Author Topic: smallest battery to retain starter? (Read 3598 times)

verboten1 · « **on:** August 30, 2009, 06:08:41 PM »

What would be the smallest capacity AGM battery I could get away with and still retain the ability to use my starter sometimes.

the bike kicks over pretty easy, but some days I don't feel like being "cool" lol

bucky katt · « **Reply #1 on:** August 31, 2009, 02:18:29 AM »

i wouldnt even try using anything but the stock size battery. the charging system and batteries on these bikes are just barely enough. i actually modified the battery box in my k4 750 to take a larger battery.

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2009, 03:07:27 AM »

Didn't Rob (voxonda) have a really neat battery solution he'd come across recently?

nippon · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2009, 05:33:13 AM »

Hawker EnerSYS SBS8,...one of the strongest, smallest, best and horrible expensive batteries.

http://www.gotbatteries.com/index.php?mfg=Hawker&make=Enersys&model=SBS8&m=search&fID=SL200&sID=36L200S1

Dimensions: 5.40"L x 3.40"W x 4.00"H
Weight: 5.9 Pound(s)

I use one in my 750 K1,...I had to put an 3" high polystyrene under the battery in order to reach the cables.
I never thought about the battery the last three years.
And I paid half of the current price.

nippon

voxonda · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2009, 05:47:14 AM »

Quote from: lordmoonpie on August 31, 2009, 03:07:27 AM

Didn't Rob (voxonda) have a really neat battery solution he'd come across recently?

Thanks LMP,

For this the B4600, like the Hawker expensive, but very light and small, <900 grams and 114 x 62 x 81 mm. I use the even smaller B2300 but have no starter. These batteries are used in both World Supersport and Superbike championships by several teams.

Cheers,

Rob

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #5 on:** August 31, 2009, 07:47:33 AM »

Rob,

So without your starter is this battery enough to run the bike up and say do a couple of races without going flat? The reason I ask is that with my startin gproblems I think I might go back to battery power and if so, I want as small a battery as possible to hide it from view...where do these batteries come from?

Pltfn · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2009, 07:58:53 AM »

If anyone is interested in trying a smaller battery without incuring much expense here is the one I plan to use shortly. It may not work with a starter but I figured I would give it a shot. Hell, for this price I can fit two in my BCR Battery Box and still come in way under the cost of the R1 battery he recomended.

http://www.apexbattery.com/sonnenschein-cr125-battery-sealed-lead-acid-batteries-sonnenschein-batteries.html

-Kelly

voxonda · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2009, 08:40:13 AM »

Quote from: lordmoonpie on August 31, 2009, 07:47:33 AM

Rob,

So without your starter is this battery enough to run the bike up and say do a couple of races without going flat? The reason I ask is that with my startin gproblems I think I might go back to battery power and if so, I want as small a battery as possible to hide it from view...where do these batteries come from?

Hey LMP,

Have ridden 2x 20 min sessions with it so far. No problemo. These batteries can be fully charged in 15 min(!)
I am dealer of these batteries, so you can buy directly from me if you want.
Batteries are Dutch and used by Ten Kate Racing and others.

Rob

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2009, 08:49:01 AM »

Well unless a person has starting issues, a smaller battery should not be a problem. The starter does not drain 14 amps in 2 seconds. I doubt it uses 7 amps in 2 seconds either. I will try a rebel battery sometime and see what happens. It is MUCH smaller and spins an electric starter.

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2009, 10:01:27 AM »

Quote from: voxonda on August 31, 2009, 08:40:13 AM

Hey LMP,

Have ridden 2x 20 min sessions with it so far. No problemo. These batteries can be fully charged in 15 min(!)
I am dealer of these batteries, so you can buy directly from me if you want.
Batteries are Dutch and used by Ten Kate Racing and others.

Rob

Thanks Rob - as soon as I get the CR going on battery power I'll let you know if I decide to go down that route and we can talk some more!

TwoTired · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2009, 10:46:30 AM »

FYI, the starter draw varies up to 120 Amps. It does this as long as the solenoid engaged and power is available.

The stock battery will provide this for about 2-3 minutes depending on the motor's resistance to turning over.
Lot's of variables in this calculation; battery state, oil viscosity, Compression ratio, engine wear, and temperature of engine and battery, etc.

