Author Topic: Going to do a port Job.  (Read 15741 times)

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Offline Flying J

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Going to do a port Job.
« on: August 17, 2009, 07:26:26 PM »
Got a spare 550 head im going to port. I will try to do a real good do it yourself porting with pics. Any advise along the way will be great. This is my first attempt so im sure i will have questions.
Can i port the head keeping the guides in and still reuse them when i put it back together? OR just buy new guides?

Now for the Before Pics


Intake floor


Intake Roof

From the top


Exhaust Port
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 07:29:16 PM by ffjmoore »

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 10:12:48 PM »
Wow, that one's pretty bad! It looks like it somehow missed being touched by the Honda port people altogether. Usually, there are bowl cutter marks where that triangle of sand bubbles are now: the heads would get a minimum swipe with a ball-end mill bit to open those up, completely cutting open that triangle shape.

Don't overlook the valve seats: they are often recessed deeply into the head because the depth of the valve guides seemed to be all over the place on the 550 heads. The valves are short-stemmed, so the seat would get cut deeper to fit the valve if the guide was not deeply inserted. So, deshroud those valve seats, too, in the head, then CC the heads to make sure they are within about .2cc of each other in the end.
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2009, 07:04:31 PM »
"Every time I start thinking the world is all bad, then I start seeing people out there having a good time on motorcycles; it makes me take another look." -Steve McQueen

Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2009, 10:30:17 PM »
yes i like that post. i have read it a few times.

honda man, It took me a little bit to figure out what you meant. So what your saying is to do some work in the actual combustion chamber. Kinda like the hemi head you did? how do i CC the head after. That might be beyond me.
I am going  to try and do all of the Hondamans Mods to this bike. So far i have the 40 tooth sprocket on the back. I guess i could do the spring advancer in a short amount of time. Im going to drop in the 650 cam after its ported. Now for degreeing the cam im going to have to do some research.From what i have read i find TDC. Then i find the point that the the some valve opens .04", note the degree and then adjust the cam so that it opens .04", 5 degrees sooner. Correct? Ill do another thread when i tackle that one. How much more duration is the 650 cam and how far should i advance it? I see in one post you say 5 deg and another 3-4 deg.

Re cap.
How do you CC a head?
When all is said and done i should have:
          40 tooth rear sprocket
          Ported head
          650 cam
          Shortened spring advancer & adv timing 2 deg.
          adv cam (?)degrees

I also need to change over to D8ea plugs from the d7ea im running now.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2009, 07:03:47 AM »
yes i like that post. i have read it a few times.

honda man, It took me a little bit to figure out what you meant. So what your saying is to do some work in the actual combustion chamber. Kinda like the hemi head you did? how do i CC the head after. That might be beyond me.
I am going  to try and do all of the Hondamans Mods to this bike. So far i have the 40 tooth sprocket on the back. I guess i could do the spring advancer in a short amount of time. Im going to drop in the 650 cam after its ported. Now for degreeing the cam im going to have to do some research.From what i have read i find TDC. Then i find the point that the the some valve opens .04", note the degree and then adjust the cam so that it opens .04", 5 degrees sooner. Correct? Ill do another thread when i tackle that one. How much more duration is the 650 cam and how far should i advance it? I see in one post you say 5 deg and another 3-4 deg.

Re cap.
How do you CC a head?
When all is said and done i should have:
          40 tooth rear sprocket
          Ported head
          650 cam
          Shortened spring advancer & adv timing 2 deg.
          adv cam (?)degrees

I also need to change over to D8ea plugs from the d7ea im running now.

First, here's the 'simple' answers:
Try the Nippon Denso X24ES-U plugs instead of teh D8E range: that one is too cold for anything but track racing on a 500/550.
My article about advancing the cams is related to the 500/550 cams: I have note experimented with the 650 cams (sorry  :-[ ).
Timing: you've got the right ideas, there.

