Topic: 75 CB550 - eliminate key/ignition for switch?

[Dan K]

Hi,

I've got a 75 CB550 that I picked up for short $ as a project bike.  I got it with a clean title, but no key.  The previous owner managed to lose it.  I was told the bike runs, but one of the carbs "is a sink", whatever that means.  Maybe a float issue, maybe he means they're out of sync, I'll get to that once I get her fired up.  

Anyway, what I'd like to do is get it running first and foremost.  I figure first step (after draining fuel and carbs and putting in fresh gas, same with the oil) is the ignition.  I'd like to replace the entire key deal (which is hanging loose anyway) with a simple on/off switch, a la race bike.  Once I get the bike sorted I will likely change the bars, mirrors, etc. (all are very pitted) so at that point I'd decide if I wanted to go back to a key, or just stick with a hidden switch.

Going into the back of the ignition switch (is that the proper term for the part the key goes into to start the bike?)there are only 2 wires connected.  There’s a third wire cut off a ways down and a third tab on the back of the ignition, but as far as I can tell they have not been connected for a very long time, if ever.

Can anyone explain what each wire does, where it goes, or point me to a diagram?  I did search the forum but came up empty handed.  

I don’t care about an accessory mode, ideally I would just have a switch that turned everything from off to on and back.  I know newer bikes can have a bunch of wires going to the ignition, and require jumpers, relays, etc. in order to do this, but with only 3 contacts on the back of this ignition switch and only 3 wires in sight (2 of which are connected) I’m hoping/thinking this will be easy.  Then I can fire her up, see what the carb issue is and just how much work I’m in for here.  

Thanks,

Dan

[Laminar]

Your key switch should have four wires: Black, Red, Brown, Brown/White.

Turning the key on connects Black to Red and Brown to Brown/White.

Check out page 152.

http://depositfiles.com/files/uffzbj1fu

[oldhondarider]

Quick question:  Are you looking to make it switch starting cause you want the switch? or because you don't have the key...? 

You can pick up a new key assembly rather cheap... the old key assembly unplugs...and you plug the new one in....

[Dan K]

Your key switch should have four wires: Black, Red, Brown, Brown/White.

Turning the key on connects Black to Red and Brown to Brown/White.

Check out page 152.

http://depositfiles.com/files/uffzbj1fu

Thanks for the info.  I'll look again tonight, see what I've got.  Is the key on these just 2 position, on/off, with no accessory?  Can one of the 2 connections (black/red or brown/brown+white) be jumped permanently, wiring the other 2 into a switch, without draining the battery when the switch is off?

Unfortunately that link got flagged by my AV software & popped up with the typical "click here for virus protection" stuff.  I'll check it tonight from a Linux machine.

Quick question:  Are you looking to make it switch starting cause you want the switch? or because you don't have the key...?  

You can pick up a new key assembly rather cheap... the old key assembly unplugs...and you plug the new one in....

Mostly because I want to work on it this weekend.  I’m terribly impatient like that.  I like just having a switch as an ignition anyway, and if I ever feel the need to go back to a key I’ll still have the old one, or I can replace it.  I’ll likely end up needing to have a key made anyway for the bags, if I use them, and IIRC to remove the seat.  Right now I’m looking for an instant and inexpensive solution to get the bike fired up, and since I’ve always found the “switch instead of key” thing cool I figured I’d take that route.  

[Dan K]

One more question - how many amp switch will I need for this?

[Laminar]

Thanks for the info.  I'll look again tonight, see what I've got.  Is the key on these just 2 position, on/off, with no accessory?  Can one of the 2 connections (black/red or brown/brown+white) be jumped permanently, wiring the other 2 into a switch, without draining the battery when the switch is off?

Black/red is main power to the engine. Brown/Brown-white is power to the lighting. Connecting brown to brown/white will turn on your gauge lights, headlight, taillight, etc., so that can't be on all of the time. Connecting red to black will turn on your neutral and oil lights, allow power to the coils (if the kill switch is on), enable the starter, etc. That'd be like leaving the key on all of the time.