There is more to batteries than just AH rating. Starting batteries usually have a CCA (cold cranking amps), which gives you an idea how long it will deliver power and maintain its voltage high enough to spark the ignition.

If the battery doesn't have a CCA rating, it is not intended for that purpose and there are no guarantees when putting it in a starter motor functional role. You can then find one that works (for a while) by trial and error.
Using a smaller than required battery in such a role, shortens its service life, relational to its depth of discharge and frequency of discharge cycles. So, you might wind up with a smaller battery that you replace twice (or three times) as often, depending on the abuse the battery receives.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2009, 12:28:50 PM »

Well there is no real test for life expectancy though. You could take 2 identical batteries and the life can be different. Regardless, I have been using the 5 year old battery from my rebel all day now with multiple starts. It is a 7 amp battery. My system is stock using a halogen bulb. Voltage after each run has been good and I have used the electric each time starting.

Of course this does not test overall life of a battery but then there really is not perfect test for that anyways but it does clear that in mild traffic, if the system is working right, a smaller battery can be used with the starter. Now this IS on a 77 750 so the results on the earlier 750 may not be the same.

ken736cc · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2009, 01:17:51 PM »

Hi, Ken from Orient Express here.

We can now supply Speedcell Batteries. These are working very well in a variety of bikes. Not cheap, but proven technology.

http://www.orientexpress.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=speedcell&osCsid=3febfdc1e1903f2b2a63c304cc093810&search_in_description=1&x=2&y=6

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #13 on:** September 01, 2009, 12:47:44 PM »

Day 2 has revealed no issues yet with a smaller battery. keep in mind this battery is 5 years old.

motocyconomad · « **Reply #14 on:** September 01, 2009, 01:53:05 PM »

Quote from: ken736cc on August 31, 2009, 01:17:51 PM

Hi, Ken from Orient Express here.

We can now supply Speedcell Batteries. These are working very well in a variety of bikes. Not cheap, but proven technology.

http://www.orientexpress.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=speedcell&osCsid=3febfdc1e1903f2b2a63c304cc093810&search_in_description=1&x=2&y=6

that looks like one serious battery

Really? · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2009, 02:06:36 PM »

It is tiny too. $160 though.

bistromath · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2009, 04:32:04 PM »

Oh those are awesome. Lithium ferrous cells with a built-in charger to supplement the regulator on your bike. A123 cells -- that's the company that does the battery systems for lots of electric cars. I have a friend on the East Coast doing engineering for them.

bistromath · « **Reply #17 on:** September 01, 2009, 06:43:08 PM »

Hey, I was wrong. They're just bare LFP cells from A123. Make your own for $80 or so. Try 3 in series x 3 in parallel for a 9 cell pack, gives a 12V 9Ah pack that weighs in at 3lbs. Usually they cost around $8/cell on eBay. You could do 3 series x 2 parallel for a 6Ah pack that weighs a kilo.

HawaiiMike · « **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2009, 04:20:53 PM »

Is there anything new in the search for small batteries? I'll need a new one soon and would like an AGM. As long as it fits in the battery box and doesn't cost more than a used bike I'm interested.

Happy Thanksgiving!

754 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2009, 08:28:50 PM »

I used to sell a lot of what we called small square batteries, I think the number is 12N 5.5A or similar.

A popular choice in choppers and HDs..

Anyway, they fit in 750s, you will have to shim up with a 2x4 and shim front to back.

Like the OP says, he does not want to use e-start all the time..

Well I have run them with stock motors, planning to kickstart all the time, but found in warm weather, with bike warmed up, it will actually e-start quite easily.... they are like 30 -40 bux..

Unlike the pig I am riding now that wont kickstart, unless I turn the lights off, it charges when I rev it up , but is not holding much in the stock size battery.. which was new this summer...

wannabridin · « **Reply #20 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:10:20 PM »

go to a local interstate betteries. i went there with the dimensions i'd like and told the guy there i wanted the most powerful AGM they had. about $50 later, i had on with more than enough CCA's for my needs. i'll look when i get home next and see what the model number is. but it's quite a nice unit. i just need to put it in the bike now, haha

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Author Topic: smallest battery to retain starter? (Read 3598 times)