Topic: Cash for clunkers. Why kill the motor? WTF America?!?!

[Laminar]

What's with the name change?

[mystic_1]

You'd know if you ever went to that Dive Bar on the South Side of the website. 

mystic_1

[Laminar]

You'd know if you ever went to that Dive Bar on the South Side of the website. 

mystic_1

I feel like that's one of those threads I'd regret posting in because it would keep showing up in my unread posts, but I wouldn't give a crap about it. So I stay out.

[Inkscars]

You could just read it like everyone else.
I crack jokes about sweater critters alot.
I dunno.
I'm talking to the boss about trying to get two comparable vehicles done at the same time and have a drag race. oooh yeaaa.

[MCRider]

Of course $1 billion dollars wasn't enough so they pumped $2 billion more into it.  That is the solution to everything isn't it?... if it runs out of funding... pass another bill to keep funding it.  If beating the dead horse isn't working get a bigger bat.

The C.A.R.S. program was never meant to be a self-funding program.  It was meant as an economic stimulus.  It ran out of its original funding so quickly because it was working so well that they decided to put more money into it to keep it going for a little longer. 

All programs like this can do is make people feel a little better now. I can't prove it in advance but I'm pretty sure we'll find they just cannibalize sales from the future.

I for one derive no satisfaction from my share of each stimulus payment that went to someone else's car.  Baaaad policy.

[Gordon]

All programs like this can do is make people feel a little better now. I can't prove it in advance but I'm pretty sure we'll find they just cannibalize sales from the future.

That's the whole point.  Doing what we can to give the economy a jump-start now, because now is when we need it.  If it does have an effect on future vehicle sales it will be spread out over a much longer period of time than this program ran for, and won't cause any harm. 

And as far as just making people feel better, that's also part of the point.  People's perception of how the economy is doing has as much as, if not more, to do with the state the economy is in than most other factors.   

[Duke McDukiedook]

Unfortunately it is short-term thinking like this that got us in economic trouble in the first place.

EVERYBODY is worried about the quarterlies, not the long term.

[mystic_1]

EVERYBODY is worried about the quarterlies, not the long term.

This seems to be the tone of US politics in general these days.

mystic_1

[MCRider]

All programs like this can do is make people feel a little better now. I can't prove it in advance but I'm pretty sure we'll find they just cannibalize sales from the future.

That's the whole point.  Doing what we can to give the economy a jump-start now, because now is when we need it.  If it does have an effect on future vehicle sales it will be spread out over a much longer period of time than this program ran for, and won't cause any harm. 

And as far as just making people feel better, that's also part of the point.  People's perception of how the economy is doing has as much as, if not more, to do with the state the economy is in than most other factors.   

Sorry I must wholeheartedly disagree. Industries need to tie their production to a realistic analysis of demand, not to a trumped up artificial demand.

People feeling good is what got us here at least partially. When people feel good, they buy stuff they don't need with money they don't have (this goes for governments, and businesses as well, there is blame all around).

There is no value in jumpstarting an economy or an industry which has outlived its usefullness. The incompetents must be allowed to fail so the competent can surface. Giving capital to people who make bad decisions (those who bot the clunkers in the first place) is bad policy. We should reward those who make good decisions. Where's the stimulus money for people who didn't go into debt buying crap like clunkers? THEY should be getting rewarded, not the dummies. Then maybe the dummies will learn to do better.

This economy will not revive until people feel REALLY bad, they pay off their debts, they save money for real, they work hard and appreciate the fact they have a job and are SCARED they might lose it.  In short, a revival of the economy of the last 20 years is a big mistake.

A truly healthy economy runs on sound fundamentals, not feelings. This administrations emphasis on the "revival of credit" is hugely misplaced. IF we are to survive this god awful mess, it will be with money in the bank, a puritan work ethic, a turning back of the sense we are entitled to things, like healthcare, and freedom, that others must provide, and replaced with the sense that we must earn them, daily, ourselves.

[Joel]

All programs like this can do is make people feel a little better now. I can't prove it in advance but I'm pretty sure we'll find they just cannibalize sales from the future.

That's the whole point.  Doing what we can to give the economy a jump-start now, because now is when we need it.  If it does have an effect on future vehicle sales it will be spread out over a much longer period of time than this program ran for, and won't cause any harm. 

And as far as just making people feel better, that's also part of the point.  People's perception of how the economy is doing has as much as, if not more, to do with the state the economy is in than most other factors.   

Sorry I must wholeheartedly disagree. Industries need to tie their production to a realistic analysis of demand, not to a trumped up artificial demand.

People feeling good is what got us here at least partially. When people feel good, they buy stuff they don't need with money they don't have (this goes for governments, and businesses as well, there is blame all around).

There is no value in jumpstarting an economy or an industry which has outlived its usefullness. The incompetents must be allowed to fail so the competent can surface. Giving capital to people who make bad decisions (those who bot the clunkers in the first place) is bad policy. We should reward those who make good decisions. Where's the stimulus money for people who didn't go into debt buying crap like clunkers? THEY should be getting rewarded, not the dummies. Then maybe the dummies will learn to do better.

This economy will not revive until people feel REALLY bad, they pay off their debts, they save money for real, they work hard and appreciate the fact they have a job and are SCARED they might lose it.  In short, a revival of the economy of the last 20 years is a big mistake.