Head: the 550 is already a hemi. But, the valves are often sunk into the head because of the rush to build the engines. This leaves a little "step" around the edges of the valves, which you will see if you remove teh valve and look closely at the seat. I have actually seen these valves seats standing ABOVE the head, in some cases, a few that were flush, too, but mostly they are sunk down inside. If they are standing above, they won't need deshrouding (but could use a valve seat cutback and corresponding shim under the spring for that valve). If they are flush, you don't need to do anything. But, if they are sunken in, you can grind away that step all around the valve and get a lot more flow for free. The same goes for both intake and exhaust valves. My [past] experience with the 500 was that this was better controlled on those engines than on the 550s, at Honda. Almost every 550 head I have seen lacked the finesse of the 500 hand work, your particular one being the worst I've ever seen in the intake tract.  :o

CC'ing the heads: take a sheet of 1/8" to 1/4" thick plexiglass or acrylic (Home Depot will cut it to size for you for $1, at least here) and cut it a little larger than the shape of the head, so it will cover the chambers if you lay it across them. Drill 4 holes, about 1/4" size, so they are centered in each of the chambers as the plex lays on them (head upside down and levelled). Countersink the holes on one side: this will be the side toward you when working with it, so it is like a little funnel. (Note: you might want to have Hone Depot cut several for you: this stuff often cracks while drilling, and you have to buy a whole sheet, anyway...run the drill very fast, and press slowly, to semi-melt your way through the stuff, or grind a hole with a carbide bit and a Dremel tool.)

Now, the general idea is: you will take a syringe and add fluid to each chamber until they are full up to the little hole, recording how much fluid it takes. In real life, first you want to smear some Vaseline or grease around the edges of each chamber to help seal the plex, make sure the head is level, then stick the plex to the grease to make it stay in place. This is where the countersinked "funnel" comes in handy! I like to use ATF for this process, as it is red and easy for an old guy to see in a dimly-lit garage.

If you need a syringe, PM me and I'll send you one for $1 and postage: I have about 40 of them around here for paint mixing and CC'ing heads. I bought a box of 50 some years ago, at $1 each. I'm not going to say HOW MANY years ago, but they are a little sticky at first, so you need to move them a few times to smooth them out, now...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2009, 12:53:01 PM »
Thank you for that. it all makes a lot more sense. Ill try to take pics and post them along the way. One question. To keep the fluid in the head i need the valves in, but can i just slide them in or do i need to install the springs and all. Just dont want to put it all together and then have to do some more metal removing.

The one other mod i have is the Hondaman ignition. I have one sitting in my parts box and havent decided weather to put it on the 750f i bought it for or to drop it in the 550. May have to got with the 750 as im going to try and hide the electrics on my 550.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 01:04:13 PM by ffjmoore »

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2009, 03:04:52 PM »
Thank you for that. it all makes a lot more sense. Ill try to take pics and post them along the way. One question. To keep the fluid in the head i need the valves in, but can i just slide them in or do i need to install the springs and all. Just dont want to put it all together and then have to do some more metal removing.

The one other mod i have is the Hondaman ignition. I have one sitting in my parts box and havent decided weather to put it on the 750f i bought it for or to drop it in the 550. May have to got with the 750 as im going to try and hide the electrics on my 550.

If the valves seal REAL well, you may not need to put the springs in. The thickness of the ATF also helps in this regard, as the CC'ing process only takes a few minutes per chamber, and teh leakage is small.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2009, 03:48:34 PM »
Well while i have the valves out i may as well lap them back in right? Z1 had a lapper for $42 or there is one at Harbor freight for$3.99

now for lapping compound. there are all kinds on ebay from $12-$26. Do i need "the good stuff" or are they all the same?
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/__?_from=R40&_trksid=m39&_nkw=LAPPING+COMPOUND+&_sacat=

Offline 1timduke

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2009, 07:17:36 PM »
Would it be prudent to recut the valve seats, rather than lapping them?   My understanding is that lapping is an okay process, but actually cutting the seats to proper angles is better, resulting in a better seal and less turbulent gas flow?   I know that your DYIying this one and the cutting requires special equipment (and a learning curve :P).   You'll definitely need to address them some way since you're pulling them.   

I lapped mine with some $7 compound from autozone, no problems with it since.

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Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2009, 07:39:46 PM »
yeah, i can always have the valves cut by the local vintage Mechanic i guess if that would be the best.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2009, 09:45:47 PM »
You'll find that a short piece of rubber fuel line on the stem of the valvle works better than those valve cups.  ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline 1timduke

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 11:31:56 AM »
You'll find that a short piece of rubber fuel line on the stem of the valvle works better than those valve cups.  ;)

Nice tip Hondaman.   That lapping tool I had did slip around a bit.

-Tim
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Offline Aaron Richard

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 12:08:10 PM »
I just finished mine. Set aside a good amount of time for this job. it's going to take a while :P Good luck!

