Topic: Might America become a 3rd world country?

[gregimotis]

To go in a somewhat different direction, a friend suggested this change to help clean up politics (don't know if it was an original idea):


'Only entities which can vote in an election can contribute to said election.'


Think about this for a second, Exxon could not contribute to campaigns.  They could send lobbyists and such, but those people couldn't write checks so where would their influence come from.

The NEA could not contribute either.  The NRA, The AARP, Phizer.  The CEO of Merck could contribute to the presidential election, but not to the house/senate races outside his state.

Merck give give people money and ask them to contribute to campaigns, but only after they paid taxes on it

Organizations could run their own political ads and could 'get out the vote', but they couldn't quietly send million dollar checks to every politician in the country.


Think about how radically this one rule would alter our landscape (never mind for a moment that it would never pass, just let that slip by).

[BeSeeingYou]

   I find myself going against the conventional wisdom with the belief that the U.S. economy, the largest and most dynamic in the world, will weather this latest rather large bump in the road.  China's economy after all is only a fraction of what ours is but it will continue to grow and in 20 years it may be more of a challenge.  And whether they like it or not our good neighbors to the north are linked at the hip with us as we have more in common economically and culturally than we have differences.  As one goes so goes the other.  I think Mexico is also part of the equation and eventually we will see a closer integration of the Canadian, Mexican, and US. economies and this will provide us the muscle to compete with the Chinese and the E.U. in the future.
     We also need to stop spending 40 percent of our budget on the military.  We don't need to be policing the world while other countries grow fat under the U.S. protective umbrella.  this is a huge debate in itself but I will leave it at this.
     I think our biggest challenge will be how we handle the coming demographic shift in this country.   We are starting to see the tip of the iceberg with the election of Obama and the reaction by a small but very vocal part of the conservative movement.   The Birther movement is one example.  These people are almost unhinged and no amount of logic or fact seem to be able to penetrate.  The future shifts that will make the white majority the minority has some on the conservative side frightened to put it lightly.  All this seems to emanate form the conservative wing of the Republican party as the reality is setting in that while they may win a few over the next eight years the longterm outlook is very bleak for this party if it continues on it's present course due to the coming demographic shifts.  There is more talk of guns, revolution, and taking back what is ours as if they are the only true Americans.  It reminds me of an exchange I had recently with a member who shall remain nameless.  He posted a comment but quickly withdrew it but not before I had seen it, boasting of looking forward to the when the time would come where he could get his gun out and start shooting.  The word domestic terrorist comes to mind and we may see more of this type as time goes on.  The time may soon be here when militant members of the conservative movement are more a threat than the Muslim terrorists.  Think Tim McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing.  This guy was steeped in militant right wing racist dogma that seems to be re merging.
     

[Duke McDukiedook]

The people who run this country will continue to divide the people with things like race, class, sexism, fascism and tons of other -isms until we thouroughly hate each other to death-literally.

Until we collectively figure out that we are all "one" and wake up to the fact that we are all keepers of our own destinies, they will continue to divide and conquer us and keep us in their servitude.

You guys need to stop buying into this whole false left-right paradigm and see this political landscape for what it really is- rigged to "appear" to be a two party system when in reality we have two parties that essentially serve the same master.

And it ain't "We the people" that are the master.
 

[Ingrid]

Look you guys and gals, not to put fuel on this conversation but the current economic and world situation is finally bringing home to Americans that there IS a WORLD outside of US. For years and years the US has made their own rules. Hell, the United States may even (ok probably not) invade the Netherlands if there are US military incarcerated for war crimes in The Hague.
US has as much problems right now as do the EU and some other regions. I know, I'm sitting at home due to the economic crisis, but we'll all fight through. I personally just hope the difference between so called first, second and third world countries might just level out a bit. Might save us all some trouble in the future.
OK rant over.

[edbikerii]

You've been watching too much TV, Ernie.

Wild, passionate arguments?  Where?  I haven't had or even heard about one single argument about that speech.  I read the text beforehand and said, "no harm here", and I didn't have a problem with my kids watching it.  It is a waste of time for Obama to tell my kids how important school is, since MY KIDS ALREADY KNOW, but maybe there are some out there who will benefit from hearing it FROM OBAMA.  Those people NEED that speech, so it is a good thing.

Who cares if China is "ahead of the US" in solar-electric and wind production?  How does that matter to any average American?  First of all, how do we know that is even true?  Who went out there and measured it, and what is their bias?  What is their motive for publishing such numbers?  How do the Chinese stack up on a per capita basis?  How much more oil and coal are the Chinese burning than the United States?  Are the Chinese ahead of us in nuclear power?  Are they ahead of us in technology?  Are they ahead of us in curing cancer?  How about the sweat shops, human trafficking, and child labor?  THE CHINESE HAVE GOT US BEAT THERE.  Why not focus on things that make a difference?