I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to bet you could find a single toggle switch that controls two circuits. I know lots of auto parts stores have key ignitions for $10 or so that might be able to do the job. Before I got the keys for my bike I just jumpered red to black on the back of the ignition switch so that I could get it running and everything.

Unfortunately that link got flagged by my AV software & popped up with the typical "click here for virus protection" stuff.  I'll check it tonight from a Linux machine.

Probably because of the website. It's the full CB500/550 manual, I uploaded it yesterday.

Mostly because I want to work on it this weekend.  I’m terribly impatient like that.  I like just having a switch as an ignition anyway, and if I ever feel the need to go back to a key I’ll still have the old one, or I can replace it.  I’ll likely end up needing to have a key made anyway for the bags, if I use them, and IIRC to remove the seat.  Right now I’m looking for an instant and inexpensive solution to get the bike fired up, and since I’ve always found the “switch instead of key” thing cool I figured I’d take that route.  

If you just want to get the bike fired up, jumper red to black like I said before. You don't need any lighting to do that.

Do some searching on keys - there's one site that sells NOS replacement Honda keys if you provide the code (use a 10mm wrench and undo your seat lock, it's stamped on there). There's also a PDF somewhere around here describing how to make your own key from a blank.

[Gorms]

I drained my battery yesterday by leaving the switch on, even though there were no lights connected, just the starter motor.  Keep in mind you can buy a new ignition switch from partsnmore.com for about $20.

[Cvillechopper]

You can potentially do some damage by having the ignition "permanently" wired, especially if you have to charge the battery.  Get a switch on there even if it's just a Radio Shack cheap toggle.

[mystic_1]

If you just want to get the bike fired up, jumper red to black like I said before. You don't need any lighting to do that.

+1

Do some searching on keys - there's one site that sells NOS replacement Honda keys if you provide the code (use a 10mm wrench and undo your seat lock, it's stamped on there). There's also a PDF somewhere around here describing how to make your own key from a blank.

also +1.  Your key code is a a letter followed by three or four digits, imprinted next to the key hole on all the locks.  Search that code on ebay and you'll find new keys for a few bucks.

I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to bet you could find a single toggle switch that controls two circuits.

Yes, if you do go this route you can wire in a DPDT switch (Double pole, Double throw) or a DPSP switch (Double pole, single throw).  this is basically two switches in the same housing controled by the same lever.  Make sure the contacts are rated to at least 30 amps and you'll be ok.



Someone here once mentiones his friend's home-brew electronic ignition lock.  To activate it you tapped a Morse code sequence into a spst switch.


mystic_1

[Dan K]

Black/red is main power to the engine. Brown/Brown-white is power to the lighting. Connecting brown to brown/white will turn on your gauge lights, headlight, taillight, etc., so that can't be on all of the time. Connecting red to black will turn on your neutral and oil lights, allow power to the coils (if the kill switch is on), enable the starter, etc. That'd be like leaving the key on all of the time.

Needing 2 out makes sense to me, but why the 2 in?  Wouldn’t it just be 12V in?  then the 3 wires I saw would make sense as well…  12V in, one out to lighting, one out to engine.  If I actually have 4 I will run it that way, but I think there was only 3, and it makes sense that way (12V in, 2 positions out to the 2 circuits).

I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to bet you could find a single toggle switch that controls two circuits. I know lots of auto parts stores have key ignitions for $10 or so that might be able to do the job. Before I got the keys for my bike I just jumpered red to black on the back of the ignition switch so that I could get it running and everything.

I have such a switch.  I’ll start that way.  Thanks.

Probably because of the website. It's the full CB500/550 manual, I uploaded it yesterday.

Cool.  I’ll get it tonight.  Thanks!

If you just want to get the bike fired up, jumper red to black like I said before. You don't need any lighting to do that.

I’d just feel better having a switch there.  It’ll allow me to run the bike in the mean time as well.  I actually have a couple double pole single switches, no reason not to throw a switch in there.

