Topic: New Honda Fender Quaility

[jaknight]

Hi,

Thank you for what you have done Ashy, good to know that you did get a response from DSS.

My wife and I went out on the 750 yesterday to do several errands.  At one place I happened to park the bike in some bright sunlight (this is Arizona remember).  On that "new" front fender, at the leading front bead of it, the fender's front nose, I could see a very strong yellowish color........... the chrome is disappearing.  It looks like a new chrome job is in the works a little further down the road.  I paid a minimum of $185.00 smackers for that fender (probably well over $200 with the shipping from England to Arizona).  Now, I'm going to have to get it chromed again.  Think I can get it done for less than a $150.00 smackers?

By the way, the new seat showed up as I was typing one of my other posts.  The seat looks terrific.  I rubbed all areas of the seat really well with saddle soap before I put it on the bike.  Anything to help fight the fierce Arizona sun.

So, do we suck up and do what we can to be happy and still be able to get parts?  It looks like that's what we do and be happy that we have parts that we can re-chrome as needed......

I guess one of the pluses is that this is helping to make my 750 more precious to me with each passing day

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[kghost]

EMAIL REPLY FROM DAVID SILVER HIMSELF

Hello Ashley,
Thank you for bringing this discussion to my attention.
To be fair, we recieve no more complaints about vintage parts than we do on any other parts. Any complaint that we do recieve which are very rare and immeasureable as a percentage of sales and well within expectation for factory produced goods.
While it is anyones right to complain, it would be unreasonable to expect a company like Honda to invest large amount of capital in making new tools, changing chroming procedures etc.. for motorcycles that are over 30 years old. The net result of complaints may result in the parts being withdrawn from the market altogether which is in nobody's interst. If there is a major fault with a part then this obviously needs rectifying but as to minor issues and any perception that chroming quality has deteriated would not be best dealth with by a 'class action' complaint against Honda.
 
Kind regards
David

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ALL PRICES ARE QUOTED IN POUNDS STERLING (£)
 
Know the Honda part numbers you’re looking for?
You can check availability of any Honda part at:
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Thank you
David Silver Spares Ltd
PH: +44(0)1728 833020
FAX: +44(0)1728 832197
http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk

Just so you all know.....

The response I recieved from DSS in regard to the "rare" complaint I had was not helpful in the least.

I got a 400 muffler from them.

The problem I experienced was weld material in the mounting holes.

Pictures here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=35466.0

Basically I was told: Take it to an Engineer and we'll pay for it.

I informed them I WAS the engineer.

For a a part that about $100 bucks....It should fit.

Your experience may vary but I've not ordered from them again nor will I.

[burmashave]

I dunno. I think this is the rock and hard place deal. I consider us fortunate that we can still get OEM parts, even if they are expensive and substandard. Tooling for small runs is expensive, although flexible manufacturing should keep these costs somewhat reasonable. On the other hand, I fear that our replacement parts, although expensive, are not bringing decent profits to Honda. In the economic downturn, I fear that Honda may decide to produce fewer of these parts.

If we are to complain, or use some leverage, I feel that it might be best to try to work with vendors and manufacturers as much as possible (not that we haven't). Also, it might help to identify specific parts that seem to be lower in quality, while pointing out others that have remained in good quality. Doing so might help the manufacturers and vendors. It would definitely help us to know "good" OEM vs. "bad" OEM parts along with the reasons. I know I have lots of good OEM parts; however, I've got some chrome that causes me heartache.

Lastly, after doing my first cleaning this year, I think we're going to be doing more business with chromers, even if good ones are hard to find. I wouldn't mind having the name of a good chromer. I know Cycle Exchange does an engine cover swap business. Anyone heard about their quality?

[kghost]

I use an Aerospace chromer in San Antonio....

He doesn'r do wheels.....but everything else is top notch

[Johnie]

I use an Aerospace chromer in San Antonio....

He doesn'r do wheels.....but everything else is top notch

Agreed, I have an excellent chromer here.  He has done my KO & K1 to superior finish.  Consider yourself lucky if you have such a guy in your area. 
Back to the thread...I do consider myself lucky as do many of us to be able to still purchase the HM300's and HM341's among many other vintage parts.  That being said, I would rather take a part with a small dent or questionable chrome than to not have it available at all.  How many cars that are made in the 70's can you still get factory parts for...about none.  So I consider us pretty lucky indeed.