No, despite all the fear-mongering that goes on here in the media, the world as we know it isn't coming to an end anytime soon.

The sun will come out tomorrow.

I remember back in the 1970's those stupid apocalyptic movies like "The Late, Great Planet Earth" trying to scare everyone into some crazy different direction because of the impending nuclear war due to the "arms race".  In 1989 the question was, "what arms race"?  Does anyone else remember the term "nuclear winter" being thrown about when they were in school?  Damn, that's a helluva lot worse than "global warming", isn't it?

The people love a good crisis, mythical or real.  Note these quotes:

"Rule 1: Never allow a crisis to go to waste," White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel told the New York Times right after the election. "They are opportunities to do big things." Over the weekend, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton told members of the European Parliament, "Never waste a good crisis." Then President Obama explained in his Saturday radio and Internet address that there is "great opportunity in the midst of" the "great crisis" befalling America.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-goldberg10-2009mar10,1,1162545.column

Also, many of us remember how Ronald Reagan benefitted from the oil crisis of the late 1970's, the Iran/Iraq war, and the Soviet Union crises, as well as how George H. W. Bush's popularity was through the roof after Iraq I, and George W. Bush's popularity skyrocketed after 9/11/2001.

Looking at the news tonight, and thinking about history.  Several highly evolved and developed civilizations have come and gone.  Now we have wild, passionate arguments against the President of the United States speaking to school kids about doing well in school.  Fears of indoctrinating kids to- well, I'm not sure what they would be indoctrinated to.  Studying? 

So I'm watching news about the war in Afganistan, and how China is now ahead of the USA in photo electric and wind energy production, and the knee jerk political crap, and I'm thinking

   Are we becoming warring tribes? 

Is this country on it's way to becoming incapable of doing anything?  Is it going to get worse?   Am I nuts?

[Frankenkit]

Looks like the cavalry's here.

[Ingrid]

hi

[Frankenkit]

Ingrid, I agree with your sentiments 100%. 

[Duke McDukiedook]

And Clinton with Bosnia Ed, don't forget Clinton and Bosnia.

Meet the NEW boss, same as the old boss, and the boss before that.

Move along people, nothing here to see except the dismantling of the middle class here, move along.

[Frankenkit]

Our politicians have learned that all it takes to get elected is to woo the middle class and scare the old folks into believing their whole way of life will be whisked away.  

The American mentality of 'more and better' would work very well if we were a 2nd world country.. .but as a supposed 1st world nation, we wallow in excesses and regard new and different things with a creepy air of xenophobia.

My ultraconservative parents have expressed the feeling that the nation would be better if "both extremist coasts would just drop off the map."

I agree.  I think the midwest might be better off becoming its own nation.  Surely their belief systems will carry them through anything.

[Spanner 1]

Americans and the very scary 'outside world'....OMG !! I wish more Americans would get a passport and travel to see how other democracies work ( yes, there are democratic countries, hundreds of them, outside the U.S. ! ). Protected, navel-gazing, fake patriotic views have way outrun their usefullness and are no help in understanding the Global economy the U.S. has been forced by this economic crash to face-up to..... speaking of Americans ' overseas ', it would be a nice thing if travelers would drop their superior attitudes while outside the U.S. Case in point, several college students, from fundamentalist Southern Rep. families, planned a trip to Ireland this summer after Graduation. The cultural differences they encountered were very mild indeed, but the 'stress' of slight unfamiliarity brought out the 'best' in them to where they decieded to trash their rental car, drive it across fields yee-haa style, BECAUSE they were Americans and BETTER than the their hosts..I was told this first hand and in a 'joking' manner by one of the returning travellers.. These are the educated, next gen. of business and powerful people, nothing changes, very sad......

[BeSeeingYou]

You've been watching too much TV, Ernie.

Wild, passionate arguments?  Where?  I haven't had or even heard about one single argument about that speech.  I read the text beforehand and said, "no harm here", and I didn't have a problem with my kids watching it.  It is a waste of time for Obama to tell my kids how important school is, since MY KIDS ALREADY KNOW, but maybe there are some out there who will benefit from hearing it FROM OBAMA.  Those people NEED that speech, so it is a good thing.

