Topic: Duplicolor Paint Shop System paints

[bucky katt]

they look nice theyre easy to apply, being an automotive paint, you'd think they were fuel resistant too. NOT the case at all. it has been 8 months since i painted/sanded/buffed the paint out and today while putting gas into the tank i spilled a little, i had rag in hand in less than 5 seconds and i wiped right through the clear to get silver on the rag. i'm not touching the paint right now though. it's been way too long of a project and i want to ride now. any suggestions for a decent, fuel resistant paint that a relative painting neophyte can apply with his 49.95 lowes paint gun?

[mystic_1]

Paint Shop System is a single stage paint.

Use a catalyzed two-part paint and you'll be good to go.

mystic_1

[Retro Rocket]

I have spilled plenty of fuel on acrylic one stage paint before and NEVER had any problems. Makes me wonder what they {duplicolor} are doing with auto motive paints these days. It is very easy to spill fuel onto your paint with either a bike or car, so this puzzles me. Could it be that its ethanol in the fuel...?

Mick

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah that's weird Fuzzy, I painted cars "part time" for years and any good acrylic laquer (from which Duplicolor is derived) will stand up to paint spills after a week of curing in reasonably warm weather. Looks like you just got a dud can.

I'm very fond of 2 pack (catalyzed polyurethane) paint, but it is deadly, full of nasty carcinogens that will kill you if you don't wear a breathing mask. For that reason alone, I don't like to recommend it to inexperienced or ill-equipped painters.

I'd suggest that when you repaint it, go to an automotive paint supplier and get one of their free "how to" sheets, it'll tell you the correct type of primer, thinner, paint and clear coat to use, remembering that "solid colors" (non-metallics) don't require clear coating. Cheers, Terry.  

[manjisann]

I'm very fond of 2 pack (catalyzed polyurethane) paint, but it is deadly, full of nasty carcinogens that will kill you if you don't wear a breathing mask. For that reason alone, I don't like to recommend it to inexperienced or ill-equipped painters.

+1, that Isocyanate is some nasty nasty stuff 

This is why I went with Kustom Shop paint. It's urethane based but so far none of the stuff i have used has Isocyanate in it, and that includes the catalyzed primer. That being said, I still wear a Fresh Air mask I built.

Prior to choosing to spray with Urethane I wondered if I could use Duplicolor primer and topcoat and then clear over it with a urethane based catalized clear. Post exactly what you used and if I can find the stuff I'll shoot a test panel and clear over it with the stuff I have. This way if you decide you want to try it, you'll know at least one product that works (or doesn't.) Also, I am putting together a thread on my experience with this Urethane paint, if you are interested. All the guns I'm using are the low end HVLP guns, so nothing fancy.

HTH

Brandon

[Aaron Richard]

i've used that paint and didn't care for it. It never seemed to feel completely cured. Try this site. I bought some urathane clear from them and it worked well.

http://www.paintforcars.com/

[ColinMc]

It's cheap crappy laquer paint...no matter what primer you use or how you spray it, it's going to fade, peel, crack and be destroyed if fuel even touches it.

ANY paints you use without proper breathing protection are bad for you, a simple 20 dollar 3M respirator will protect you just fine from an modern automotive paints.

THE best finish you can use for motorcyle gas tanks is base coat clear coat, urethane based, and make sure the clear is fuel proof. Most automotive paints are simply "fuel resistant" not fully fuel proof.

There is a lot of misinformation out there about automotive paint

[Terry in Australia]

It's cheap crappy laquer paint...no matter what primer you use or how you spray it, it's going to fade, peel, crack and be destroyed if fuel even touches it.

Not true. All cars (and bikes, including our SOHC's) built from the 1920's to the 1990's were painted with laquer and if properly painted and cured, were not affected by fuel.

Yes there were exceptions, I watched the proud owner of a brand new Norton Commando 850 spill gas on his tank the first time he gassed it up, and the new OEM Norton paint lifted, but the only other times I've seen that happen were with "backyard" amatuer paint jobs.

And yes, there is plenty of "misinformation" out there, but not from me. Cheers, Terry.

[mystic_1]

Ah, but are all lacquers the same?  Is Duplicolor paint shop paint the exact same thing as lacquers that were available between the 20's and the 90's? 


mystic_1

[lrutt]

I use this place. Great price and on the 3 bikes I've done with their paint, zero problems. I use the Acrylic enamel with hardner in both the paint and primer. It's enamel so it's tough, goes on easy, and did I say it's a great price for a gallon kit?

http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/

[ColinMc]

Ah, but are all lacquers the same?  Is Duplicolor paint shop paint the exact same thing as lacquers that were available between the 20's and the 90's? 


mystic_1

That is more what I was getting at I suppose. The Duplicolor stuff is cheap cruddy laquer...even more crappy than the stuff that was used from the factories years ago...i work around guys that have been in the body shop business and/or painters for years and they all say that two stage, or at least catalized colors are the best thing that ever happened to the paint industry and NONE of them would paint laquer ever again. I've sprayed it once, and was appalled but I guess i've been spoiled by urethane single stages and two stage basecoat clear coat systems. Lol.