Do some searching on keys - there's one site that sells NOS replacement Honda keys if you provide the code (use a 10mm wrench and undo your seat lock, it's stamped on there). There's also a PDF somewhere around here describing how to make your own key from a blank.

Great to know.  I’m sure I’ll want one eventually for the seat, bags, etc.  In the mean time I just want to run a switch.  Doubt I’ll go back to a keyed ignition, but never know.

You can potentially do some damage by having the ignition "permanently" wired, especially if you have to charge the battery.  Get a switch on there even if it's just a Radio Shack cheap toggle.

I have a couple DPST switches, no reason not to use one.

Do some searching on keys - there's one site that sells NOS replacement Honda keys if you provide the code (use a 10mm wrench and undo your seat lock, it's stamped on there). There's also a PDF somewhere around here describing how to make your own key from a blank.

also +1.  Your key code is a a letter followed by three or four digits, imprinted next to the key hole on all the locks.  Search that code on ebay and you'll find new keys for a few bucks.

Sweet, thanks.  Will do!

I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to bet you could find a single toggle switch that controls two circuits.

Yes, if you do go this route you can wire in a DPDT switch (Double pole, Double throw) or a DPSP switch (Double pole, single throw).  this is basically two switches in the same housing controled by the same lever.  Make sure the contacts are rated to at least 30 amps and you'll be ok.

I’ve got a couple DPST switches that should do the trick.

Someone here once mentiones his friend's home-brew electronic ignition lock.  To activate it you tapped a Morse code sequence into a spst switch.

Sounds cool, but more hassle than I care to go through.  I’ll just hide the switch.  Bike isn’t parked in the city regularly or anything.

[Dan K]

What’s standard post etiquette here for multi-replies, anyway?  I noticed no multi-quote button (or missed it if it’s there).  Do you guys prefer multiple quotes in a single reply like I just did or 3 or 4 posts from me in a row, one replying to each of you?

[mystic_1]

Needing 2 out makes sense to me, but why the 2 in?  Wouldn’t it just be 12V in?  then the 3 wires I saw would make sense as well…  12V in, one out to lighting, one out to engine.  If I actually have 4 I will run it that way, but I think there was only 3, and it makes sense that way (12V in, 2 positions out to the 2 circuits).

The stock ignition switch has two positions, ignition + lights, or taillights only (Park position).  In the Park position power for the taillight comes directly from the batters, in the ON position power for the tail light comes from the lighting circuit (brown/white wires) so that's the reason for two inputs.

mystic_1

[Dan K]

Needing 2 out makes sense to me, but why the 2 in?  Wouldn’t it just be 12V in?  then the 3 wires I saw would make sense as well…  12V in, one out to lighting, one out to engine.  If I actually have 4 I will run it that way, but I think there was only 3, and it makes sense that way (12V in, 2 positions out to the 2 circuits).

The stock ignition switch has two positions, ignition + lights, or taillights only (Park position).  In the Park position power for the taillight comes directly from the batters, in the ON position power for the tail light comes from the lighting circuit (brown/white wires) so that's the reason for two inputs.

mystic_1

Gotcha.  Thanks

[mystic_1]

On most wiring diagrams there's a little chart that shows how the terminal are connected in the various switch positions, that should help you plan your mods.

For standard running I'd switch between BAT and IGN and hard wire TL1 to TL2, this will give you ignitions and lights, but you won't have the "parking light only" function anymore.

mystic_1

[Dan K]

On most wiring diagrams there's a little chart that shows how the terminal are connected in the various switch positions, that should help you plan your mods.

For standard running I'd switch between BAT and IGN and hard wire TL1 to TL2, this will give you ignitions and lights, but you won't have the "parking light only" function anymore.

mystic_1

Sounds right to me.  I'll know more when I can d/l that manual.  So basically I'm going to need to find a +12V in (red maybe?), jump it to both sides of the switch, and then connect the wires to lighting & engine to the other 2 contacts (brown/white & black?).  I don't think I've ever used a parking light only mode on a bike anyway, I won't miss it.

