Topic: Might America become a 3rd world country?

[Uncle Ernie]

Looking at the news tonight, and thinking about history.  Several highly evolved and developed civilizations have come and gone.  Now we have wild, passionate arguments against the President of the United States speaking to school kids about doing well in school.  Fears of indoctrinating kids to- well, I'm not sure what they would be indoctrinated to.  Studying? 

So I'm watching news about the war in Afganistan, and how China is now ahead of the USA in photo electric and wind energy production, and the knee jerk political crap, and I'm thinking

   Are we becoming warring tribes? 

Is this country on it's way to becoming incapable of doing anything?  Is it going to get worse?   Am I nuts?

[myhondas]

Yea, I watched the same news broadcast. Personally, I think that 95% of our problems lie with the legislative branch, 3% with our judicial branch and 2% with our executive branch. BUT....100% of our inability to get anything done lies with the people. We can't agree on anything when it really counts. And guess when that is ......when we elect the people that fill the above positions.....I don't want to turn your question into a discussion of politics, but we are responsible for what is leading us down the path of third world dominance.

[gregimotis]

I was listening to somebody (financial radio show) telling us we should be investing (not that I'm investing much anyway) in foreign stuff because within a few years the US gov will be unable to pay even the interest on it's debts.  We will have to print increasing amounts of money and thus devalue the dollar.  This was the next major financial crisis in his humble opinion.

[Frankenkit]

At times I wonder if the infighting will worsen and we'll form our own versions of the Taliban and other dominant sub-groups based on religious or other ideals. 
Life will go on, but it'll be interesting to see in which direction.

[demon78]

I think part of that problem is that no political type can get elected with out fudging the truth (lying) and the expectations of the people is that they are going to be lied to, your system and ours require politico's to owe so much to others just to get into office that they can't be straight.
Bill the demon.

[tramp]

every great civilization has fallen
the us is no different
we need to get more involved with our government
all we do is work and sleep

[CBGBs]

Lots of good comments. I do think we are sliding fast. Perhaps someday we will revert back to the principles of our early history and rise again. That would be a new direction.

[JS550]

Lots of good comments. I do think we are sliding fast. Perhaps someday we will revert back to the principles of our early history and rise again. That would be a new direction.

I like this idea. Sounds more realistic. However, & Im sure this will start a whole new discussion, with religion involved the 3rd world U.S. could happen. Orginized religion is one of the biggest problems in the world, in my opinion. But I do believe history shows it to be fact. NO, Im not saying you have to be an athiest, but come on. Look at the 3rd world, alot of the reasons they are 3rd world is due to religion.

[andy750]

Look at the 3rd world, alot of the reasons they are 3rd world is due to religion.

I would disagree with this statement. Id say the reason there is a 3rd world is due to the economic dominance of the Western world keeping the 3rd world underdeveloped. Hard to get ahead when you have huge loans crushing you. That and one-sided trade agreements keep a country back while the other prospers. The dollar has been the dominant currency in the world for decades now and this has dictated growth in other countries. Nothing to do with religion.

cheers
Andy

[JS550]

So.....putting women in jail for wearing pants, not letting them go to schools, beheadings and such are because the west has a hold on the worlds economy? How much money is BinLaden worth? Maybe the oil rich countries should help out the other poor countries? Alot of 3rd world counties dont want to advance technologically or economically. Its not %100 because of religion, but that plays in to it. 

[andy750]

So.....putting women in jail for wearing pants, not letting them go to schools, beheadings and such are because the west has a hold on the worlds economy?

I dont think not allowing women to wear pants has much to do with these countries being poor  . And if you are talking about capital punishment with regard to beheadings (as opposed to terrorist beheadings which is a different ballgame entirely) then how much different is this compared to the US and the many forms of the death penalty -electric shock, lethal injection etc...

Alot of 3rd world counties dont want to advance technologically or economically.

Is that right? Now which countries wouldnt want to advance technologically or economically? You mean they would rather play in the dirt and remain poor? I dont think so...

Its not %100 because of religion, but that plays in to it.  

