Author Topic: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!  (Read 14552 times)

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Offline The_Crippler

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2009, 01:23:33 PM »
fishhead - That might have been one of the single most usefull posts I've read today.  Thanks.

Offline manjisann

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2009, 02:47:58 PM »
Fishhead, thanks for the info, I'm gonna put that in my thread with credit to you!

At this point I'm so sick of respraying my things I'm just gonna forgo the tack cloth. You very well could be right and even what I considered light pressure was too much  >:(

Well, I'm off to go and spray a coat of high build primer, let it set up, sand it, and hopefully get the tank sprayed all the way to the clear coat. I'll let you guys know how it goes without tacking it and if there are no fish eyes we'll assume I'm a nincompoop and was pushing too hard.

Brandon
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2009, 08:45:10 PM »
here's another thought- if you have any good friends who work at a hospital, ask for OR cloths.  In lieu of that (but more $$) use those squares of gauze you can get at the grocery store 1st aid aisle with some of that paint prep clean stuff.  Shouldn't have any lint to it at all, and when misted with the auto prep clean spray, should pick up minute dust particles, too.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2009, 02:39:29 AM »
Silicone :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( the baine of all painters ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)

Spot on Sam, silicone will screw a good paint job by filling it with fish eyes. I don't use tac rags at all, just wet sand, blow all the dust off with a clean rag and an air gun, then clean down again with wax and grease remover {prepsol} and add clear coat.

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Offline ColinMc

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2009, 08:40:01 AM »
The advantages of using tack cloths are great though if used properly and good ones are used...you'll never get the surface as clean with compressed air or any other means...

I understand being hesitant to use them...but you are MUCH likely to get a better finish...
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Offline manjisann

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2009, 10:26:52 AM »
I sprayed the sealer coat after using wax/grease remover and a tack cloth I had crumpled up and tried to use no pressure at all when applying. It did get some stuff up and the primer didn't fisheye, (does primer ever fisheye?)

We'll see what happens.

Brandon
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Offline luder

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2009, 10:48:49 AM »
Don't press on the tack cloths and if you get  fisheyes add a little DX73  (PPG fisheye eliminator) right away. If you get to many and there deep (to many coats over the existing fisheyes) your probably in for a repaint..........luder   aka Body Shop

Offline ColinMc

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2009, 11:21:31 AM »
If it helps at all, I always have the tack cloth folded over, and so it just fills and contours to the palm of my hand. I lightly wipe over the surface with it as if i'm dusting furniture.

The problem with compressed air for anything but just after doing heavy sanding is that you run the risk of creating more problems by getting a fine mist of oil/water on the surface...unless you run a prefilter just before the blow gun too...but even then...

Just remember like luder said, using fisheye eliminator can help, but you only use a TINY TINY bit...too much is a very bad thing. Can you post pics of your fisheyes if they do happen again...wouldn't hurt to get some opinions on whether they really are fisheyes or not.
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Offline fishhead

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2009, 01:02:46 PM »
Maybe a little late, but before even starting on the sanding of the old finish, you should wipe down the surface with wax/grease remover. If not, you could be sanding any contaminants into the surface, making them harder to remove later.

 Usually before painting (after prep), I would blow off the dust and then use a wax/grease remover (wipe on/wipe off with known clean towels/rags) and then pull it in the booth. It would then get wiped down with wax/grease remover again and blown off with the spray gun and then tacked off with a tack rag(usually twice).
 I dont think this project will be painted in a booth, but I hated re-doing paint jobs and more time spent in paint prep is less time re-doing.
  Make sure all the wax/grease remover is wiped completely off untill it is dry. I like to wipe it down more than once as the first cleaning may just loosen some stubborn contaminants and the second wipe down should get the surface completely clean. Flip the wipe off rag to get a fresh surface to remove the Wax/Grease remover. If not, you could be just rubbing the same stuuf that came off the surface back on the surface.

 Another point is when getting the wax/grease remover out of the can, don't put the rag on top of the can and tilt(swoosh) it to get the rag saturated. Pour the wax/grease remover on the the rag with out the rag touching the can(wash your hands first, too). The can may have oils, Napa stock boy boogers and who knows what else on the top of the can. If some one has sprayed some WD40/silicone near the can (somewhere along its journey to you) the WD/Silicone may get on the top of the can and be transfered to the wipe down rag and then to your surface.

 Fisheye Eliminators are OK and have a purpose, but should be avoided if possible (JMO). When you use FE, You're kind of covering up one problem with another potential problem as you will "more than likely" need to use FE on any subsequent coats (a bugger when you are doing a two tone) or repainting it down the road. Most painters hate FE.(off topic, kinda- years ago, the "city boys" would "wax" their car with Rain-X and it looked great but when repainted, it would fisheye like crazy and most Wax/Grease removers (or Lacquer thinner) wouldn't budge the Rain-X. Had to use alot of FE then. I would almost bet that 10 yrs later, the finish either looked like crap or was peeling off.)

   You can use tack rags on the base coat after it has dried enough. Use a gentle touch and you will be amazed at the "painting dust" that it will remove. By letting the base dry, you can also lightly wet sand any imperfections/dust down.  Another coat(s) of base would be needed to get the finish back to uniform. Using wax/grease remover on the base coat shouldn't be done as it can remove the paint that you just put on.