We sell that duplicolor stuff and i've had countless people come back complaining about it. In comparison the paint I mix and sell, very few complaints and the volume I do is WAY more than the few quarts of that Duplicolor stuff here and there.

[ColinMc]

And yes, there is plenty of "misinformation" out there, but not from me. Cheers, Terry.

Lol, no offense meant by that...all I was referring to was how scared people are of modern catalized paints...saying they are super bad for you. I was just saying it's nothing a cheap but good respirator can't solve(NOT A SHEET ROCK MASK!!!!). I have a full face one that was more money so I can wear my glasses and so my whole face is protected. Then I just wear cheap disposable coveralls for auto paint. Rubber gloves up over the cuffs of the coveralls, old boots...done and done. My friends call it my "Moon Man" outfit.

[manjisann]

Lol, no offense meant by that...all I was referring to was how scared people are of modern catalized paints...saying they are super bad for you. I was just saying it's nothing a cheap but good respirator can't solve(NOT A SHEET ROCK MASK!!!!). I have a full face one that was more money so I can wear my glasses and so my whole face is protected. Then I just wear cheap disposable coveralls for auto paint. Rubber gloves up over the cuffs of the coveralls, old boots...done and done. My friends call it my "Moon Man" outfit

I want to point out that if using anything with Isocyanate in it, it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED BY EVEN THE MASK MANUFACTURERS that you use a fresh air mask. I did a LOT of research on this and emailed a few, and NONE of them had cartridge masks that they would say to use for these.

If not using Isocyanate bearing products, then a good cartridge mask is an ok way to go.

The Duplicolor stuff is cheap cruddy laquer...even more crappy than the stuff that was used from the factories years ago...i work around guys that have been in the body shop business and/or painters for years and they all say that two stage, or at least catalized colors are the best thing that ever happened to the paint industry and NONE of them would paint laquer ever again. I've sprayed it once, and was appalled but I guess i've been spoiled by urethane single stages and two stage basecoat clear coat systems. Lol.

We sell that duplicolor stuff and i've had countless people come back complaining about it. In comparison the paint I mix and sell, very few complaints and the volume I do is WAY more than the few quarts of that Duplicolor stuff here and there.

I am not disputing what you are saying, but it is my experience that people who work "in the biz" often are so used to what the higher end products can do that the lower end ones seem like crap. I am not nocking your knowledge or skills, just pointing out that those of us who do not have them may be perfectly happy with a rattle can job. I've read quite a few writups where people used duplicolor and were very pleased with it. That being said, I decided to go with Urethane as I didn't like the idea of spending a lot of time on a paint job getting it cherry, only to have it ruined the first time I spilled fuel on it.

lrutt, I used the Kustom Shop line through TCPglobal and so far am pretty happy with it. What line did you use?

Brandon

[ColinMc]

I THINK, and i'll do some research...but I think that Martin-Senour/Sherwin Williams current lines of automotive paint are Isocyanate free? I'll look into that today though. The only one I think might is the Prism line of Polyurethane single stage paints...

[bucky katt]

the main reason i used the duplicolor paint was that theres no mixing involved, just shake, then stir it good, pour it into a gun and go.

[ColinMc]

OV P95 certified respirator devices are fine to use with Isocyanate paints.

They OSHA certified for use with Isocyanate containing paints. 3M sells all sorts of cheap respirators that are more than certified to use with any paints(Isocyanate and craploads of other bad things lol). They recommend replacing them every 2 weeks once exposed to any Isocyanates.

They only recommend fresh air systems if the exposure level is over a certain amount...ie: if you are working in an actual body shop as apposed to just spraying at home every once in a while.

The problem with Isocyanates isn't always the initial exposure, it's the fact that they break down the filters once the filters are exposed to them. So it will destroy the filters even if you just spray once then put it away for a couple weeks...any paint will do this but Isocyanate based ones just do it quicker. 3M officially endorses their OV-P95 certified filters for use with Isocyanate based paints in any non-productions sized shop, or in the case of a shop sized facility, measurements must be taken for exposure and filters replaced more often.

EDIT: from the quick MSDS research I did pretty much anything that has a hardener and is any good has Isocyanates in it lol

[manjisann]

EDIT: from the quick MSDS research I did pretty much anything that has a hardener and is any good has Isocyanates in it lol

Bummer, guess the paint I'm using is crap   

OV P95 certified respirator devices are fine to use with Isocyanate paints.

They OSHA certified for use with Isocyanate containing paints. 3M sells all sorts of cheap respirators that are more than certified to use with any paints(Isocyanate and craploads of other bad things lol). They recommend replacing them every 2 weeks once exposed to any Isocyanates.

They only recommend fresh air systems if the exposure level is over a certain amount...ie: if you are working in an actual body shop as apposed to just spraying at home every once in a while.