A truly healthy economy runs on sound fundamentals, not feelings. This administrations emphasis on the "revival of credit" is hugely misplaced. IF we are to survive this god awful mess, it will be with money in the bank, a puritan work ethic, a turning back of the sense we are entitled to things, like healthcare, and freedom, that others must provide, and replaced with the sense that we must earn them, daily, ourselves.

Well put.

[Frankencake]

Sorry I must wholeheartedly disagree. Industries need to tie their production to a realistic analysis of demand, not to a trumped up artificial demand.

People feeling good is what got us here at least partially. When people feel good, they buy stuff they don't need with money they don't have (this goes for governments, and businesses as well, there is blame all around).

There is no value in jumpstarting an economy or an industry which has outlived its usefullness. The incompetents must be allowed to fail so the competent can surface. Giving capital to people who make bad decisions (those who bot the clunkers in the first place) is bad policy. We should reward those who make good decisions. Where's the stimulus money for people who didn't go into debt buying crap like clunkers? THEY should be getting rewarded, not the dummies. Then maybe the dummies will learn to do better.

This economy will not revive until people feel REALLY bad, they pay off their debts, they save money for real, they work hard and appreciate the fact they have a job and are SCARED they might lose it.  In short, a revival of the economy of the last 20 years is a big mistake.

A truly healthy economy runs on sound fundamentals, not feelings. This administrations emphasis on the "revival of credit" is hugely misplaced. IF we are to survive this god awful mess, it will be with money in the bank, a puritan work ethic, a turning back of the sense we are entitled to things, like healthcare, and freedom, that others must provide, and replaced with the sense that we must earn them, daily, ourselves.

You can almost hear the "Battle Hymn Of The Republic" playing when you read the last paragraph. 

[TwoTired]

Sorry I must wholeheartedly disagree. Industries need to tie their production to a realistic analysis of demand, not to a trumped up artificial demand.

People feeling good is what got us here at least partially. When people feel good, they buy stuff they don't need with money they don't have (this goes for governments, and businesses as well, there is blame all around).

There is no value in jumpstarting an economy or an industry which has outlived its usefullness. The incompetents must be allowed to fail so the competent can surface. Giving capital to people who make bad decisions (those who bot the clunkers in the first place) is bad policy. We should reward those who make good decisions. Where's the stimulus money for people who didn't go into debt buying crap like clunkers? THEY should be getting rewarded, not the dummies. Then maybe the dummies will learn to do better.

This economy will not revive until people feel REALLY bad, they pay off their debts, they save money for real, they work hard and appreciate the fact they have a job and are SCARED they might lose it.  In short, a revival of the economy of the last 20 years is a big mistake.

A truly healthy economy runs on sound fundamentals, not feelings. This administrations emphasis on the "revival of credit" is hugely misplaced. IF we are to survive this god awful mess, it will be with money in the bank, a puritan work ethic, a turning back of the sense we are entitled to things, like healthcare, and freedom, that others must provide, and replaced with the sense that we must earn them, daily, ourselves.

Very well put.

Here we have yet another administration that values symbolism over substance. At least toward the general populace.
Cash for Clunkers program - $3 Billion  Certainly the loin's share of this money is to benefit auto industry, banking institutions and tax collectors.

Compare that to  TARP Bailouts so far:  $2.98 Trillion. 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123851108664173877.html

You can bet your bippy that tax increases and government public fee increases are coming big time.  Just look at the California model.  When the government borrows on the future, the banks profit and the people pay the tab.

[edbikerii]

Excellent, MCRider.  Excellent.

All programs like this can do is make people feel a little better now. I can't prove it in advance but I'm pretty sure we'll find they just cannibalize sales from the future.

That's the whole point.  Doing what we can to give the economy a jump-start now, because now is when we need it.  If it does have an effect on future vehicle sales it will be spread out over a much longer period of time than this program ran for, and won't cause any harm. 

And as far as just making people feel better, that's also part of the point.  People's perception of how the economy is doing has as much as, if not more, to do with the state the economy is in than most other factors.   

Sorry I must wholeheartedly disagree. Industries need to tie their production to a realistic analysis of demand, not to a trumped up artificial demand.

People feeling good is what got us here at least partially. When people feel good, they buy stuff they don't need with money they don't have (this goes for governments, and businesses as well, there is blame all around).

There is no value in jumpstarting an economy or an industry which has outlived its usefullness. The incompetents must be allowed to fail so the competent can surface. Giving capital to people who make bad decisions (those who bot the clunkers in the first place) is bad policy. We should reward those who make good decisions. Where's the stimulus money for people who didn't go into debt buying crap like clunkers? THEY should be getting rewarded, not the dummies. Then maybe the dummies will learn to do better.

This economy will not revive until people feel REALLY bad, they pay off their debts, they save money for real, they work hard and appreciate the fact they have a job and are SCARED they might lose it.  In short, a revival of the economy of the last 20 years is a big mistake.

A truly healthy economy runs on sound fundamentals, not feelings. This administrations emphasis on the "revival of credit" is hugely misplaced. IF we are to survive this god awful mess, it will be with money in the bank, a puritan work ethic, a turning back of the sense we are entitled to things, like healthcare, and freedom, that others must provide, and replaced with the sense that we must earn them, daily, ourselves.