Author Topic: Rebirth of paulages' cb735  (Read 115176 times)

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Offline razor02097

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2009, 05:47:27 pm »
Hi Paul,
         Curious as to how you arrived at the "bracing" areas and how you determined what to use for bracing. Steering head, swingarm area are similar areas to bracing that was done on old superbike racers. Some of these handled badly after bracing and I know of one local CB550 racer that was braced and became a real handful to ride afterwards! I think you're on the right track as 70bhp and sticky tires will stress the old hoop but what constitutes a balance to build a good handling CB550?
          My old AHRMA CB350 racer with 47bhp was an interesting case. The frame is your std pressed steel affair spot welded together from the factory. Most of the guys would just weld up the seams and added bronze swingarm bushings. With these small changes (plus a steering damper just in case), the bike handled really well and would slide predictably under power. Seems almost unbelieveable since you could actually defect the swing arm with your arm. I think in the case of these bikes, a little flexing of the frame worked and there wasn't one particular area that was significantly stronger or more rigid.
           Very curious about frame mods as I am slowly building up a CB550 for serious cafe racer duty ( taking forever!!)

Kemp

I have seen many people brace the "triangle" on the older honda frames.   Not only would it help keep the subframe from flexing so much but it would give options in the future to mount things to the frame (its difficult to do so on round tubes.)

The DOHC CB750,900 and 1100 shared the same basic design in the back but Honda changed the spine to have 2 more tubes running down to the front of the frame.

Wonderful job paulages keep it up  :)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 05:50:56 pm by razor02097 »
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2009, 07:10:50 pm »
looks VERY good man!

where's the tank from?

Tg

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2009, 08:18:33 pm »
Looking nice Paul, keep it going ;) 8)

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Offline Zaipai

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2009, 08:24:09 pm »
Looking really good. Love the colors and the stance..
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Offline coldright

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2009, 08:58:34 pm »
Paul, that looks fantastic.  Can't wait to see it in the flesh, so to speak. 

Offline bwaller

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2009, 04:26:45 am »
I hope you haven't rolled a finger through that English Wheel.  ;) Cool tail.

Offline mlinder

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2009, 08:55:12 am »
looks VERY good man!

where's the tank from?

Tg

It's a duc tank.
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Offline moham

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2009, 07:41:02 pm »
That bike is ricockulous. Sicker than aids.

Really, really nicely done.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2009, 07:44:08 pm »
Paul,those CB 900 or CB 1100F shox?I have CB1100F on old 74 CB 750.Bill
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Offline Beans

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2009, 11:20:16 pm »
OK please tell me what rear sets are those and how are they mounted. do you have a close up pic. Im building a 74 cb550  as a track bike with some trick stuff but just looking around at different rear set options.
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Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2009, 03:04:20 am »
yes, i was in the boondocks for a few days, and though it was "deliverance" kind of remote,  avoided any skirmishes with the locals. well actually, i helped a friend who's building a new house, so i guess he counts as a local. anyway...

Hi Paul,
         Curious as to how you arrived at the "bracing" areas and how you determined what to use for bracing. Steering head, swingarm area are similar areas to bracing that was done on old superbike racers. Some of these handled badly after bracing and I know of one local CB550 racer that was braced and became a real handful to ride afterwards! I think you're on the right track as 70bhp and sticky tires will stress the old hoop but what constitutes a balance to build a good handling CB550?
          My old AHRMA CB350 racer with 47bhp was an interesting case. The frame is your std pressed steel affair spot welded together from the factory. Most of the guys would just weld up the seams and added bronze swingarm bushings. With these small changes (plus a steering damper just in case), the bike handled really well and would slide predictably under power. Seems almost unbelieveable since you could actually defect the swing arm with your arm. I think in the case of these bikes, a little flexing of the frame worked and there wasn't one particular area that was significantly stronger or more rigid.
           Very curious about frame mods as I am slowly building up a CB550 for serious cafe racer duty ( taking forever!!)

Kemp

all of the bracing i've done so far has been no-brainer kind of stuff, that has amounted to less than a couple pounds of weight. i used thin flat bar, just trying to stiffen the actual joints themselves (gussets), rather than trying to concentrate on re-design the stress forces of the frame. there's a great tony foale article out there about frame design and stiffening that i've referenced, but the link i have firefox says "may harm my computer," so i won't link it. anyway, i'm wary of doing any major bracing yet (cross bracing above the swingarm, beneath the steering head, or forward of the upper shock mounts) until i'm absolutely sure what i want. Turboguzzi and other racers have all advised me that the frame will outperform me on the track for some time, let alone on street. so... i may yet weld some tabs for bracing, but i'm being conservative for now. the race-built cb550 i have (built in the 70's) is so obviously over-done and heavy. i don't want to do the same.



looks VERY good man!

where's the tank from?

Tg

surprised you don't recognize it.  ;) it's from a late 70's ducati 900ss, the same as the fairing.

I hope you haven't rolled a finger through that English Wheel.  ;) Cool tail.

oh, i have. hurts like a mother#$%*er.

Paul,those CB 900 or CB 1100F shox?I have CB1100F on old 74 CB 750.Bill

i don't know for sure, but i thought they were 900F shocks. they're 14.25" free length. i was running them to try different steering angles. i like the stance a lot, and will be running 14" progressives with the triple trees dropped a little. previously, i couldn't get over about 105 MPH without getting a little wobbly up front, but now i'll have a steering damper.

