Author Topic: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals  (Read 2316 times)

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Offline Pinhead

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The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« on: September 03, 2009, 10:01:40 PM »
Quote
I’m dozing, as I often do on airplanes, but the guy behind me has been broadcasting nonstop for nearly three hours. I finally admit defeat and start some serious eavesdropping. He’s talking about food, damning farming, particularly livestock farming, compensating for his lack of knowledge with volume.

I’m so tired of people who wouldn’t visit a doctor who used a stethoscope instead of an MRI demanding that farmers like me use 1930s technology to raise food. Farming has always been messy and painful, and bloody and dirty. It still is.

http://www.american.com/archive/2009/july/the-omnivore2019s-delusion-against-the-agri-intellectuals

I just thought I'd spread this around. It truly seems that almost every article I read in any non-agricultural magazine complains about the way farms are run. They complain of the evils of fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, and other chemicals and the methods in which they are used. It doesn't necessarily offend me that "they" are trying to tell "us" how to do our job. What really gets me is the fact that they have absolutely no #$%*ing clue what they're talking about. The article above agrees with me.
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2009, 10:18:18 PM »
Hey Pinhead, I'm right with you.  It's not enough to chuckle at little kids telling their parents milk doesn't come from cows, it comes from 'the store'.... we have adults who think that either their McDonalds burger came from a farm that keeps its cows on the pus-filled brink of death, or that their  'organic, hormone-free, free-range' beef came from happy, chunky, smiling cows in open grassy pastures.

...that without pesticides, we can very easily use just ladybugs (!) or special varieties of said crop (but not genetically modified! just... different types?) to grow a bounty reliably.  

*cough*bull#$%**cough*

Every method is going to have its drawbacks.  I personally dislike the idea of chickens raised where they need to have their beaks clipped, etc, but if I was serious about that, I'd probably forego chicken until I could raise some in my back yard.

The only really 'natural' meat anyone is ever going to have is what they hunt and shoot themselves, but I don't see that being very likely, either.

The heart of the problem is that demand is so much higher than it ever was.  Where I grew up, it used to be a farming community.  Family farms all a mile or two down the road from each other, each family with about a hundred head of cattle.  Some for beef, but more often for dairy.  (we're still talking WI here) but as of late it's become unprofitable to be a farmer there anymore.  Working full time on the farm and putting in a shift at the local foundry has become the norm for those still farming.  Others have sold their farms to the big 'company farms' and lament the loss.  Such is life, though.  If the big man can produce more and cheaper, the little guy, with his high costs and relatively lower productivity and slimmer profit margins, is going to be gone.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2009, 10:23:40 PM »
I work for a corporation that not only supports, but helps to create regulations for organic standards, but I completely agree with your sentiment.  Most people who ramble on at length on the topic have no clue what they're talking about.  

The culture we've created around having fresh produce at any time of the year, regardless of the seasonality of the produce we're buying, has had at least as much of a negative impact as the farming practices used to grow it.  

The focus should be more on purchasing local, seasonal produce than on how the food is grown.  

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2009, 10:26:03 PM »
...you do know, Gordon, that most vegetarians in the midwest would starve over the winter, right?

...waaaaaiiiit a minute.  This could be a very, very good thing!  Go locavores!
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Offline Gordon

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2009, 10:35:42 PM »
...you do know, Gordon, that most vegetarians in the midwest would starve over the winter, right?

...waaaaaiiiit a minute.  This could be a very, very good thing!  Go locavores!

The whole concept of being a vegetarian has always bothered me.  I would respect a true vegan's beliefs much more than any vegetarian's I've ever met, although I have yet to ever meet a true vegan.  It's virtually impossible to be a true vegan and still live in modern society.  And most vegetarians are just fooling themselves, anyway.   

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2009, 11:10:46 PM »
My friend Lisa the vegan ;D at the start or our recent canoe trip in the BWCA.  It is a big effort but she manages to stay true to her beliefs.  I actually adapt to her diet on the trip as it is easier that way though I do bring a few eggs, a little beef jerky for a snack, and may catch a fish or two.  She can paddle and portage a canoe better than most men I know.

Offline demon78

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2009, 09:34:07 AM »
Watched a video about sustainable farming and a meal after wards, claimed the they were behind the 100 mile concept they even posted recipes, and lo and behold the recipe for the meal included olive oil, interesting, I didn't know the the Toronto area boasted of olive groves (they of course boast of many things)I thought it was too cold .
Bill the demon

Offline Caaveman82

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2009, 10:26:29 AM »
The problem isn't how the farming is conducted. It is that it is conducted. I am anti-agricultural revolution. Great thechnological break through but that's it. It's done nothing good for us. Hunter gathering is what we created for, you wonder why some people act so primal? That's their TRUE human instincts showing.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2009, 12:26:44 PM »
Meh, the problem is with big corporate farms, steroids/antibiotics/hormones in everything we eat, high fructose corn syrup, genetically altered crops that don't allow harvesting of seeds and too much fertilizer and pesticides to make the damn crap grow.
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Offline Pinhead

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2009, 12:38:21 PM »
Meh, the problem is with big corporate farms, steroids/antibiotics/hormones in everything we eat, high fructose corn syrup, genetically altered crops that don't allow harvesting of seeds and too much fertilizer and pesticides to make the damn crap grow.