Who cares if China is "ahead of the US" in solar-electric and wind production?  How does that matter to any average American?  First of all, how do we know that is even true?  Who went out there and measured it, and what is their bias?  What is their motive for publishing such numbers?  How do the Chinese stack up on a per capita basis?  How much more oil and coal are the Chinese burning than the United States?  Are the Chinese ahead of us in nuclear power?  Are they ahead of us in technology?  Are they ahead of us in curing cancer?  How about the sweat shops, human trafficking, and child labor?  THE CHINESE HAVE GOT US BEAT THERE.  Why not focus on things that make a difference?

No, despite all the fear-mongering that goes on here in the media, the world as we know it isn't coming to an end anytime soon.

The sun will come out tomorrow.

I remember back in the 1970's those stupid apocalyptic movies like "The Late, Great Planet Earth" trying to scare everyone into some crazy different direction because of the impending nuclear war due to the "arms race".  In 1989 the question was, "what arms race"?  Does anyone else remember the term "nuclear winter" being thrown about when they were in school?  Damn, that's a helluva lot worse than "global warming", isn't it?

The people love a good crisis, mythical or real.  Note these quotes:

"Rule 1: Never allow a crisis to go to waste," White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel told the New York Times right after the election. "They are opportunities to do big things." Over the weekend, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton told members of the European Parliament, "Never waste a good crisis." Then President Obama explained in his Saturday radio and Internet address that there is "great opportunity in the midst of" the "great crisis" befalling America.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-goldberg10-2009mar10,1,1162545.column

Also, many of us remember how Ronald Reagan benefitted from the oil crisis of the late 1970's, the Iran/Iraq war, and the Soviet Union crises, as well as how George H. W. Bush's popularity was through the roof after Iraq I, and George W. Bush's popularity skyrocketed after 9/11/2001.

Looking at the news tonight, and thinking about history.  Several highly evolved and developed civilizations have come and gone.  Now we have wild, passionate arguments against the President of the United States speaking to school kids about doing well in school.  Fears of indoctrinating kids to- well, I'm not sure what they would be indoctrinated to.  Studying? 

So I'm watching news about the war in Afganistan, and how China is now ahead of the USA in photo electric and wind energy production, and the knee jerk political crap, and I'm thinking

   Are we becoming warring tribes? 

Is this country on it's way to becoming incapable of doing anything?  Is it going to get worse?   Am I nuts?

While I don't disagree with much here except the first paragraph.  Where were you the last week Ed?  It was all over the news if you paid attention.  Our own Gov. T-Paw here in Minnesota was complaining about it and then toned it down after the text came out.  Did you listen to Rush at all or many of the other conservative talkers.  I think Rick Perry in Texas was off the deep end too.  How about the man on the street interviews where the parents were going to hold their kids from school so they would not be exposed to the President. Now I think the whole thing was a set-up by the Dems to make the Repubs look foolish but that's politics.  Not all fell into the trap as I remember Newt being supportive and also Bill O'Riley and Laura Bush.  I am sure there were others too.

[edbikerii]

No, I don't watch the "talkers".  They are all full of #$%* -- on both sides.

I did see Newt Gingrich on Sunday morning's "meet the press" or whatever that show is called, and he said that we should just relax and read the text before jumping to any pre-speech conclusions.

[Ingrid]

Thanks Kit.

I do believe, if one has a good idea, you can capitalise on it. I don't know i just wish I had a brain fart.

[edbikerii]

Hate to tell you this, but we're not all morons like your friends there.

Americans and the very scary 'outside world'....OMG !! I wish more Americans would get a passport and travel to see how other democracies work ( yes, there are democratic countries, hundreds of them, outside the U.S. ! ). Protected, navel-gazing, fake patriotic views have way outrun their usefullness and are no help in understanding the Global economy the U.S. has been forced by this economic crash to face-up to..... speaking of Americans ' overseas ', it would be a nice thing if travelers would drop their superior attitudes while outside the U.S. Case in point, several college students, from fundamentalist Southern Rep. families, planned a trip to Ireland this summer after Graduation. The cultural differences they encountered were very mild indeed, but the 'stress' of slight unfamiliarity brought out the 'best' in them to where they decieded to trash their rental car, drive it across fields yee-haa style, BECAUSE they were Americans and BETTER than the their hosts..I was told this first hand and in a 'joking' manner by one of the returning travellers.. These are the educated, next gen. of business and powerful people, nothing changes, very sad......

[BobbyR]

Yes the Sun will come out tomorrow. The current Recession proved that the Economies of the World are indeed tied together. So many Countries invested here foolishly and they helped fan the fire and now many are almost broke.

The Chinese have their fingers crossed that the US will pull out of this quickly since they own so much of our debt, they go down the tubes if we did. We are also their biggest customer. The rest of the World cannot take up the slack when 300M customers are gone. So, they need us more than we need them.