[AshimotoK0]

Perhaps Honda should just offer the parts unchromed, if it's too much of a hassle for them or as I have said before give the OEM the right to supply direct chromed or unchromed. It seems a shame that the seat quality is excellent yet the fender/exhaust quality is not. David Silvers are great, in my view, but the reply did not reflect the fact that they had to go through their stock of several front fenders to find me one which was of  decent quality.

I am getting my chroming done at Quality Chrome in the UK (local for me)- will post prices and quality/details when I get my parts back (includes genuine 750K0 rear fender).

[BobbyR]

The quality of many OEM replacement parts has slipped. This is because Honda is farming out the work ( for old bikes) to small vendors and not really paying attention to quality. Honda's response would probably be....Hey....at least we can supply the part for a 35 or 40 year old motorcycle.....don't complain.

Mike is spot on. It is likely that many of these parts are made in China or even Vietnam which China outsources to for lower production cost. As we can see from problems some of them serious with overseas products, that is what you are looking at. The same is probably true with current parts.

[AshimotoK0]

Sorry Guys but my returned fender (61100-300-040XW) and its replacement, both had labels 'Honda Genuine Parts' with 'Made in Japan' on the barcode part. (So definitely not China or elswhere manufactured)

[nippon]

Yes, of course we are happy that the parts are still available for our old bikes.
But it is a PITA to sell exhaust systems to customers. The best way to kill your business.
Mufflers are expensive and customers expect perfect quality for the buck. Should I tell them, 'Shut up'?
Take what's available?
A poor chrome at spots you cannot see is acceptable. But dents? Three times at the same place
on a muffler? No way! Think about the price. If I would be a customer, I would not accept it, too.
For my personal usage, I rechrome most parts. Much better quality instead of the soft and scratched
chrome on a new OEM fender. You can see this if you park your bike in the sun with a new fender on it.
The problem is, the poor quality control of OEM (chrome) parts, Honda just forward the problem to the dealers.
If your dealer is not correct, he will move the problem to the customer. Or he has to reship the parts to his own costs for an exchange, again and again.
I'm pretty sure, Honda knows the problem, because a lot of dealers sending back the inacceptable parts to them.
So they have two alternatives, stopping producing exhausts or improving the quality. But nothing of both alternatives
happen until yet. I do not understand it.

nippon

[AshimotoK0]

Perhaps when I have a minute I can write a 'diplomatic' email  to Honda Customer Service and see what respose I get. Or maybe better to try 'phoning. From what you are saying the poor quality is more evident than we would be led to believe by DSS. Watch this space. Don't worry I won't wind any one up and dry up our supply of new genuine parts!!

[AshimotoK0]

Below is the email reply from Honda Uk regarding my compaint that fender and Exhaust (muffler) chrome quality is poor and expressing our concerns that if we complain too much, we are concerned that Honda may discontinue the part altogether. Lets have a 'show of hands' of people who have had Honda part chroming issues and I will contact them again on our behalf. They seem more receptive than I thought they would be and I now have three names at Honda (UK) to speak to personally. I highlighted the point that many of you in the US are buying parts now from Europe because of the weak pound and it is very difficult to return your parts back for replacement. I did speak with one guy called Joe on the 'phone who was sympathetic and suggested I contacted his manager by letter (Michelle Hill is the Manager).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Ashley,

Thank you for contacting Honda (UK).
At Honda we pride ourselves on the quality of our products and therefore it is always disappointing to learn of any issues our customers may encounter. In reply to your concerns regarding the quality of our Genuine Honda Parts, we provide a manufacturers warranty with all Honda Genuine Parts and Accessories. We are sure you will appreciate that we are unable to comment specifically on the issues you have raised from the contents of an email. If you have purchased Honda Genuine products that are faulty as a direct result of a manufacturing or material defect then they can be returned to your authorised Honda dealer under the terms of the warranty.