[Cvillechopper]

If you have 2 fuses you'd want to use the 2 different inputs.  Running everything off the single power means you'll be pulling juice for the lights and the coils through the same fuse.  Some bikes run with just the 1, other have separate fuses for the lights.   

[mystic_1]

No, you'll want one +12 in to the switch's BAT terminal, that's all.  The TL1 and TL2 terminals should just be jumpered.

Here's the connection diagram from a 750.  Position 1 is "On" and position 2 is "Park".

mystic_1

[mystic_1]

Here's the wiring diagram for your bike, available on the main website in the 550->Technical->Electrical section:



click for larger image.

mystic_1

[Laminar]

Here's the wiring diagram for your bike, available on the main website in the 550->Technical->Electrical section:

click for larger image.

mystic_1

That looks like it's from a Clymer's. I wouldn't trust it (headlight switch anyone?). Especially since I already posted the actual Honda manual with a wiring diagram specific to his year.

[mystic_1]

The ignition switch connection diagram is correct on that wiring diagram.

mystic_1

[shizzomynizzo]

I use a switch on mine, for the same reason as you...too impatient and wanted to get it going when purchasing. I have a 74 550 and also had 4 wire going to the ignition. I bought a 30 amp switch from autozone and connected the red to black to do the same as turning the key to on. I have a switch to turn the lights on and off on the handlebars, (don't all sohc's?)

I ran the switch under the seat, so you still need a key to start it and turn it off.

hopefully you already figured it out by now, but if not, hope this helps.

[Laminar]

I have a switch to turn the lights on and off on the handlebars, (don't all sohc's?)

Neither of mine do.

[Dan K]

Thanks for all the help.  All the wiring worked out fine.  I've got a switch wired and everything works.  I pulled a bowl off a carb and there was some sludge in there, so I started pulling the carb bank.  They'll all be getting a good cleaning before I fire it up, avoid sucking that sludge into the engine.  Just quit ~1AM for the night.  Bike is apart, electrical is done, air box is free.  Just need to separate the bank from the engine, clean the carbs and throw it back together.

I do have 2 more questions in the mean time.  they don't really apply to the thread title anymore, so I don't know if I should start new threads or just ask here, so I'll start here.  I'll start with the electrical question, at least.

1) The front blinkers stay on solid rather than blinking.  No rear blinkers on there yet, so I'm not sure if that could somehow be the cause?  If not, where should I start looking for the cause for this?

2) Completely unrelated to the thread title, but is there any way to GP shift these things?  The shifter comes right off the shift shaft like a dirt bike, and without linkage I don't see how I could rig a GP shift.  Anyone done that and care to share how?

Thanks for all the help so far!  Looking like I should be running tomorrow (or later today, as the case may be).

[mystic_1]

1) The front blinkers stay on solid rather than blinking.  No rear blinkers on there yet, so I'm not sure if that could somehow be the cause?  If not, where should I start looking for the cause for this?

The blinker relay is a thermal relay, it relies on current draw to operate.  So, not having rear blinkers can cause this.  Try wiring in a bulb where the rear blinkers belong and see if the blinkers blink.

2) Completely unrelated to the thread title, but is there any way to GP shift these things?  The shifter comes right off the shift shaft like a dirt bike, and without linkage I don't see how I could rig a GP shift.  Anyone done that and care to share how?

If you mean reversing the shift pattern to one-up-four-down, someone here posted pics of a linkage setup that does this.  I don't know of a way to to it without such a linkage.

Glad you got your switch sorted.

mystic_1

[IndyFour]

Your key switch should have four wires: Black, Red, Brown, Brown/White.

Turning the key on connects Black to Red and Brown to Brown/White.

Check out page 152.

http://depositfiles.com/files/uffzbj1fu

Thank you for posting this!!  I've been looking all over the damn place for this manual!  All of the links in the FAQ seem to be dead and my Clymer manual is a waste of time.  Bless you my friend!