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Author Topic: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ  (Read 1858 times)

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Offline russouno

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78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« on: July 16, 2009, 10:08:59 AM »
 ??? I have failed my emissions test 4 times now !! wtf
ok.. I have pods and larger jets and a 4 into 1 exhaust.
I started the test with air screws out 2 turns.. (to compensate with the pod/jets)
failed the HC portion by alot..
turned the screws in set at 1 turn out... took the test again (free this time)... failed again .. by much more..
paid my $19 again to take the test... this time with the screws out 3 turns( I figured by going the oposite way than what I started with it would get better)..
failed by just a little bit . HC
so now i'm thinking.. ok, just a bit more in the same direction... 3.5 turns out... this time I fail by more than any of the tests i've taken today!! ??  HC 
This isn't making sense.
Plugs are good, battery is charged..timing is right on stock settings.. everything is 'go'.. so what is going on here?
any ideas? i'm in Phoenix, AZ and I tell you what... sitting in the 113' sun isn't much fun while waiting for the damn testing.
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Drew75

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 10:54:49 AM »
Speaking of which, what are the standards out west in California? Do they actually test bikes older than 30?

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Offline Gordon

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 11:02:11 AM »
On a '78 turning the idle mix screws out should richen the mixture, so that seems backwards to me. ??? 

Are you taking the test with the engine at full operating temperature?

You may have to go into the carbs and do more than just mess with the mixture screws.  Smaller jet, lower needle...  I wonder if taking the test without the pods would get you that last little bit of leanness you need. 
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Offline climbingaz

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 11:06:50 AM »
Wish I had an answer for you, but I'll be watching closely for others' responses because....

I've also got a '78 750K and I'm in Tempe, AZ.  I'm still rebuilding the bike, but very curious about getting it to pass emissions once it is up and running.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 11:17:30 AM »
If you still have all the stock air box parts and stock jets, perhaps that would be the way to go.  Probably cost you a lot less in the end.


Or you could just move to Colorado where bikes are exempt from emissions testing. ;) ;D
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 11:22:28 AM »
Quote from: Gordon on July 16, 2009, 11:17:30 AM

Or you could just move to Colorado where bikes are exempt from emissions testing. ;) ;D

Or Michigan and you would be exempt from 113 F temperatures as well. As a matter of fact, we are already having the second coldest July on record and the month is only half over. Great riding weather though. ;)
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 11:25:57 AM »
While the screws do actually lean out the mixture, you will have to hack the test by changing your fuel to a mix of denatured alcohol and gasoline. You can buy stuff on the market also.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 12:48:14 PM »
After thinking about this, I'm curious. Just what emission standard are they checking you against? Does it accommodate the age/technology of the bike, or do they hold you to the same standard as contemporary machines? Seems like the latter would be impossible to meet.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 12:56:25 PM »
Yeah that's bunk, you should be able to get an exemption or an antique license to pass for an old bike like this?
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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 01:15:36 PM »
Maybe more info on how they do the testing would help. Do you have to rev the engine at all or is it all idle?
What color are your plugs? They should be a LIGHT tan very light, almost white really. Base setting is 1.5 turns out. How old are the plugs? If they have some use, maybe they are not putting out a strong enough spark to burn the gas. Have you checked your timing to make sure it is not retarded? If you have points, are they staying closed long enough and in good shape? All of that can affect your spark and by extension, fuel burning.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 02:26:00 PM »
I would not pass the HC portion if they tested it in NY. I am running 120 mains and I can smell it. To reduce them you will need to intoduce a lot more air into the cumbsution chamber or intoduce another "fuel" that does not produce hydrocarbons. The other thing he has against him is the 4-1. One dirty cylinder can crap up the test. I suggested alcohol as an alternative, Lots of it and have the tank down on reserve level. When you are done with the test, fill her back up with gas.   
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Offline bucky katt

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 04:43:46 PM »
or just move here where theres NO vehicle inspections of any kind  ;)
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Offline Shenanigans

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 06:42:20 PM »
I dont think this state has any accommodation for the age/technology of these bikes.
Last time I went to take my 73 CB750 (Which passed emission once already pretty well.) in and they told me to bring the idle down to 1000. It was would idle at an "indicated 1300" but I believe that the tach was reading a bit higher that it should. So bringing it down to indicated 1000 was actually around 700 and it did not run as smoothly and of course it failed.