Offline mrosso

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 12:20:11 PM »
yeah, i can always have the valves cut by the local vintage Mechanic i guess if that would be the best.
Did you have a specific Vintage Mechanic in mind? Who is a good guy to go to in Fresno?

Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 08:50:24 PM »
Did  a little bit of porting today. I need to find some smaller tools to polish further in. I first started porting with all kinds of Harbor Freight crap. CRAP!!! dont waste your money. So i bought some $15 rotary files. Now thats the ticket. But i broke one in the first half hour. The other one has lasted so far. I also bought some flaper wheels. They clean up pretty good but they are still to big. What are you guys using to get those ports so shinny on the walls by the guide boss? Here are some pics of todays work.  
Removing the casting marks



Cleaning it up a bit



got the floor pretty good
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 08:53:29 PM by ffjmoore »

Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 08:55:28 PM »
here are the tools im using. I need something like the flapper wheel but that will fit next to the guide boss.


here is how it looks when i hit as much as i can with the flapper



you can see the red areas are nice but the green area needs some work and i cant get to it.


these are all the intake side

« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 09:05:29 PM by ffjmoore »

Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2009, 09:09:48 PM »
Now i started the exhaust since i couldnt get the intakes any better.



the bit i broke in the first 30 min.

bunch of worthless Harbor crap.

Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2009, 11:26:46 AM »
Ok I went and got some tapered sand paper bits and cleaned it all up. The pictures look a lot rougher then the ports actually feel. I think it will work much better then stock. Now i have to clean up my valves and then decide if i want to pay for a valve job or if i want to just lap them in. I guessing around $150 for a valve job and Free! for me to lap them in.
Now for polishing valves. What should i use? Ahh Ill just go do a search.

INTAKE




EXHAUST



RUNNERS

« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 11:30:13 AM by ffjmoore »

Offline Yoshi823

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2009, 12:30:02 PM »
When I started to read this thread I was reminded of an article in Cycle World many years ago about Jerry Branch of Branch Flowmetrics...
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=Branch+flowmetrics&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

But be wary of doing a porting job, gas flowing ....and just polishing up the ports bit.Take out too much and you can slow the ingoing charge, or cause the mixture to 'stick' to the port surafce.

Pop Yoshimura was one for 'gas flowing' a head...but it took years of experimenting and wasn't something you just do in your lunch break.Getting everything balenced was half the battle so that one cylinder dosn't work against another.
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Offline B.O.X.N.I.F.E.

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2009, 02:20:07 PM »
I've had this saved on my computer a while now:

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/cows-porting.html

long & short, until I have a flowbench in my house I'm not messing with it. It's one of the very, very few jobs I would outsource and let someone else do for me.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2009, 03:00:00 PM »
You'll find that a short piece of rubber fuel line on the stem of the valvle works better than those valve cups.  ;)

Nice tip Hondaman.   That lapping tool I had did slip around a bit.

-Tim
I really cheat by chucking the rubber fuel line into a variable spped drill, on real slow speed, I pull into the seat, reverse direction for a few quick pulls and done.

I'm not recommending it, just that i've done it.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2009, 03:41:15 PM »
i use a drill aswell,you can apply pressure with your finger,i done this to plenty of valves just dont spin it fast.

Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2009, 04:10:30 PM »
When I started to read this thread I was reminded of an article in Cycle World many years ago about Jerry Branch of Branch Flowmetrics...
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=Branch+flowmetrics&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

But be wary of doing a porting job, gas flowing ....and just polishing up the ports bit.Take out too much and you can slow the ingoing charge, or cause the mixture to 'stick' to the port surafce.

Pop Yoshimura was one for 'gas flowing' a head...but it took years of experimenting and wasn't something you just do in your lunch break.Getting everything balenced was half the battle so that one cylinder dosn't work against another.

im sure that things would work much better done by a profesional. I did not do much removal of material. And im pretty sure its going run better without all that crap Honda left in there.

Offline Flying J

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2009, 10:10:31 PM »
Ok after doing some reading i dont think i will be happy with lapping the valves in. Now my question is: Will these valves work? I have some close ups after i polished the valves up in a drill press using sand paper starting from 80 grit up to 400. When you get a serdi valve job do the cut the seats and the valves as well? This is all new territory for me.

INTAKE Before/After





EXHAUST Before/After




Offline Big Jay

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Re: Going to do a port Job.
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2009, 12:34:46 AM »
Send them down here, we will grind them for you and send them right back.

We are just down the road from you.

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