No thats your right wing talk radio thats playing that up....ironic as these same people would claim to be neoconservative white Christians..... You could say the same about the mid-West for example. How much does religion affect politics and economics in that region? Think Kansas, Ohio, Missouri etc...places where they still want to keep the 10 commandments on the wall of the court....now that is scary!

cheers
Andy

[JS550]

Well as far as the US death penalty you at least get a trial. And, those aren't Innocent people? (usually!lol)  And YES, I would say that about a lot of the U.S, not just the Midwest, about religion. Shouldn't be involved in politics. And yes, there are countries that view advancements in a negative way, and choose to live simpler. No, the people probably dont want to stay poor & play in the dirt, but the government that is in place in those countries want to keep them that way. And in some of those countries, they are ruled by religion. Which, if we're not careful, is gonna happen here. Already has to an extint. Don't get me wrong, I believe we, the U.S has its faults. But I don't believe that every poor country is the U.S fault. Crushing loans? Look at the our dept. I agree with the right wing radio statement. But, I would think my statements on religion to begin with would show my thoughts on the right wing. But I think we went off topic a bit.

[myhondas]

 

No thats your right wing talk radio thats playing that up....ironic as these same people would claim to be neoconservative white Christians..... You could say the same about the mid-West for example. How much does religion affect politics and economics in that region? Think Kansas, Ohio, Missouri etc...places where they still want to keep the 10 commandments on the wall of the court....now that is scary!

cheers
Andy

The reason that they want to keep it on the wall and on our money and such is the FACT that this country was founded on a belief in GOD and yes, most were christians, but they made sure that everyone could worship however they wish as long as it doesn't keep someone else from doing the same. What has gone wrong is that some who do not believe in God or are not christians, wish to remove any reference to God even though it is a basic principal of our system. Don't get me wrong. I am not a bible thumping religious person. But I believe that we need to leave our country's founding principals alone. Hate to admit it, but if even 30% of the country would live by those 10 items, this place would be 100% better than it is. IMHO

[martini]

As an outsider looking in it seems to me that most of the division that exists in the US is due to the increasing strength of the Christian right wing. For a supossed secular country those people seem to weild a great deal of influence - its scary.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yea, I watched the same news broadcast. Personally, I think that 95% of our problems lie with the legislative branch, 3% with our judicial branch and 2% with our executive branch. BUT....100% of our inability to get anything done lies with the people. We can't agree on anything when it really counts. And guess when that is ......when we elect the people that fill the above positions.....I don't want to turn your question into a discussion of politics, but we are responsible for what is leading us down the path of third world dominance.

The problem with this country is that none of the branches controls what really happens anymore.

The banking cartels and a few elite families have assumed control of our government through various organizations: CFR, Bildeberg, Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank, Trilateral group, Carlyle Group. We go to war where they tell us to and bail out corporations when they tell us to.



The joke is truly on us because most people believe that we live in a republic- and that is the furthest thing from the real truth.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

We are becoming a country of followers, not independent thinkers. Perhaps the masses feel lost and need to fit into a "group". This seems to me to be leaning more toward extremes with less moderation. Polarization of our masses. It will probably continue it's downward spiral. This could be Republican, Democrat, religious, etc. I consider this akin to 3 organized gangs. No more, no less. Why the hell can't we just be Americans? (for those of us in the USA).

Case in point would be the fear mongering relating to our President's pre-published non-partisan pep talk to the future of our country, the school children. Many of our country's children were not allowed to see this in their schools. Pure unadulterated (actually ADULTerated in this case) censorship! I consider that un-patriotic! Our children will inherit this country. It is their future. They need to be able to develop their own open minds. I just hope that the followers of what I consider radicals like the criminal, drug addict, doctor seeker Rush Limbaugh, etc (yeah, I said it, it's true) which took the stance of Democratic brainwashing actually took the time after Obama's speech to view it and see it for what it actually was. If they didn't, they really need to. Open your eyes, open your mind. My 12 year old daughter did not get to see it at school but sat down at her computer and viewed it last night. She was impressed.

 

     

[andy750]

+1 Jerry - well said!

The reason that they want to keep it on the wall and on our money and such is the FACT that this country was founded on a belief in GOD

The United States was NOT founded on a belief in God. The phrase "God Bless America" was inserted in the 1950s during the McCarthy era...The "Founding Fathers" as some may call them wrote the Constiution not on a belief in God (they had already seen the damage done by religion) but on humanist principles that were in vogue at that time - the Scottish Enlightenment was the popular with Bejamin Franklin who went to Paris and studied there. There are many elements of it in the Constitution.

Your statement is the very reason people should be worried about religion in America. The impression you give is that somehow the USA is Gods country or the the Chosen country or some other BS like that. Its not. Its a very nice place to live and some of the people believe in God and some dont. The ones that dont, have no desire to see the 10 commandments plastered everywhere in a secular government building instructing you how to live your life. Religion should be practiced quietly and no forced on others. If you dont want to live in a secular country go and live in Iran,  Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc...