In reply to your concerns regarding older parts, we stock parts up to 10 years after the end of production to enable customers to have access to these parts. It is of course difficult to forecast how many and which parts will be required post 10 years. It is also very expensive and not always feasible to continue to manufacture parts for older models. If there is a demand for our products we will endeavour to assist our customers where we can. Customer feedback is very important to us and we certainly would not discontinue a product due to negative feedback as outlined in your email.
Honda has operated a 100% warranty parts return programme with our authorised dealer network which involves every part replaced under warranty being returned to the originating factory for analysis. This allows us to continually monitor the performance and durability of products. We trust this demonstrates our commitment to our products and our customers.

If you have an issues with Honda Genuine Product and it is within the terms of the warranty please contact your authorised Honda dealer where the items were purchased. They are in a position to submit a claim under the terms of the warranty.

We hope this answers your enquiry and we thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

If you have any further questions or feedback, please complete our feedback form @ www.honda.co.uk or call our Honda UK Contact Centre on 0845 200 8000, Option 2.

Kind regards

Doug

Honda UK Contact Centre

 



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[Johnie]

Perhaps Honda should just offer the parts unchromed, if it's too much of a hassle for them or as I have said before give the OEM the right to supply direct chromed or unchromed. It seems a shame that the seat quality is excellent yet the fender/exhaust quality is not. David Silvers are great, in my view, but the reply did not reflect the fact that they had to go through their stock of several front fenders to find me one which was of  decent quality.

I am getting my chroming done at Quality Chrome in the UK (local for me)- will post prices and quality/details when I get my parts back (includes genuine 750K0 rear fender).

I also would not mind buying OEM parts unchromed, but that is because I have a quality chromer near my house.  It would not be acceptable to some guys I am sure.  An example is a new OEM KO fender of eBay was going for $239 not including shipping.  I got my original KO fender rechromed for $125 no shipping needed.  Better chrome than Honda can provide too.  Certainly the best deal for me was to rechrome.

[ken736cc]

 I was fortunate enough to own a Honda dealership from 1983 to 1998. I was at the dealer convention when Mr Honda gave a speech stating that " every part for every Honda motorcycle would always be available". We all know how things changed after he passed on.
 The following story may sound like an urban myth, but it is true.  Some time in the 1990's Honda Japan discontinued the fuel tank for the first generation GL1000. This was a simple black tank located under the seat. Even though it was discontinued, the part number and price remained in the parts price book. The dealer cost was about $260.00. After about 2 years, the part became available again. The new dealer price was $1000.00. I asked our sales and parts contact about this. He told me that a wealthy west coast lawyer with nothing better to do decided to sue Honda because he could not purchase a fuel tank for his now 20 year old Gold Wing. Honda's' response was to have 10 tanks custom made by an outside supplier. They just passed the cost along. It was now time for the complainer to pay up or shut up.
I don' t think anyone at Honda has the time for something like this today.

[BobbyR]

I think Ken has given some great insight into the environment. I work for a Japanese company which has a division that in fact makes Motorcycles. The Japanese use a complex network of subcontractcors, who in many cases then subcontract out to a wider network of independant contractors, some of who are truly 10 person operations.
I saw a documentary about this, and they showed a small group of people making headlight bezels for Toyotas in what would appear to be a 4-5 car garage. Some of the work was being performed outdoors. The point of the film was that these people were paid by the piece and recieved no benefits and lived on poverty level wages. The new fenders may be fabricated and plated in one of these little shops. The same may be true of the exhausts.
  

[Johnie]

Good point Bobby.  I just can not understand how Honda Quality Control (if they a QC department) can miss three separate HM300 pipes with dents.  That is what I got.  #3 pipe was ordered from my dealer and it took 3 times to find one without a dent.  They came from a Honda warehouse in Iowa.  The last one came with a note from the Iowa Honda warehouse that said I will have to pick the best one I can as that is their last HM300 #3 pipe.  Good customer relations???  Telling me to keep the best one I can find or I am out of luck.  Come on...I firmly believe there is no more QC on these products.

