand what your question is (or what response you are actually looking for).  You seem to understand that you freely subject yourself to higher risk situations.  You also seem to understand that most insurance companies are not willing to accept your risk without a significant increase in premiums.  Is your question asking if there are companies that practice bad business and accept additional risk without commensurate compensation?  If so I don't think those companies will be around long.

Progressive is a great example of this type of plan.  They started out insuring only those who were high risk, but charging a premium for the coverage.  It did not take long before they had to change the approach to limit risk by including low-risk drivers to their portfolio.  

The sad truth of it is if someone takes these types of risks on freely and gets seriously injured without proper coverage it is the government (read tax payers) and hospitals that cover the risk through Medicaid and tax incentives for hospitals that write off the bad debt.  You can't be turned away for service regardless of ability to pay for the service.  Only industry in the country that doesn't require agreement of personal responsibility to pay for a service prior to administering the service.  

Your 45ACP solution won't help avoid being a burden on society when you get mangled without coverage.  You'll still be treated at a hospital, accumulate 100s of thousands of dollars in bills that you have no way to pay so the business that provided the services and tax payers are stuck covering the result of your hobbies.  I know it's not the popular opinion but if you choose to play with danger, you alone should shoulder the responsibility.  If the track requires you have insurance that covers you in the case of a wreck you damn well should have proper insurance or you have no business being on the track.

Sorry but I've spent months grappling with this issue and have limited tolerance for those that circumvent reasonable precautions for the sake of a thrill.

[GroovieGhoulie]

Basically:  I'm not opposed to paying for coverage that WILL pay out.  I've personally known a number of people that have had to take their health insurance company to court to FORCE a payout on a motorcycle claim that is totally legit per their published policy.

I got NO problem paying for a policy, but IF AND WHEN I need to collect, I don't want the company going, "Just Kidding!"

I want a company that will PAY OUT as long as I've been paying in.  "Give and Get", ya know?

BUT, I can't afford "Mercedes" level payments.  I'm looking for a "Ford or GM" level insurance company that WILL pay out when asked.

Does THAT make sense?

[Inigo Montoya]

It all comes down to a company willing to cover you for your risks. A company willing to cover you on anything is going to cost a lot. I don't think there is anyways around that. Any company that you find for cheap I would suspect.