Author Topic: Aftermarket frame diagrams (Read 2645 times)

twowheellord · « **on:** August 23, 2009, 11:57:35 am »

I am interested in building a new frame for my Honda cb750. What I would like to know is how do you get plans or diagrams for say a seely, egli, or bimota frame. Would any of you guys have such information or know how to get it. I would love to build a replica frame but I don't know where to get the diagrams.

Soos · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:21:52 pm »

I would talk to Mec, he made his own frame.
Spectacular build if you haven't come across his thread yet.

l8r

bucky katt · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:22:14 pm »

it is a drool inspiring build. iwsh i had 1/10th the fab skills

754 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:28:37 pm »

If you are ready to build a frame, you dont need someone elses plans..

mystic_1 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:43:53 am »

Quote from: 754 on August 23, 2009, 09:28:37 pm

If you are ready to build a frame, you dont need someone elses plans..

Unless you....

Quote from: twowheellord on August 23, 2009, 11:57:35 am

would love to build a replica frame

mystic_1

Sporkfly · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2009, 01:05:49 pm »

Pictures say a lot. If you can make it *look* like the desired frame, you can set your own frame specs... You don't need a diagram for that

hapakev · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2009, 07:49:30 pm »

Quote from: mystic_1 on August 24, 2009, 04:43:53 am

Quote from: 754 on August 23, 2009, 09:28:37 pm
If you are ready to build a frame, you dont need someone elses plans..

Unless you....

Quote from: twowheellord on August 23, 2009, 11:57:35 am
would love to build a replica frame

mystic_1

LOL

tinyrobot · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2009, 07:05:42 am »

Satanic Mechanic (RIP) also has lots of info on Seeley, Bimota and other custom bikes on his website. If I were to build a replica custom frame I too would want the original plans. Then tweak them from there, but you have to start some where.

754 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2009, 09:49:49 am »

I dont know if you ever noticed...

but people that build stuff like that, generally dont give out or sell the plans.. for a few reasons.. some obvious.. some not so obvious..

ever notice you dont seem to see plans for sale for How to build a Crvette or a Maserati either?

its not really like the Popular Mechanics "How to build a Mini-Bike using a starter motor".. as far as skill level is concerned..

mystic_1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2009, 10:19:21 am »

I'd guess people who build replicas either measure out an original and do up their own plans, or use plans from someone else who has already done this.

mystic_1

754 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2009, 10:45:45 am »

Crawling all over an original, gives a better insight than a set of plans.

The basic problem is they are usually built by highly skilled people and well thought out.

Often when people copy, they do not understand every aspect of why and what material, and welding process & heat treating (some frames) was used. Then they try to cut corners (easier or dont have right equipment) and sustitute materials (cheaper or more available) and they end up with a destically different, usually weaker part.

A frame built badly can kill you, there are no shortcuts, moreso when trying for extreme light weight.

BTW, I am not dissing MECs work in any way, he is methodical, meticulous, well learned & willing to research what he is doing to the Nth degree, and is not willing to compromise in getting it right. That attitude however is not always present in a lot of people that, "Would like to build my own Frame"

I have done a fair amount of work for several framebuilders, and have a bit of insight into some of it. A guy I know stopped building his absolutely beautiful Alloy frames, mostly because of people modifying them or adding on to them, without re heat treating... bottom line is if he originally built it, it gets modded and screws up, its gonna look like it was his doing.. or his name gets dragged into the mes.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:08:32 am »

You disdain for

Quote

people that, "Would like to build my own Frame"

is quite apparent.

I'd rather not START with the assumption that the OP is a dumbass though.

mystic_1

754 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:21:46 am »

My disdain is for poorly built stuff, by people that go from Crawl to Run, by skipping Walking and Jogging..

Trust me on this, if they already know how to build a frame, why would they need plans?.. or even better, why not just build their own frame if they are so inclined..

It takes very little talent to copy an existing piece, but that is JMO.. & like all FREE advice.. worth what you paid for it..

mystic_1 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2009, 01:52:32 pm »

Yup, as I though, you seem to believe that only top most elite builders should be fabricating frames, and all others shouldn't even own their welders. It's a type of elitism I've seen before.

Quote from: 754 on August 25, 2009, 11:21:46 am

My disdain is for poorly built stuff, by people that go from Crawl to Run, by skipping Walking and Jogging..

Your assumption that the poster is one of these people is where I have the problem. For all we know this guy is an aerospace engineer with welding certificates fluttering the to the ground behind him when he walks. On the other hand he may be one of these guys that builds bikes out of black pipe using a coat hanger arc welder. Assuming either seems unreasonable though.