Read the article. This is what the argument is all about.
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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2009, 12:55:06 PM »
Our farming market here (US) is not sustainable the way the market demands.
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Offline Pinhead

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2009, 02:03:53 PM »
Our farming market here (US) is not sustainable the way the market demands.

I believe the operating phrases is "the way the market demands." The demand for food is constantly on the rise along with operating expenses, and yet commodity prices are pretty damn close to being the same as they were in the 70s. Think about fuel and energy costs. The food supply would not only be unsustainable, it would collapse if the types of changes as discussed in the article were to be forced upon farmers.
Doug

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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2009, 03:49:58 PM »
Well... there ARE 6.8 billion people in the world... if we had 1930s populations, 1930s style sustainable production methods would be just fine and dandy.
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Offline Tretnine

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2009, 06:13:45 AM »
Our farming market here (US) is not sustainable the way the market demands.

We do eat a very meat oriented diet. Meat is very resource intensive and is the source of lots of pollution. Lots of pasture plus all that field corn and other crops as feed. Besides that other things are better for you. It's not hard to change your diet while doing your colon and heart a favor. I still eat meat, I just try to eat a little less, better for the environment better for me. I'm going to try to break 60 without a heart attack. Given my genes, I should not eat whatever I want.
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Offline bucky katt

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2009, 06:39:11 AM »
i'm not a farmer (right now) but i have worked at it in the past. i love to hear those people go on and on about the evils of pesticides and big farming operations but those same exact people would be whining twice as loud when their food prices went sky high and the average american could no longer afford to buy even the staples because farming was done they way they so loudly proclaim it should be.
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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2009, 06:47:21 AM »
i'm not a farmer (right now) but i have worked at it in the past. i love to hear those people go on and on about the evils of pesticides and big farming operations but those same exact people would be whining twice as loud when their food prices went sky high and the average american could no longer afford to buy even the staples because farming was done they way they so loudly proclaim it should be.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I worry about pesticides and hormones, etc., but my wife and I decided that we're willing to increase the amount we spend on groceries so we eat healthy. We try to be conscious, but it is expensive and difficult. We're by no means obsessed with the 'organic' movement, but we try to be aware of what we're eating. Not obsessed, just aware and making an effort. I think it's more important than most people seem to.

Edit:

I think there has to be a middle ground here. People tend to think one way and be very inflexible once they decide what they believe.
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Offline Steve_K

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2009, 10:32:14 AM »
I used to dairy farm with my father in the 60's-70's and I am wondering why genetically enhanced cows are needed.  Milk prices are low so I suppose a cow that can give more milk for same amount of food is good.  Farmers could rule the country if they could band together and demand the price they need.  Won't happen.  They are too independent to work together.   Fuel prices shot up last year and food prices jumped.  Explain why the food prices stay higher longer than the farmers price.  Good Grief!!  Got on my soapbox. Sorry.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2009, 10:58:43 AM »
I'm willing and do pay more for the non-rgbH/antibiotic milk and other organic foods I do purchase.
And I think most people are willing to pay more if they know what they are getting for the higher prices.
 
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Offline Gordon

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2009, 02:12:13 PM »
I'm willing and do pay more for the non-rgbH/antibiotic milk and other organic foods I do purchase.
And I think most people are willing to pay more if they know what they are getting for the higher prices.
 

I think you may be giving most people too much credit. 

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2009, 05:53:15 PM »
I'm willing and do pay more for the non-rgbH/antibiotic milk and other organic foods I do purchase.
And I think most people are willing to pay more if they know what they are getting for the higher prices.
 

I see it both ways, many not willing to pay the extra but enough seem to be willing in our county that
I know a few farmers making it without becoming "industrial farmers". I'm not a fan of the big corporate farm.
I have a farm and we pretty well raise our on food (pretty much organically, no pesticides or chemical fertilizers). Though with the house building this year the meats we've had to buy from the store. I have noticed a willingness among many in our county to contract for meat. The farmer doesn't really own the cow or pig but raises it for the owner. This cuts out the usda when the meat is butchered. I will be exploring this route for farm income in the next few years.

Would this work on a large scale given the size of our cities. Now that would be a logistical nightmare or at least a big
change. It seems to work from what I hear in European countries. It would mean more small farms with open air markets
in and near the cities. I personally don't want to live in our too near a city. ;)

As a side note, I do not understand the need for corn syrup in just about every food product on the shelf in a grocery store. What's wrong with sugar? It seems to me I've recently read that the corn syrup is not converted by our bodies
and in fact is detrimental to our health whereas sugar is processed readily and when eaten with some common sense cause no health problems.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: The Omnivore’s Delusion: Against the Agri-intellectuals
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2009, 06:43:30 PM »
corn syrup is a cheaper sweetener than sugar, hence its ubiquitous use in food.
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