I argued this with them for a while but it was like talking to a brick wall. I told them that this tach was 30 years old. I asked them to do it again with the idle higher (correct) and they refused then handed my the paperwork for a failed emissions with "fuel injector cleaner" circled. They seemed annoyed that I was taking up there time. So I went home and took the cable part out of my tach cable and went back the next day. The idle was set at an indicated 1350 before I took the cable out. It was actually idling at 1000 (ok 1050)
I got down there and they hooked the bike up, they never even looked at the tach and it passed by a considerable margin.
What I am trying to say is that most of them are idiots.

Maricopa county is the only county that does emissions on bikes. If you prove to them somehow that you live in Pinal county, say with a bill or something and go get it registered in Pinal county you don't have to worry about emissions.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 06:44:11 PM by Shenanigans »
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Offline KeithB

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 07:41:26 PM »
I am very surprised that they make you e test bikes that old!
Here in Toronto, you don't have to test cars over 20 yrs old and bikes are not even part of the e test law.
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Offline jaknight

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2009, 01:00:36 AM »
Phoenix......

.... is run by just about the biggest bunch of morons I have ever seen.

Yeah, yeah,.... I know it's not the city, it's the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors.  Most of the supervisors aren't fit enough to even try to sell popsicles.

My CB750 K4 has passed emissions six years straight now.  But, the idiots at the testing sites have little idea of what they are doing or what they are supposed to be doing.  One year, they tried testing me at high speeds on the rollers.  I said, "this old bike isn't supposed to be tested at high speeds,... low idle only."  The bike did not pass the high speed test.  A supervisor came out, talked to the technician, and told him I was not to take the high idle test.  I passed on the low idle test.

The problem is, even some of the supervisors do not know that these old bikes are to be given the low speed idle test only.  But, try to argue that one out with one of these idiots.

The whole thing is such a farce..... you can rig the bike going in there (just as you can with a car), and you can rig the bike after you leave there (just as you can with a car).  Blast it to flying fried squirrels, how I hate having to pay money out of my pocket that is just such a typical government waste....... espcially when I am going broke!

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« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 01:09:59 AM by jaknight »
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Offline Shenanigans

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2009, 01:39:19 AM »
The bill or law or whatever to have motorcycles except from emission testing has ALREADY passed but until they get "approval" from the E.P.A. (which for some reason takes them three years to approve?) they are still testing motorcycles. I heard that Maricopa county was the ONLY place in the entire U.S. that still emissions our bikes?
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   This pretty much sums it up.   76' CB592 cafe. 69 750 project, 03 CBR954, 75 750 super sport.

Offline russouno

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2009, 12:53:43 PM »
i'm in a situation now.. and seriously pi**ed off.
In Maricopa county in Phoenix, AZ a motorcycle emissions test is $19 (with one free if you fail)
I've been through this damn test 4 TIMES now @ $19 ea. No matter what the F**K I do I fail.. its not like the bike has been sitting around for decades slowly dying... i ride it about 1 week out of the month, every month, kept clean, fuel shut off and in the garage.
When I rebuilt the entire thing last year, it passed with flying colors without having to modify anything... all stock settings.
I was reading about using alcohol in the fuel, i've done this with a car before and it works.
the bike is a 78K and i've turned IN the screws completely and then out 1 turn.  ADVANCED the timing and I still fail.. HC reading is 2777 with the standard of 1800. 
The CO reading almost does not exist ! PASS @ .11 with the standard of 5.50
Burning my money would be easier than going through this damn test.....
As always any help would be appreciated! !!
Will RETARDING the timing help this and I have it backwards?? I turned the points plate COUNTERCLOCKWISE to ADVANCE the timing.. I thought that ADVANCING the timing makes it burn more completely?  WHAT IN GOD'S NAME AM I MISSING???
....i'm ready to curl up in the fetal position and cry...
:)
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2009, 01:29:10 PM »
Quote from: russouno on July 17, 2009, 12:53:43 PM
I was reading about using alcohol in the fuel, i've done this with a car before and it works.
I am sorry but if it worked for you before why not do it for your bike. You can rage against the machine all you want.  I would pather dump some alchohol in the tank than fiddle F**k around with settings i will have to reverse. I am a pragmatist, get her done and go on with your life.
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Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline russouno

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2009, 01:45:46 PM »
thats the problem... I have put the alcohol into the tank with about 1/2 gallon of gas.
still fails.
:\
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Offline climbingaz

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Re: 78 750k carbs and emissions AZ
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2009, 10:27:46 AM »
Quote from: russouno on July 17, 2009, 01:45:46 PM
thats the problem... I have put the alcohol into the tank with about 1/2 gallon of gas.
still fails.
:\

So what happened?  Did you eventually pass?
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