** Ill edit my own post - as usual it depends on interpretation - here is an interesting article on the role of Christianity and the Constitution:

http://www.rbvincent.com/usconstitution.htm

I have nothing more to add so Ill leave it there. Interesting discussion nonetheless.

cheers
Andy

[Duke McDukiedook]

The real people in power want to take away the US's ability to manufacture things, they know that creates a middle class with power.

Look around you, they are intentionally dumbing down our public schools and taxing us more and more, sending away our jobs until we have nothing but the ultra rich and the peasants. Slavery by implied consent.

People will have the illusion of freedom and embrace the fascism we are quickly heading towards.

They don't care because they know no matter how bad it gets here the "haves" will always be taken care of- it's built into the central banking system- they make money loaning the government it's own money.

They could give two #$%*s less about everyone else.

 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

+1 Andy (from ultra conservative right wing Republican HIGHLY religious Colorado Springs home to over 100 of the world's religious organizations). Seems a Scottish boy has an unbiased view from the outside.

+1 Martini!

Folks, look to the rest of the world. It's not our (the USA's) world! We need to fit into the scheme of things. It's a global thing. The world has gotten MUCH smaller in the present future.

Now I don't care what you believe in just as long as you believe in something and hopefully that something is yourself!
Just "don't tread on me". I'm an independent thinker. I don't follow a Pied Piper!

[coldright]

Not to mention that this country was founded on a distinct separation of church and state.  The authors of the constitution (another can of worms, I'll leave the bill of rights discussion for later) were well aware of the problems created by a government and church in collusion.   

[sangyo soichiro]

You mean they would rather play in the dirt and remain poor? I dont think so...

Amish

[sangyo soichiro]

The reason that they want to keep it on the wall and on our money and such is the FACT that this country was founded on a belief in GOD

The United States was NOT founded on a belief in God. The phrase "God Bless America" was inserted in the 1950s during the McCarthy era...The "Founding Fathers" as some may call them wrote the Constiution not on a belief in God (they had already seen the damage done by religion) but on humanist principles that were in vogue at that time - the Scottish Enlightenment was the popular with Bejamin Franklin who went to Paris and studied there. There are many elements of it in the Constitution.

Your statement is the very reason people should be worried about religion in America. The impression you give is that somehow the USA is Gods country or the the Chosen country or some other BS like that. Its not. Its a very nice place to live and some of the people believe in God and some dont. The ones that dont, have no desire to see the 10 commandments plastered everywhere in a secular government building instructing you how to live your life. Religion should be practiced quietly and no forced on others. If you dont want to live in a secular country go and live in Iran,  Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc...

cheers
Andy

+10⁶

[coldright]

You mean they would rather play in the dirt and remain poor? I dont think so...

Amish

As far as I know the Amish are, most definitely, not poor...

[JS550]

Damnit I hate when I end up in posts about something other than CBs on here! Yet I allow myself to do it. I too bow out of this. Im going for a ride!
One more thing, Thats a great avitar coldright!

[BobbyR]

The US is going through a diffcullt time at the moment, but it will come back. So far we have the longest run in History. There is a battle between the Religious Right and the rest of us. This will sort itself out in time. They are losing their grip quickly. Americans hate to take orders, they can be lead by easy money, but that is over. Now the questioning begins, this year we have more local candidates challenging the entrenched politicos. They are talking reform and careful spending.  

The US is a technological powerhouse, Industrial production for some items has left and the shift to offshoring jobs is beginning to reverse. The best minds come here to work and will continue to. The US brain drains the rest of the World. This is the real secret to the US being so successful, people came here for a chance to succeed, and they did. They continue to come from Asia, less European than in the past. Nonetheless they are hungry and Entrepreneurial.  

Many Companies are finding that doing business in the Third World is not working out. The Chinese are having problems, much bigger than they admit, but a poll shows the average citizen there is having doubts.

Will the US look different in the next 100 years, of course it will, the World will not spin backward for anyone. Once we get back to the basic principles, which we are, it will be fine. Borrowing is down and savings are up, it is more like the 1950's, people are getting real, they are starting to brag about economizing rather than spending. When the job market stabilizes a new US will emerge.

We have three climate zones, a skilled workforce, excellent Universities, and people willing to come here with fire in their bellies to make it. How could we not succeed.