Quote from: 754 on August 25, 2009, 11:21:46 am

Trust me on this, if they already know how to build a frame, why would they need plans?.. or even better, why not just build their own frame if they are so inclined..

Maybe they....

Quote from: twowheellord on August 23, 2009, 11:57:35 am

would love to build a replica frame

The point of building a "replica" is to reproduce the appearance of something else. Maybe there aren't too many egli or bimota frames available anymore and building a "replica" is a viable option for some.

Quote from: 754 on August 25, 2009, 11:21:46 am

It takes very little talent to copy an existing piece

I disagree. It takes a lot of talent to make any usable frame.

You believe, it seems, that the only valid frame is one that has been engineered from scratch. Odd.

mystic_1

tinyrobot · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2009, 08:33:44 pm »

I'm happy to see this subject has welcomed the thread killers. The OP asked an honest simple question and it was taken as an open invitation to scrutinize his abilities with all of 1 post. Keep up the good work here, this should build the community in no time.

Oh, and if any one has a few Egli frames laying around like paper weights that they would like to let some of us "crawl over" feel free to them them my way.

754 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2009, 09:11:55 pm »

Mystic, let me ask you this..
If you built something, and building that thing is your bread and butter and sole income.. would you appreciate it, if someone copied it?

And what is wrong with making something new , and pushing technology, or creativity in a forward direction?

Now if someone said, I would like to build a custom frame, similar to XXX frame, but with a few changes to improve it, I would be behind them, all the way..

How many people do you know that have built their own frame?
Ask them if they needed plans (obtained from other sources)..

At the same time though, I dont want to see anyone get hurt either, and I have noticed stuff posted on this forum that is not built well or in a proper manner..

It DOES take a lot of talent to build a useable frame, but it take a lot more to build something new or to create new concepts..

mystic_1 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2009, 09:36:56 pm »

One main reason that replicas are built is that the originals are made of unobtanium.

Are new Egli frames available?

mystic_1

754 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2009, 09:48:40 pm »

They are probably tough to find..

maybe you should try contacting Egli and ask him for some drawings..

, pretty sure he would like that..

I talked to a framebuilder today, and we spoke briefly about a new type of frame /engine confiuration not yet done. To be honest though, I would never even consider asking him for drawings or specs on any of his frames.

I like sporkflys response near the start of the thread.

If you want to build a really neat frame that would be well recieved, build something along the lines of the never available 1100F, with the old 4 in it.. gobs of folks want something like that.,.

honda750k · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2009, 10:08:33 pm »

The biggest thing in frame building is comprehending you HAVE to be capable of making GOOD welds. Suzuki's GSXR line with its welded frames rather than cast is a prime example of WHY.

The other big thing is knowing how to set steering geometry so you have correct rake and trail, along with a proper size wheelbase, and make it of the correct material.

This isnt exactly an amateur project to undertake at all. its one that requires knowledge of fabrication and how to correctly make something.

NOW, that being said, you may be the best fabrication worker in the world, the guy that could break a screwdriver by just looking at it, or anywhere between those extremes. Assess your own skill accordingly and go from there.

Nobody I've ever seen sells plans to make frames, but if you can look at an original of what you're trying to make, and get measurements for all the things you need, you can create one, and improve upon the orignal design a little to make it better in some way.

I've seen and heard of, an actually know a person whose repair and fabrication skills are disturbingly unsafe, and whose final product could be, and probably IS potentially lethal if it fails.

BLUE71TURBO · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:01:14 pm »

How about this style ?

Gotta stay away from them "TERMITES"

MJL · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:26:22 pm »

Quote from: mystic_1 on August 25, 2009, 01:52:32 pm

For all we know this guy is an aerospace engineer with welding certificates fluttering the to the ground behind him when he walks.

I'd be scared of that guy. Too many engineers have no idea about the real world, all they know is how stuff is supposed to go together.

i'm sure there are good engineers, I just never hear about them.

MJL · « **Reply #21 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:33:38 pm »

I want a frame like this

I doubt that I can buy one, so I'll measure up a motor and wing it.

scunny · « **Reply #22 on:** August 26, 2009, 01:06:34 am »

read a book a while ago(sorry forget the authors name) he gave a good overview of frame geometry and how one thing affects the rest, this was from a purely racing point of view. anyway good luck in yor endevours

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Author Topic: Aftermarket frame diagrams (Read 2645 times)