Author Topic: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?  (Read 2251 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Laminar

  • Retsam
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,632
Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« on: August 17, 2009, 11:30:40 AM »
To make a long story short(er), after a long ride in the rain, my '83 Nighthawk 550 was cutting out above 6000rpm or so. It would occasionally stutter all the way up. Sometimes it would rev cleanly, and sometimes it wouldn't.

I dug into it - cleaned out the air filter box (the air filter was a bit dirty), checked plugs, wires, spark, pulled off and cleaned out the carbs, cleaned the petcock, cleaned out the fuel line/filter, cleaned and packed all connections with dielectric grease (the connector from the wiring harness to the coils was loose), and checked for compression.

Everything seemed to check out (besides that connector). After putting everything back together, the bike wouldn't start at all. It backfires through the exhaust and the intake, occasionally throws fire out the exhaust, and sounds pretty bad. I hooked up my timing light and it's indicating that during cranking (and for the second or two that the bike seems to run after letting off the starter button) it's firing somewhere between the F and T marks.

The cam chain has been loose and rattling around since I got the bike 5000 miles ago. Fixing the automatic tensioner (requires pulling valve cover, oil lines, etc.) was on my to-do list for this next month already (along with replacing that weeping valve cover), but it seems like I might have been too late.

I have fuel, I have spark, I have air (I tried with and without the air filter, no change), and I have compression. I'm not sure what else it could be, unless there's something simple I'm missing. My best guess is that somewhere in trying to start it after fixing the cutting-out problem, the cam chain managed to jump a tooth or two. Is there any way to check this before I start pulling the engine apart?

Offline HavocTurbo

  • Angry little bastard of an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,739
  • Can you tell?
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 02:34:27 PM »
Not really no. Other than the procedure listed in the manual.

I agree-
Sounds to me the loose chain got skipped over during a cranking cycle. Happens sometimes.
I've done it a couple times on my duc drag bike. But that was a belt so... :-\
'48 HD Panhead - Exxon Valdez
'78 CB550K - Fokker CB.3
'78 Honda CB750K - Mavrik
'80 Yamaha XS850G - Kanibalistik
09 XL883L - No Name

Offline Laminar

  • Retsam
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,632
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 03:17:14 PM »
Well the wire harness connectors came today for my '76 (ordered Saturday afternoon, received today...well done Oregon Motorcycle Parts), so do I work on that or do I dig into the Nighthawk?

Offline Laminar

  • Retsam
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,632
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2009, 04:28:16 PM »
Cam chain jumped a tooth. I ordered a new valve cover gasket and I'm digging into the cam chain tensioner now to prevent this from happening again.

Offline tomsweb1

  • '78 CB750A
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
  • '78 CB750A
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2009, 04:34:10 PM »
Hey! I'm glad you can fix yours! I had the most fun ever riding on my Nighthawk 550. Good luck!
Present: 1978 CB750A, 1978 CB400A, 1983 Nighthawk 550, 1984 CM250C

Past: 1977 XL100, 1982 KZ1300

Offline tomsweb1

  • '78 CB750A
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
  • '78 CB750A
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2009, 05:48:06 PM »
oh, do yourself a favour! Make sure the bolts on your #2 conn rod are tight! I've seen two engines that the bolt fell out of, personally. I've heard of it happening to many others. You only have to take off the exhaust and an access panel on the bottom to get to it! It's cheap insurance....
Present: 1978 CB750A, 1978 CB400A, 1983 Nighthawk 550, 1984 CM250C

Past: 1977 XL100, 1982 KZ1300

Offline Laminar

  • Retsam
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,632
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2009, 08:27:31 PM »
So there's an access panel in the oil pan? Got any pictures?

Offline tomsweb1

  • '78 CB750A
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
  • '78 CB750A
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 08:37:21 PM »
Well, really, the oil pan IS the access panel, but it's small enought that you don't have to pull the engine. You only have access to the inside two cylinders. You only need to get to #2, though. Must have been a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, I don't have any pics, and the old girl is in storage right now, so I can't get any.
Present: 1978 CB750A, 1978 CB400A, 1983 Nighthawk 550, 1984 CM250C

Past: 1977 XL100, 1982 KZ1300

Offline Alan F.

  • We remember the Night Rider, and we know who you are.
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,347
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2009, 05:33:48 PM »
I like reading posts on this bike, it's on the list for my next project, just really stripped down and lightened.  Keep 'em going guys.

Offline Laminar

  • Retsam
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,632
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 06:34:47 AM »
No good news here.

I pulled everything apart, re-timed the cams, put it back together, and nothing. No popping or firing or anything. I have good spark, and there is a little bit of a difference cranking with the kill switch on and off, but it's not starting.

My fear is that I should have bled all of the tappets but didn't. I really need to get this bike fixed, but I'm not sure where to go from here.

Offline tomsweb1

  • '78 CB750A
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
  • '78 CB750A
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 02:44:25 PM »
pretty sure bleeding the cams upon disassembly is imperative! But, I would think it should at least try to fire. Are you sure the cam is correct? it could look right 180 degrees out.
Present: 1978 CB750A, 1978 CB400A, 1983 Nighthawk 550, 1984 CM250C

Past: 1977 XL100, 1982 KZ1300

Offline Laminar

  • Retsam
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,632
Re: Did my Nighthawk's cam chain jump a tooth?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 02:50:55 PM »
pretty sure bleeding the cams upon disassembly is imperative! But, I would think it should at least try to fire. Are you sure the cam is correct? it could look right 180 degrees out.

I followed the manual exactly - timing was set at the T mark with the lobes for cylinder 1 pointing upwards, which is how they were installed when I disassembled.

I suppose if there's air in the tappet high pressure chambers then the valves aren't actually opening. What a PITA.