[BobbyR]

Good point Bobby.  I just can not understand how Honda Quality Control (if they a QC department) can miss three separate HM300 pipes with dents.  That is what I got.  #3 pipe was ordered from my dealer and it took 3 times to find one without a dent.  They came from a Honda warehouse in Iowa.  The last one came with a note from the Iowa Honda warehouse that said I will have to pick the best one I can as that is their last HM300 #3 pipe.  Good customer relations???  Telling me to keep the best one I can find or I am out of luck.  Come on...I firmly believe there is no more QC on these products.

Johnie, the dent is a very valid complaint to Honda. Is their warehouse and shipping operation such that parts are damaged in transit, in the warehouse or during shipping. If your exhausts are being damaged, how about fairings and other expenive parts from current bikes being mishandled. As both letters intimated(I found the DSS somewhat unaccepatble) they have us by the balls. They are under no obligation to provide parts for 30 year old bikes.

[Johnie]

Good point Bobby.  I just can not understand how Honda Quality Control (if they a QC department) can miss three separate HM300 pipes with dents.  That is what I got.  #3 pipe was ordered from my dealer and it took 3 times to find one without a dent.  They came from a Honda warehouse in Iowa.  The last one came with a note from the Iowa Honda warehouse that said I will have to pick the best one I can as that is their last HM300 #3 pipe.  Good customer relations???  Telling me to keep the best one I can find or I am out of luck.  Come on...I firmly believe there is no more QC on these products.

Johnie, the dent is a very valid complaint to Honda. Is their warehouse and shipping operation such that parts are damaged in transit, in the warehouse or during shipping. If your exhausts are being damaged, how about fairings and other expenive parts from current bikes being mishandled. As both letters intimated(I found the DSS somewhat unaccepatble) they have us by the balls. They are under no obligation to provide parts for 30 year old bikes.

Correct...they are under no obligation to provide parts for 30+ year old bikes.  However, they are making some cash on these parts too.  I have to admit the Honda Iowa warehouse only put them in a carbboard L shape box with plastic around them.  No bubble wrap at all.  They even told the dealer they will pack it better next time...it came the same way.  Maybe they are getting to the warehouse OK but the warehouse people are throwing this stuff around.  Hmmmm?

[AshimotoK0]

What I can't get my head around is how Yamiya can get hold of things like 750K0 'cut' front fenders 'Made from the original tooling' 'same manufacturer as original' and No number CB750 300 style pipes? I think I read somehere that the pipes are sourced from the Sankei factory at a stage before they are stamped?  if Honda do get their pipes from Sankei for Cb750's then this is no small 'backstreet' outfit. Going back to the fender, if the 'same manufacturer as original' is still around and has the original tooling then why can't Honda get a batch made for less than the 1150 USD Yamiya charge. Could it be that the K0 fenders are made from the same tooling as the later beaded type but somebody is hijacking the process before they are cut and beaded over?  Is this a question for my contact at Honda

61100300040XW K0/K1 front Fender Genuine from David Silver 150 USD
K0 Cut style early front fender from 'same manufacturer as original' via Yamiya 1150USD

Surely if Honda supplied a K0 style at double the price of the K0/K1 or even 3 times they could make a good profit - or are the number or K0's still around insufficient to warrant re manufacture?

I would like a K0 cut guard on my CB750 but there is no way I am paying 1150USD plus shipping from Japan to UK. My pitch on the phone to Honda UK was that I have already spent around 4000 USD already on Genuine Honda parts  in bringing back to life a bike which was in the first ever batch they imported into the UK. I may be 'flogging a dead horse' as we say in the UK but I am not a person who gives up the fight easily.  Let's see if we can get K0 fenders new again for less than 1150 USD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jaknight]

Hi AshimotoK0,

As in the past, I applaud your efforts here.

I agree with what some of the prior posters have said about your discourse with the Honda representatives.

Honda's reply is a nicely worded double talk rehash of the same policy that has been in place all along.  The customers (us) must work with the dealers who will, perhaps, keep sorting through the parts they do have,..... we keep paying shipping costs back and forth, work with time delays while the bike is perhaps immobile,..... keep trying to rein in our frustrations, keep spending good money for expensive parts that we all know, irregardless of what some say, Honda is making a very good profit on, otherwise, Honda would drop them in a heart beat......etc., etc.