I was totally disgusted when I heard that Parents were asking their children be excluded from watching an address by the President of their Country. This was fueled by knuckleheads on the far right including the Pumpkin head Junkie Limbaugh. How dare they disrespect the Office of the President in that manner over something trivial.

I am a middle of the road Republican and have been since 1971. I am now rethinking my Party membership as I am finding my beliefs are no longer represented.

I agree that campaign financing needs an overhaul, no Corporation should be allowed to contribute to a Candidate or Party.

I also agree that the rest of the World needs to take more resposibility for their own security, we have plenty of arms we can sell them.

[Uncle Ernie]

Ed, I guess maybe I do watch too much TV.  Especially Sunday mornings.  Now, it's all discussions about speculation and what the "pundits" think might happen to something or other.  Really and truely- I miss Tim Russert more than my father.  He called it like it is, and didn't let interviewees get away with namby-pamby BS sidestepping and obfuscation.

Anyway, I see on TV how we're in a war all the time while private security companies (American mercenaries) make big money and do what they like and Americans are getting paid to do a job and we at home say thank you for being a patriot and protectiing our country while it seems to me that political extremists are putting us in the middle of our own civil war.

I also predict that some day water will be worth more than gold or oil and instead of making money from energy alternatives we rely on the same ol' same ol' developers to build more ticky-tacky with more water hook ups while much of the country has a recent history of drought.  I don't care if it's global warming or who's fault it is- it's a fact that the South has been dangerously low on water.  So has the West.

I wouldn't think about any of these things if I stopped watching the 6 O'clock news.  It has been a nice opportunity for some interesting post count boosts.

[Uncle Ernie]

Almost forgot;  several schools around here did not show the President's speech to kids, or had seperate screenings for kids who got special permission to see it, and some parents took their kids out of school for the day.  According to the local news.

[Frankenkit]

...but didn't George HW and Regan both do speeches (or at least in Regan's case, a question-answer session) with school age kids, also?  People need to stop acting like children if they expect their children to grow to be intelligent, capable adults.

[coldright]

I highly recommend living without a television and mainstream news.  I'm a much happier person.  Still educated, still informed, just happier without the depressing nonsense.

[Frankenkit]

...but then would you ever feel the need to contribute to these politically heated "discussions"? They go on and on with no real point or ending or consensus.  They're great!

[Duke McDukiedook]

I pooped a sweet Cheney (terd blossom)  last night... it felt reeel good.  

[sangyo soichiro]

I highly recommend living without a television and mainstream news.  I'm a much happier person.  Still educated, still informed, just happier without the depressing nonsense.

+10⁹!

I'll go a step further and claim that you are more educated and more informed if you replace TV with reading.

My TV never comes on unless I want to watch a football game.  Sports may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's the only thing on TV that's real.

No TV means no expensive cable bill (I watch my football on the free airwaves - or else it gives me a reason to go to the bar).  I save $70+/month.  I will rent movies and documentaries (usually from the library) when I feel like just sitting in front of an illuminated box. 

I read a lot more.  In the last year and a half I've read about 80 books, probably more.  On all sorts of subjects, whatever catches my fancy.

I listen to radio if I need a media fix.  Sure, I have to filter the conservative talk with my moderate mindset, but there are some really good radio shows too.  "Coast to Coast" is mostly a ghost/UFO/remote-viewing/crackpot show, but it's very entertaining, and the host (George Noory) is without a doubt the nicest guy in talk radio.  Jim Bohannon's show I like too - he's slightly right of center (as opposed to fundamentalist/extremist like the rest seem to be), but unlike the rest, this man is truly intelligent.

Anyway, giving up TV ranks among the best things I've ever done.

[medic09]

To go in a somewhat different direction, a friend suggested this change to help clean up politics (don't know if it was an original idea):


'Only entities which can vote in an election can contribute to said election.'


Think about this for a second, Exxon could not contribute to campaigns.  They could send lobbyists and such, but those people couldn't write checks so where would their influence come from.

The NEA could not contribute either.  The NRA, The AARP, Phizer.  The CEO of Merck could contribute to the presidential election, but not to the house/senate races outside his state.

Merck give give people money and ask them to contribute to campaigns, but only after they paid taxes on it

Organizations could run their own political ads and could 'get out the vote', but they couldn't quietly send million dollar checks to every politician in the country.


Think about how radically this one rule would alter our landscape (never mind for a moment that it would never pass, just let that slip by).

That is one of the most sensible ideas I've heard in a long time.

[myhondas]

AND  TERM  LIMITS ! ! !