OK please tell me what rear sets are those and how are they mounted. do you have a close up pic. Im building a 74 cb550  as a track bike with some trick stuff but just looking around at different rear set options.

those are the rearsets i'm making myself, which i'll eventually use. for now, i'll use tarrozzi units so i can at least ride this season. i stole the design from an old italian GP race bike made by a company called Paton. the mounts are just aluminum plate held in place by steel tabs welded onto the frame. i'll provide closeups whenever i remember to take pictures again... i seem to obsess over other things when i'm there.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 03:07:08 am by paulages »
paul
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1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
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Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2009, 03:27:28 am »
though unable to access the article on frame design, here is a great tony foale link:

http://www.lortim.demon.co.uk/reviews/Foale/index.htm
paul
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1974 CB550 (735cc)
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1972 NORTON Commando Combat
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Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2009, 12:57:05 am »
i wanted to simplify my rearset setup, so i'm converting my rear brake to be cable-operated. to do this, i cut the cable mount off of a scrap cb350 brake drum backing plate i had lying around, and welded it to my cb550 backing plate. the first pic is of the raw welds, and the second is cleaned up a bit. i was filling in the craters with more weld when one side of my breaker panel went dead, and the panel that feeds it is in another building. anyway, you get the idea...




i also made a fiberglass uphostery pan yesterday.

paul
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Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2009, 01:02:14 am »
i searched and searched for half fairing mounting pictures on the internet to get tips on how to do so and couldn't find a single one, so here are a few pics of how i attached mine.

the main bracket holding the headlight and front of the fairing:


behind the forks:


...and the rear mounts. the tank mounts are also visible here:


another shot of the fairing:

paul
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2009, 05:10:01 am »
Looks good Paul.

Measure twice, cut the ruler once.  ;D




Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2009, 09:03:53 am »
Looks good Paul.

Measure twice, cut the ruler once.  ;D





nice eye.  ;) my local hardware store has aluminum 3' rulers for one quarter the price of the same piece of flat bar the next aisle over. some kind of weird tool industry subsidies? chinese made? dunno, but i use the stuff all the time.
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2009, 12:01:36 pm »
I walk into the shop, and all the time, get to see Pauls work and progression first hand, and it always makes me happy. And a bit jealous. So cool.
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2009, 01:02:11 pm »
dont forget that you MUST make also a hinged (on the top sterring nut)  bracket for the top half of the fairing!

Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2009, 09:56:38 pm »
dont forget that you MUST make also a hinged (on the top sterring nut)  bracket for the top half of the fairing!

hinged? i'm confused as to what you mean... i plan to make a bracket to support the upper part of the fairing beneath the windscreen. is this what you mean?

paul
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Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2009, 10:00:42 pm »
got some goodies in the mail today! tarrozzi fork brace and rearsets (until i get around to finishing my own), and 14" progressive shocks. i finished my mounts for the rearsets and cleaned them up nice.





the cam timing is driving me crazy... is this really the same cam and sprocket i used before when i had it timed perfect? it seems no matter what, the slots aren't quite enough to get it in range, even if i skip a link and adjust in the other direction... anyway, once i get that figured out it's back in the bike and just waiting for loose ends.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 11:36:59 am by paulages »
paul
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Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2009, 10:59:22 pm »
i finally got the cam timed, but not before adapting my tools to be more accurate... i photocopied my timing wheel out to 12", and made a positive piston stop (which just confirmed that i had found TDC accurately before).




the engine is finally in the new frame. the seat is off to be upholstered. for whatever reason the guy i bought my fairing from (nice guy and member here) has been unable to get the windscreen in for a couple weeks now. he's loaning me a used one in the meantime, but i may run without the fairing if i have to.








the tarrozzi fork brace (listed as a "cb500 1978-79") that fits like a dream.


i still need to find a cable for the rear brake and relocate the wiring main junction, but it's getting close to the road.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 11:16:00 am by paulages »
paul
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2009, 05:54:44 am »
i finally got the cam timed, but not before adapting my tools to be more accurate... i photocopied my timing wheel out to 12", and made a positive piston stop (which just confirmed that i had found TDC accurately before).




the engine is finally in the new frame. the seat is off to be upholstered. for whatever reason the guy i bought my fairing from (nice guy and member here) has been unable to get the windscreen in for a couple weeks now. he's loaning me a used one in the meantime, but i may run without the fairing if i have to.








the tarrozzi fork brace (listed as a "cb500 1978-79") that fits like a dream.


i still need to find a cable for the rear brake and relocate the wiring main junction, but it's getting close to the road.
Yes...the larger the wheel the more accurate the timing. ;)
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Offline Zaipai

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2009, 05:59:35 am »
i finally got the cam timed, but not before adapting my tools to be more accurate... i photocopied my timing wheel out to 12", and made a positive piston stop (which just confirmed that i had found TDC accurately before).

She is coming along VERY nice.. I drool over your workshop and tools. Nice way to restore a bike!
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Offline paulages

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2009, 11:05:07 am »
Yes...the larger the wheel the more accurate the timing. ;)

i wish they made a 12" dial indicator though...  ::) it's just as easy to be a degree or two off by misreading the indicator.
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1972 NORTON Commando Combat
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Rebirth of paulages' cb718 bike
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2009, 12:30:26 pm »
Yes...the larger the wheel the more accurate the timing. ;)

i wish they made a 12" dial indicator though...  ::) it's just as easy to be a degree or two off by misreading the indicator.

dont worry, it just moves the powerband a few thousand revs up or down.... ;)

regarding the bearing, these old fairings need a bracket to connect the two top corners to somewhere fixed, otherwise the fairing twits like hell, it,s usually done with a braket that has a littl simple bearing in the midle and connects to the top steering stem nut.

look at any of the new ducati paul smart replicas.