Honda's reply very much reminds me of when I was in the US Military service during the Vietnam War........... "We are not doing body counts, we are counting corpses."

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[BobbyR]

Having worked for major Corportaions including the US Army, they do not think as we do. On a spreadsheet we are a flyspeck. I was at the dealers today to pick up four rear wheel dampers and an O ring. He was readying his forth Honda Fury for pick up, and the next one in is already spoken for. I would say Honda is more interested in the Fury sales than my $50.00 sale. Corporate types do not share our passion. Mr. Honda did, but the suits in control now could not give a crap. BTW the Fury looks better in person than in pictures. I am considering buying one. 

[Raul CB750K1]

Sorry for bringing this topic back from the dead.

I just received a box from David Silver today. Among other things, came the points cover I ordered. When I saw it I couldn't help but remember this thread.

The first thing that caught my attention was that it doesn't shine. It has not been polished before chroming like the old one was -pity that I dropped the bike-. The old points cover was usable but I couldn't live with those scratches.

The "Honda" engraving is also of much less quality. I hope the picture will clarify.

For a second I thought that maybe DSS was making parts by himself -or farming out- in order to either -or both- get a higher profit, or selling parts no longer available from Honda.

I also ordered a blinker lens. What I didn't like is all the new letters stating all the modern DOT and CE approvals. The rest of the lens is just the same.


But the points cover came in a genuine Honda bag. It is clear is sold by Honda. Would I have loved that it would be as shiny as the old one? of course yes. But I rather have this one than nothing.


This are cosmetic parts, and even if they are not what we would like, they are good enough to have our bikes on the road. The same goes with swiths, control cables and the like. People complain if the "speedo clip" rubber is black instead of grey, or the clutch cable is grey instead of black, or the kill switch is red instead of black. But the fact is that Honda still provides a part that performs the same function and that keeps our bikes on the road.


On the other hand, the headlight ear I ordered came with a perfect paint.

Cost saving is the sign of the times. Still, I thank Honda for making these parts and selling them outrageously expensive!

[AshimotoK0]

Anyone ordered Genuine K1 rear shocks and rear fender from DSS - Genuine Honda parts -If so what was the chrome like? You have me worried again now as I need new to order Genuine K0/K1 shocks are they are about 250GBP including tax from Silvers.
BTW why couldn't Honda just sell an undrilled rear fender instead of just the K1 USA variant, which does not fit the lampholder correctly for UK bikes not to mention all of the '341' variant bikes? how many K2-K6's are there out there crying out for new rear fenders? Rechroming of this in the UK comes out at 70GBP plus postage both ways So including VAT you are talking 100GBP.

[BobbyR]

Sorry for bringing this topic back from the dead.

I just received a box from David Silver today. Among other things, came the points cover I ordered. When I saw it I couldn't help but remember this thread.

The first thing that caught my attention was that it doesn't shine. It has not been polished before chroming like the old one was -pity that I dropped the bike-. The old points cover was usable but I couldn't live with those scratches.

The "Honda" engraving is also of much less quality. I hope the picture will clarify.

For a second I thought that maybe DSS was making parts by himself -or farming out- in order to either -or both- get a higher profit, or selling parts no longer available from Honda.

I also ordered a blinker lens. What I didn't like is all the new letters stating all the modern DOT and CE approvals. The rest of the lens is just the same.


But the points cover came in a genuine Honda bag. It is clear is sold by Honda. Would I have loved that it would be as shiny as the old one? of course yes. But I rather have this one than nothing.


This are cosmetic parts, and even if they are not what we would like, they are good enough to have our bikes on the road. The same goes with swiths, control cables and the like. People complain if the "speedo clip" rubber is black instead of grey, or the clutch cable is grey instead of black, or the kill switch is red instead of black. But the fact is that Honda still provides a part that performs the same function and that keeps our bikes on the road.


On the other hand, the headlight ear I ordered came with a perfect paint.

Cost saving is the sign of the times. Still, I thank Honda for making these parts and selling them outrageously expensive!

That really is a crappy job. To look at how badly defined the letters are you would think it was a knock off. 

[Johnie]

I have bought 2 points covers from Honda and both were shiny chrome.  Can not understand why DDS would send un-shiny chrome.