The problem with Isocyanates isn't always the initial exposure, it's the fact that they break down the filters once the filters are exposed to them. So it will destroy the filters even if you just spray once then put it away for a couple weeks...any paint will do this but Isocyanate based ones just do it quicker. 3M officially endorses their OV-P95 certified filters for use with Isocyanate based paints in any non-productions sized shop, or in the case of a shop sized facility, measurements must be taken for exposure and filters replaced more often.

Interesting, I wonder if I still have the email I sent them and they replied. Well, this is why this forum is so cool, misinformation will often be found and sorted out. Either way, since I built my fresh air mask, I wouldn't go back, but had I known about these cartridge ones I might have used one of them instead.

the main reason i used the duplicolor paint was that theres no mixing involved, just shake, then stir it good, pour it into a gun and go.

The urethane paints are surprisingly easy to mix as they come with ratios ie 4:1 for this 3:1 for that and with the disposable mixing cups on the market it's already printed on the cup. I don't think I've had a single issue I can contribute to a mixing issue, unless it was just me not paying attention. Not trying to say don't use duplicolor, just pointing out the ease of mixing urethanes.

Brandon

[ColinMc]

Lol, well we are both finding out a bunch from each other...regardless freshair is the way to go...no way around it. I plan on making the switch when I have to the time to make a system myself. I called 3m's safety and exposure line or something after talking to my 3M rep, and him referring me to them for specific info. They even had info about swine flu LOL. Obviously they recommend freshair systems for painting no matter what kind of paint you use, but they also told me in very specific terms that you can use any of their OV-P95 systems with any paints but with the worse stuff you have to be VERY dilligent about replacing the filter media.

Haha, I didn't mean that any paint without them is crap lol...but from your smiley faces i'm assuming you know I didn't mean quite how that came out.

I am in complete agreement with you about urethane enamel setups, mixing cups are super easy to use and it's just an extra step and will give you MUCH better results no matter how you look at it. A LITTLE more money, but not too bad. Depends heavily on the color sometimes.

[bucky katt]

well, the re-paint isnt happening for a while. my k4 has been on the lift in my garage for almost 18 months and it's time to ride. but when i do, i'll look at the polyurethane paints. maybe the por15 for the frame.

[manjisann]

Haha, I didn't mean that any paint without them is crap lol...but from your smiley faces i'm assuming you know I didn't mean quite how that came out.

Heh, I knew what you meant, just had to point it out 

well, the re-paint isnt happening for a while. my k4 has been on the lift in my garage for almost 18 months and it's time to ride. but when i do, i'll look at the polyurethane paints. maybe the por15 for the frame.

I just finished spraying my frame, and I'm not sure I'll ever paint a frame again! The biggest problem I ran into was when I was spraying the clear, the overspray would stick to the other side and make it look grainy. If I ever do another full build, I'll likely send the frame out for plasticoating.

Now, if someone could tell me how to prevent the issue of overspray, I'd try tackling a frame again. Also, touchup guns are your best friend when spraying a frame, the full sized ones can't get everywhere a touchup one will.

Brandon

[ColinMc]

Try using a slower reducer so the clear will melt with the clearcoat you've already sprayed...slippery slope though because then you run the risk of...well, runs. I've done quite a few motorcycle as well as bicycle frames and the trick with the clear is to keep moving and get a full coat before any of it has tacked up...so it "melts" into whatever is there already.

[Retro Rocket]

Isocyanates are absorbed through the skin as well so your entire body should be covered as well. I have been using 2 pak paints since they were introduced years ago, but in saying that, i still also use acrylic lacquers and have never had a problem with fuel eroding the finish on either bikes or cars,just use good quality paints.

Mick

[Freaky1]

I will always just powdercoat frames, lasts longer and no worries about chips or dings during assembly.

[78whiteorbs]

I was just lurching around reading and I came across this thread. I am gonna be painting my cafe project and had planned on the paint shop acrylic lacquer as for one it is cheap and I am on a budget and two it's easy to use and three you can get nice results . Now I have used Rustoleum enamel before to roll and tip an old boat with excellent results, take a look here

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=289267

This project I wanted to step it up a bit and I bought a cheap siphon feed spray gun at autozone . I was concerned with the spilled gas and how the acrylic lacquer would hold up and read this thread and kinda frowned. Who wants to spend all that time sanding and priming only to have what Bucky had happen to him.....

Then I read this :

http://www.anthonythomas.com/garage/forums/showthread.php?t=410

so this 2k clear aerosol here http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm   seems to be the ticket. That is what I am gonna do and we'll see how it turns out.

[Freaky1]

so this 2k clear aerosol here http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm   seems to be the ticket. That is what I am gonna do and we'll see how it turns out.

I picked up a couple of cans of that stuff and wow, I'm very impressed, it looks great. How well does it hold up to gas and such I'm not sure yet because I haven't got that far yet but this stuff looks and feels great. It comes out pretty thick and just like most paints you need to be patient but you can feel the weight difference after. I painted all my sheetmetal with puff cans and this made it look and feel like I did it the right way all the way. My buddy spent 2 grand having his bike painted by a friend and he's pissed now looking at how well mine came out.