 By unfolding the tack rag, you have opened it up and have alot more surface area to get the dust off the surface. I usually would tack it off a few times (especially the smaller M/C parts) and unfold the tack rag to get a clean spot of the rag exposed for the 2nd/3rd tacking. Tack off the paint stands and the bottom of the parts also (after wax/grease remover on the backs/bottoms of the parts,too). Dont use the same wax remover rag on the top as you used on the bottoms.
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Offline manjisann

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2009, 08:03:09 PM »
This time around I crumpled up the tack rag and used almost no pressure to wipe it down and you are right, there is an amazing amount of dust. Question, when spraying metalic paint, the surface is rough so tacking is a bad idea right? I foolishly did this and I think it snagged and caused boogers in my candy coat. Oh well, it looks better than the fish eye's and I think I may luck out with a nib file, then again since it's in the candy coat it'll probably foul it up.

Point of interest, I am using a makeshift paint booth, you can see some pics of it in my paint thread if you're interested.

Kinda off subject, but since I obviously have knowledgable painters here. I want to paint a graphic on top of the clear coat. I know if it was fully cleared it wouldn't be a big issue, but since I just shot it tonight, it isn't. So here's the question, I can cut and buff after 9 hours of curing according to the tech sheet. I know if I wanted to spray another coat of clear over it I'd wetsand with 1000 grit and then let it offgas for 24 hours. Now here's my confusion. If I want to use fine line tape and frisket paper it's best to leave the surface glossy so the adhesive can be removed easily. I cut out the graphic, rough up the surface I'm going to paint and then using an airbrush spray on the paint. Once I've done that, I'll wait until the paint has flashed approx 30 mins and then remove the frisket and fine line tape and wet sand carefully around the art work and the rest of the tank. Since I'm supposed to wait 24 hours for it to off gas, but if I wait that long then the art work won't take the clear properly, what do I do? Does this make sense?

Thanks,

Brandon
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Offline fishhead

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2009, 06:41:23 AM »
The base coat should be relatively smooth. If there is enought roughness to grab your tack rag, it may be enough roughness to leave a nib in the final clear coat.
 You can put clear over the metalic base coat (it looks like you are using candy clears- tinted clear for the final clear coats). Using a clear(non candy) over the metalic base, wet sanding it and then applying the candy clear over top of it, it will give you more depth in the paint.
 
 Painting graphics.
 Wet sand the whole tank and lay out your graphics. Paint your graphics, remove the tape and then clear the whole tank.
 Go by the directions on the can (at least) and dont get in a hurry. Rushing it will cause errors. When in doubt, with the drying times/gas out, double them. Its alot better to find out you waited way to long for the surface to "gas out" then to find out you didnt wait long enough( and then have to re-do it).
 The people who sold you the paint should be able to give you more specific answers to their specific type/grade of paint. My answers are more generic and the directions on the cans are more aimed at the "home user" than the "automotive refinishing technition".




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Offline manjisann

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2009, 07:10:18 AM »
Quote
The base coat should be relatively smooth. If there is enought roughness to grab your tack rag, it may be enough roughness to leave a nib in the final clear coat.
 You can put clear over the metalic base coat (it looks like you are using candy clears- tinted clear for the final clear coats). Using a clear(non candy) over the metalic base, wet sanding it and then applying the candy clear over top of it, it will give you more depth in the paint.

Thats a really good idea, wish I would have known it prior to spraying the tank. I can at least use it on all the other parts. I'm hoping the fuzzy's sand out, I'll know today whether they will or not. I'm using candy tinted clear basecoat, not the urethane, just tossing that in there. I understand what you are saying though and it is a great idea.


Quote
Painting graphics.
 Wet sand the whole tank and lay out your graphics. Paint your graphics, remove the tape and then clear the whole tank.
 Go by the directions on the can (at least) and dont get in a hurry. Rushing it will cause errors. When in doubt, with the drying times/gas out, double them. Its alot better to find out you waited way to long for the surface to "gas out" then to find out you didnt wait long enough( and then have to re-do it).
 The people who sold you the paint should be able to give you more specific answers to their specific type/grade of paint. My answers are more generic and the directions on the cans are more aimed at the "home user" than the "automotive refinishing technition".

I'll give them a call just to double check, but I think I understand what you are saying, thanks!

Brandon


Sure it's for sale! How much you ask?? Well, how much are you willing to pay??? Now triple it, that's the price!

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1980 CB650 Custom
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Offline manjisann

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2009, 11:25:24 AM »
Do you know, is it better to remove adhesive residue on the wetsanded clear coat with wax/grease remover, or just wetsand it lightly?

I called them and they said that after 24 hours of curing I'm fine to wetsand and do artwork and reclear it without worry. Hopefuly he understood my question.

Brandon
Sure it's for sale! How much you ask?? Well, how much are you willing to pay??? Now triple it, that's the price!

1973 CB500 K2 - Sold the bike and bought a Mig, Miss the bike, Love the Mig :D
1980 CB650 Custom
1971 CB500 Frame 650 engine: Project

Trip and General Ramblings blog: manjisann.blogspot.com

Offline fishhead

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2009, 01:23:59 PM »
Wax/ Grease remover should be fine on a cured clear. Trying to wetsand it off may just smear it around and you really"should" clean the surface with wax/grease remover after wetsanding anyhow (hand oils,etc).
 Try a W/G on a small spot that wont be seen first to be sure it wont soften your clear.
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Offline manjisann

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGG Tack cloths can cause fish eyes!
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2009, 03:30:14 PM »
Thanks Fishhead, what the store said agrees with what you are telling me so that makes me feel better.

Brandon
Sure it's for sale! How much you ask?? Well, how much are you willing to pay??? Now triple it, that's the price!

1973 CB500 K2 - Sold the bike and bought a Mig, Miss the bike, Love the Mig :D
1980 CB650 Custom
1971 CB500 Frame 650 engine: Project

Trip and General Ramblings blog: manjisann.blogspot.com